Should sabz stay | Page 6 | Vital Football

Should sabz stay

Should sabz stay

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Apollyon said:
I had a week away, and didn't even watch the Stoke game as I thought we would lose and was right.

We need to keep Sabri. He was dealt a fucking terrible hand at the very start of his employment. With space being made in the squad, we need 3-4 quality additions. If we need to sell, I would shift Ribeiro, Figuerido, Sow, Yates, Walker and Clough. I think we need to keep hold of Cashy and Joe. We definitely need a new CB, CM and CF.

I hope we get 3-4 players in and a couple of decent loans.
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Not sure about Ribeiro, the rest, yes.
 
Paul Taylor's article for The Athletic today states that the owners do not intend on sacking Lamouchi and they will be holding further talks with him over the next couple of days to determine if he is up for a second season himself.

Also states that big changes to the playing staff are planned and there is a serious review underway regarding recruitment in January.

Other snippets are that if the chap from Monaco were to join then he would not be involved in recruitment, there is interest in Grabban from Qatar and the club may be willing to accept a bid for one of Cash or Worrall if a suitable offer is received.
 
AdebolaCornflakes said:
Paul Taylor's article for The Athletic today states that the owners do not intend on sacking Lamouchi and they will be holding further talks with him over the next couple of days to determine if he is up for a second season himself.

Also states that big changes to the playing staff are planned and there is a serious review underway regarding recruitment in January.

Other snippets are that if the chap from Monaco were to join then he would not be involved in recruitment, there is interest in Grabban from Qatar and the club may be willing to accept a bid for one of Cash or Worrall if a suitable offer is received.
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I would hope that it has not taken 7 days to make that decision.

The only benefit of not being in the playoffs is that it gives us one week's advantage in preparation for next season over those that are. It would be disappointing if we squandered that on the most basic questions.

I also wonder whether the Watford situation needs resolving or whether there even is anything to resolve on that one.

I would be disturbed in the extreme if they sold Grabban at this stage. I think we are all scarred by three transfer windows of utterly failing to sign a striker worthy the name, of a whole summer with nothing but Rafa Mir to show for it.

I can't see us being able to do anything other than take a punt on goalscorer who will develop. Guarenteed goals cost money; Grabban was fairly cheap by modern standards for the goals he produces. You want to sign a striker with potential while you still have your reliable goalscorer. The lower leagues are littered with clubs who did it the other way and got burned (Ipswich being a good example)
 
Pope John XXIII said:
I would hope that it has not taken 7 days to make that decision.

The only benefit of not being in the playoffs is that it gives us one week's advantage in preparation for next season over those that are. It would be disappointing if we squandered that on the most basic questions.

I also wonder whether the Watford situation needs resolving or whether there even is anything to resolve on that one.

I would be disturbed in the extreme if they sold Grabban at this stage. I think we are all scarred by three transfer windows of utterly failing to sign a striker worthy the name, of a whole summer with nothing but Rafa Mir to show for it.

I can't see us being able to do anything other than take a punt on goalscorer who will develop. Guarenteed goals cost money; Grabban was fairly cheap by modern standards for the goals he produces. You want to sign a striker with potential while you still have your reliable goalscorer. The lower leagues are littered with clubs who did it the other way and got burned (Ipswich being a good example)
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I read the article and it looks like educated guesswork.

How does he reconcile the Club having two plans, one for promotion and one for play off failure and then claim that they only had minor tinkering in mind?

The lack of mental strength issue was known before the last game; Lamouchi alluded to it in previous articles; it is inconceivable that plans to remedy this are an afterthought like he claims.

I can well believe the bit about Grabban but letting him go would be a massive gamble; they need his replacement at the Club for at least a season before they consider letting him leave; there is also the possibility that Grabban could be using this to get a contract extension; if that is the case it should not take more than 30 seconds for the Club to realise how much we need him.

You would assume that Lamouchi is staying put; he comes across as someone who would have no difficulty in standing his ground at any inquest; if anything he would be capable of turning the events to his advantage, giving him a bigger say in any future transfers.

Taylor claims the Club want to assess Lamouchi's mental state and whether he is shell shocked; that should not take too long; he comes across as a fighter, some one who would use the capitulation as a motivation.

I would not be too bothered about the Watford rumours; Lamouchi seems to have other motivations other than money; he came on a years contract wanting to know if the Club and him was a good fit and he appears to be settled.
 
mao tse tung said:
I read the article and it looks like educated guesswork.

