Scottish Independence Referendum | Vital Football

Scottish Independence Referendum

Couldn't care less if they stay or go. I wouldn't offer any devo-max, or similar, offerings to try and appease them, i'd just let them make their choice. Once they're gone, they're gone. They can pay to set up their own national services.

I'm a petty person though, I guess.
 
ahx00 - 12/9/2014 12:56

Couldn't care less if they stay or go. I wouldn't offer any devo-max, or similar, offerings to try and appease them, i'd just let them make their choice. Once they're gone, they're gone. They can pay to set up their own national services.

I'm a petty person though, I guess.
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Pretty much feel the same, although perhaps it's arguable that together we're stronger - but even that's highly debatable.

I'd be totally non-plussed if they go their own way, I have many Scottish friends and even a branch of Scottish relatives and they're all split as much as it seems the rest of the UK is.

Salmond has misrepresented much, and I can't help feel that he should indeed 'enjoy' the bitter fruits a victory for the yes vote might bring him....oh of course he'll have secured his place in history for awhile, but bit by bit I've a feeling that over time much of his BS and promises would unravel...

Anyway, in any event, it's their decision and I hope they quickly come to terms with it, as no matter what the outcome, the rest of the UK will ....and of course we'd have the massive upside of probably never ever suffering another labour government again!! :10: :17:
 
the No campaign is a debacle and very late scaremongering, having said that, Salmond talks rubbish and is very slappable.

I predict a comfortable win for 'No' on the basis that when it comes down to it people vote for status quo rather than the unknown every time - Thatcher's last term being a prime example of what voters do rather than what they say

 
This is being watched by Canadians with interest. Quebec and their threats to separate are treated with the same sort of kid gloves until referendum time and then it gets a bit silly. But it always simmers.

Would Scotland's finances allow them to enter the EU?
 
80deg16minW - 12/9/2014 13:58

This is being watched by Canadians with interest. Quebec and their threats to separate are treated with the same sort of kid gloves until referendum time and then it gets a bit silly. But it always simmers.

Would Scotland's finances allow them to enter the EU?
Click to expand...

Probably, in due course - depends on how little or much cooperation there would be over the pound; people simply don't realise that the lender of last resort for Scotland is the BOE, and the local Scottish banks operating Balance sheets are paper thin - how much they could raise and at what price from the International markets would be an acid test and every market - led indication so far is that they're be paying seriously high rates. Rates that over the medium term and given their project revenues would already have them teetering on the brink of running massive deficits.

I suspect the better question might be how long will they have to wait for EU membership, because they'll need to seek it pretty quickly as they know as well as the rest of the EU they'd be one of the larger net beneficiaries..

On the plus side, staying outside the EU gives them the ability to do what they like, pretty much when they like and stick two fingers up to the EU...
 
Spursex - 12/9/2014 14:33

80deg16minW - 12/9/2014 13:58

This is being watched by Canadians with interest. Quebec and their threats to separate are treated with the same sort of kid gloves until referendum time and then it gets a bit silly. But it always simmers.

Would Scotland's finances allow them to enter the EU?
Click to expand...

Probably, in due course - depends on how little or much cooperation there would be over the pound; people simply don't realise that the lender of last resort for Scotland is the BOE, and the local Scottish banks operating Balance sheets are paper thin - how much they could raise and at what price from the International markets would be an acid test and every market - led indication so far is that they're be paying seriously high rates. Rates that over the medium term and given their project revenues would already have them teetering on the brink of running massive deficits.

I suspect the better question might be how long will they have to wait for EU membership, because they'll need to seek it pretty quickly as they know as well as the rest of the EU they'd be one of the larger net beneficiaries..

On the plus side, staying outside the EU gives them the ability to do what they like, pretty much when they like and stick two fingers up to the EU...
Click to expand...


Let's vote for independence. Then let's join the EU.

I wonder if anyone else sees as much humour in that as I do.

Replacing British bureaucrats with French bureaucrats. I feel like Benny Hill.
 