How does he reconcile the Club having two plans, one for promotion and one for play off failure and then claim that they only had minor tinkering in mind?

The lack of mental strength issue was known before the last game; Lamouchi alluded to it in previous articles; it is inconceivable that plans to remedy this are an afterthought like he claims.

I can well believe the bit about Grabban but letting him go would be a massive gamble; they need his replacement at the Club for at least a season before they consider letting him leave; there is also the possibility that Grabban could be using this to get a contract extension; if that is the case it should not take more than 30 seconds for the Club to realise how much we need him.

You would assume that Lamouchi is staying put; he comes across as someone who would have no difficulty in standing his ground at any inquest; if anything he would be capable of turning the events to his advantage, giving him a bigger say in any future transfers.

Taylor claims the Club want to assess Lamouchi's mental state and whether he is shell shocked; that should not take too long; he comes across as a fighter, some one who would use the capitulation as a motivation.

I would not be too bothered about the Watford rumours; Lamouchi seems to have other motivations other than money; he came on a years contract wanting to know if the Club and him was a good fit and he appears to be settled.
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So Taylor has direct access to the mental health department at Nottingham Forest then? Load of bollocks.
 
With regards Lamouchi, he just signed a new 2 year extension. We know he wants to be at the club, and the club wanted him here. Hence the new deal.

The final run in was farcical. No doubting that at all, and the nature of that final Wednesday evening was enough to change minds. But only really in the short term. Once you've reflected, calmed down, come to terms with it? You accept it and carry on with the original plan.

If Lamouchi can keep progressing the team next year the way he did this year, we will be in a good spot. Our defense was rock solid until latterly into the season, and if we improve the attacking element then our defensive solidity will improve without making any changes to the defence, since their workrate will go down and they aren't under pressure for 80 minutes of a 90 minute game.

The big unknown here is - was the style of play dictated by Lamouchi or by the squad at his disposal? The only way to find that out is to have another summer for him to shape a team, improve the attack and see where it takes us.
 
mao tse tung said:
I read the article and it looks like educated guesswork.

How does he reconcile the Club having two plans, one for promotion and one for play off failure and then claim that they only had minor tinkering in mind?

The lack of mental strength issue was known before the last game; Lamouchi alluded to it in previous articles; it is inconceivable that plans to remedy this are an afterthought like he claims.

I can well believe the bit about Grabban but letting him go would be a massive gamble; they need his replacement at the Club for at least a season before they consider letting him leave; there is also the possibility that Grabban could be using this to get a contract extension; if that is the case it should not take more than 30 seconds for the Club to realise how much we need him.

You would assume that Lamouchi is staying put; he comes across as someone who would have no difficulty in standing his ground at any inquest; if anything he would be capable of turning the events to his advantage, giving him a bigger say in any future transfers.

Taylor claims the Club want to assess Lamouchi's mental state and whether he is shell shocked; that should not take too long; he comes across as a fighter, some one who would use the capitulation as a motivation.

I would not be too bothered about the Watford rumours; Lamouchi seems to have other motivations other than money; he came on a years contract wanting to know if the Club and him was a good fit and he appears to be settled.
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Mental strength is one of the most difficult things to coach. You either tend to have it or you tend not to have it or you might develop it after a significant personal event.

You would think that's something the recruitment team ought to be looking at, but I guess if you're still getting paid a wage, it's just much easier to sign who your agent mates tell you to sign than to do any real investigative work.
 
ZedRed said:
Mental strength is one of the most difficult things to coach. You either tend to have it or you tend not to have it or you might develop it after a significant personal event.

You would think that's something the recruitment team ought to be looking at, but I guess if you're still getting paid a wage, it's just much easier to sign who your agent mates tell you to sign than to do any real investigative work.
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strangely it can come from losing....ive found as a sportsman ive learnt more about myself and team from losses rather than winning

hopefully the management use this failure as a tool to make sure we dont capitulate again
 
Southern red said:
strangely it can come from losing....ive found as a sportsman ive learnt more about myself and team from losses rather than winning

hopefully the management use this failure as a tool to make sure we dont capitulate again
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It might have worked for you Southern but it never ever did the same for me. And after giving it a bit of thought I reckon that mostly it pinpointed the best and worst players in the side and probably places where as a team we could do better.
 