80deg16minW - 12/9/2014 14:39

Spursex - 12/9/2014 14:33

80deg16minW - 12/9/2014 13:58

This is being watched by Canadians with interest. Quebec and their threats to separate are treated with the same sort of kid gloves until referendum time and then it gets a bit silly. But it always simmers.

Would Scotland's finances allow them to enter the EU?
Click to expand...

Probably, in due course - depends on how little or much cooperation there would be over the pound; people simply don't realise that the lender of last resort for Scotland is the BOE, and the local Scottish banks operating Balance sheets are paper thin - how much they could raise and at what price from the International markets would be an acid test and every market - led indication so far is that they're be paying seriously high rates. Rates that over the medium term and given their project revenues would already have them teetering on the brink of running massive deficits.

I suspect the better question might be how long will they have to wait for EU membership, because they'll need to seek it pretty quickly as they know as well as the rest of the EU they'd be one of the larger net beneficiaries..

On the plus side, staying outside the EU gives them the ability to do what they like, pretty much when they like and stick two fingers up to the EU...
Click to expand...


Let's vote for independence. Then let's join the EU.

I wonder if anyone else sees as much humour in that as I do.

Replacing British bureaucrats with French bureaucrats. I feel like Benny Hill.
Click to expand...

It's pretty laughable really, but that's Salmond for you and let's not forget that Scotland want to be 'nuclear free' but also want to be part of Nato...even though closing the bases in Scotland would hugely weaken Nato's northern flank.
 
I care very much for the UK remaining intact as a union. I also resent the Scots (those that are looking to vote yes) for wanting to divide this country. Anyone will tell you that there is strength in standing together. We have been together for 300 years now as a union and have put our differences behind us and for the good of the whole have stood shoulder to shoulder in all the wars etc. To say that we don't wish to stand by each other now when we share these islands and are in such close proximity to each other as countries, is just plain stupid. And for what? People like Alex Salmond should be ashamed for even suggesting that one of us should break away from the others.

All those years ago we became a union, that wasn't easy. We have a common currency and so much more in common like health services and social funding. Some areas, like Scotland have high demands on social funding. How will they sustain that in future? Oil is going to run out after a while and will they expect us to bail them out when it does? No, they will have no right to. What about the defence of this country? Will they expect us to jump to their rescue if they do something stupid as an autonomous state and get themselves in bother diplomatically? No, they would have to provide their own armed forces and sort out their own problems. And what about borders? Hadrians wall? No one allowed over the border? If foreigners take a ferry to Scotland and they are not controlled as they are to some degree now, will they just be allowed to come in unhindered because they have a new route?

Alex Salmond and all his cronies haven't thought out everything, there are too many unanswered questions and a HUGE decision CANNOT be taken like this on a whim. Will they want to be a republic next? And what problems will that bring? I think this guy is VERY DANGEROUS AND SO IS THE WHOLE THING. The process is quietly moving along and soon the referendum will be on us and if it's a quick YES verdict, without proper answers in hand before it happens, it could cost us HUGELY AS A WHOLE COUNTRY, not just for Scotland (which I think it will be catastrophic for, it's a massive step to set out on your own, and they can't expect us to help them become isolated from us). I like the Scots, as I like all our parts, We're British, that's a 'complete' term and I'm proud to be British.

We all have some unlikeable parts but they are not bad enough to break up the union for, we need to work together and sort them with decent understanding.

I hope the Scots who are thinking of stepping away, alone, will seriously think about what they are doing and don't go ahead with this fad which some unscrupulous polititian has dreamed up to get attention for himself.
 
Welshtel - 12/9/2014 16:04

I care very much for the UK remaining intact as a union. I also resent the Scots (those that are looking to vote yes) for wanting to divide this country. Anyone will tell you that there is strength in standing together. We have been together for 300 years now as a union and have put our differences behind us and for the good of the whole have stood shoulder to shoulder in all the wars etc. To say that we don't wish to stand by each other now when we share these islands and are in such close proximity to each other as countries, is just plain stupid. And for what? People like Alex Salmond should be ashamed for even suggesting that one of us should break away from the others.