I notice an absence of quotes from anyone in a position of importance at Forest in relation to this breaking news.

It looks like the media reporting this have just rehashed Taylor's article from this morning - unless there is something out there I have missed

I gather there is another meeting next week of the hierarchy; maybe we will hear something after that.
 
ZedRed said:
Mental strength is one of the most difficult things to coach. You either tend to have it or you tend not to have it or you might develop it after a significant personal event.

You would think that's something the recruitment team ought to be looking at, but I guess if you're still getting paid a wage, it's just much easier to sign who your agent mates tell you to sign than to do any real investigative work.
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That is correct; other than visiting a sports psychologist I am not sure what coaching is available in that field.

I once went to a talk by Peter Taylor; he put great emphasis on signing players with a winning mentality down to his and Clough's success.

He was asked how he could tell if the player had a winning mentality when he was scouting them.

I am not sure he was entirely candid with his response but he said it was quite easy; he would look at how the player conducted himself when the player and the team were under pressure, if the player maintained his discipline, if his tackling got erratic and how he organised the players around him.

He spoke about pressure quite a bit especially in relation to a players passing ability; he claimed it was the first thing he looked for in a player; can he pass accurately when he is under pressure; he said anyone can pass when they are not under pressure - he claimed jokingly to be a great passer of the ball when he played even though he was a goal keeper
 
mao tse tung said:
That is correct; other than visiting a sports psychologist I am not sure what coaching is available in that field.

I once went to a talk by Peter Taylor; he put great emphasis on signing players with a winning mentality down to his and Clough's success.

He was asked how he could tell if the player had a winning mentality when he was scouting them.

I am not sure he was entirely candid with his response but he said it was quite easy; he would look at how the player conducted himself when the player and the team were under pressure, if the player maintained his discipline, if his tackling got erratic and how he organised the players around him.

He spoke about pressure quite a bit especially in relation to a players passing ability; he claimed it was the first thing he looked for in a player; can he pass accurately when he is under pressure; he said anyone can pass when they are not under pressure - he claimed jokingly to be a great passer of the ball when he played even though he was a goal keeper
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We have one of, if not the best squads with mental strength and last season proved it. What cost us is SL game plan and negative tactics and selections for the final 6 games. I wanted him out, but agree with most now that consistency is key over this shortened summer, and glad we are having a root and branch review on recruitment.
However, if SL cannot adapt his game approach and philosophy he will be gone after 10-12 games and rightly so. Better recruitment, SL to have a say in this, but he needs a 180 change from what we witnessed last season to get over the line. If he can't do that, he's gone by Nov 1st
 
finbar70 said:
We have one of, if not the best squads with mental strength and last season proved it. What cost us is SL game plan and negative tactics and selections for the final 6 games. I wanted him out, but agree with most now that consistency is key over this shortened summer, and glad we are having a root and branch review on recruitment.
However, if SL cannot adapt his game approach and philosophy he will be gone after 10-12 games and rightly so. Better recruitment, SL to have a say in this, but he needs a 180 change from what we witnessed last season to get over the line. If he can't do that, he's gone by Nov 1st
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Sorry finbar but I think you're wrong with all of that.
 
I do think we have at times shown a great deal of resilience. Going to places like Brentford, Leeds etc and saying here you think you're good with the ball let's see if you're better with it than we are defending. As we've blunt their attacks it's put pressure on the opposition that we frequently capitalised upon.

Undoubtedly there is room for improvement, both at home and in the last 5 minutes but we've pretty much put ourselves under the microscope each week and largely come through well.
 
mao tse tung said:
That is correct; other than visiting a sports psychologist I am not sure what coaching is available in that field.

I once went to a talk by Peter Taylor; he put great emphasis on signing players with a winning mentality down to his and Clough's success.

He was asked how he could tell if the player had a winning mentality when he was scouting them.

I am not sure he was entirely candid with his response but he said it was quite easy; he would look at how the player conducted himself when the player and the team were under pressure, if the player maintained his discipline, if his tackling got erratic and how he organised the players around him.

He spoke about pressure quite a bit especially in relation to a players passing ability; he claimed it was the first thing he looked for in a player; can he pass accurately when he is under pressure; he said anyone can pass when they are not under pressure - he claimed jokingly to be a great passer of the ball when he played even though he was a goal keeper
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Reminds me of the time Prince came over for guitar lessons. Oh the tales we swapped. You wouldn't believe.
 
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