All those years ago we became a union, that wasn't easy. We have a common currency and so much more in common like health services and social funding. Some areas, like Scotland have high demands on social funding. How will they sustain that in future? Oil is going to run out after a while and will they expect us to bail them out when it does? No, they will have no right to. What about the defence of this country? Will they expect us to jump to their rescue if they do something stupid as an autonomous state and get themselves in bother diplomatically? No, they would have to provide their own armed forces and sort out their own problems. And what about borders? Hadrians wall? No one allowed over the border? If foreigners take a ferry to Scotland and they are not controlled as they are to some degree now, will they just be allowed to come in unhindered because they have a new route?

Alex Salmond and all his cronies haven't thought out everything, there are too many unanswered questions and a HUGE decision CANNOT be taken like this on a whim. Will they want to be a republic next? And what problems will that bring? I think this guy is VERY DANGEROUS AND SO IS THE WHOLE THING. The process is quietly moving along and soon the referendum will be on us and if it's a quick YES verdict, without proper answers in hand before it happens, it could cost us HUGELY AS A WHOLE COUNTRY, not just for Scotland (which I think it will be catastrophic for, it's a massive step to set out on your own, and they can't expect us to help them become isolated from us). I like the Scots, as I like all our parts, We're British, that's a 'complete' term and I'm proud to be British.

We all have some unlikeable parts but they are not bad enough to break up the union for, we need to work together and sort them with decent understanding.

I hope the Scots who are thinking of stepping away, alone, will seriously think about what they are doing and don't go ahead with this fad which some unscrupulous polititian has dreamed up to get attention for himself.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure you can call it 'a fad' although I understand why you'd consider it like that.

They think being 'independent' will mean low taxes, high benefits, they believe they'd have a very cushy future as North Sea oil and gas revenues would negate the need to become net wealth creators.

The North Sea's leading experts have debunked Salmond's claims for the reserves - but it seems the yes voters have complete and utter faith in his unsubstantiated claims - that's they're right and they're choice.

And again today yet another report suggests they'll be facing financial Armageddon: (I still can't help but think the thought of ending labour as a political force in the the rest of the UK, means that it's a price worth paying!!)..


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11093574/Scotland-heading-for-a-Great-Depression-after-a-Yes-vote.html

Scotland heading for a 'Great Depression' after a Yes vote.


Deutsche Bank warns a vote for independence would be a historic mistake as the Chancellor and the Bank of England's Governor disclose they have pulled out of next weekend's G20 meeting to prepare for the aftermath
Deutsche Bank has dismissed Alex Salmond's claim leaving the UK would be straightforward, saying it would be a mistake of historic proportions
Deutsche Bank has dismissed Alex Salmond's claim leaving the UK would be straightforward, saying it would be a mistake of historic proportions Photo: Andrew Milligan/PA

By Simon Johnson, Scottish Political Editor

8:09PM BST 12 Sep 2014

Britain faces a period of severe economic turbulence if Scotland votes for independence next week, economists warned, as the prospect of a Yes vote threatened a new financial crisis.

A report from a respected financial advisory firm said that investors were already pulling money out of the UK at the fastest pace since the "credit crisis" of 2008.


Gordon Brown speaks during a NO rally in Glasgow (EPA)

CrossBorder Capital said the net flow of capital out of Britain hit £16.8 billion in August, the highest level seen since Lehman Brothers collapsed.

Michael Howell, managing director, said outflows from the UK now look to be intensifying "with the possibility of Scottish independence coming to the front of investors’ minds".


"Sterling outflows have been an issue since the end of June, but they really gathered pace in August," he said.

Meanwhile, a study by Deutsche Bank said a Yes vote for Scottish independence would "go down in history as a political and economic mistake" on a par with Winston Churchill’s decision in 1925 to return the pound to the Gold Standard or the failures by the Federal Reserve in America that triggered the Great Depression in the 1930s.

It warned that Scotland risked a similar depression if voters backed the Yes campaign on Thursday, and described the desire for independence as an "incomprehensible" one which could have negative consequences "far beyond" what people had imagined.

Gordon Brown said the Deutsche Bank report showed that Scotland was "in danger of falling through an economic trapdoor".

With the battle over independence reaching fever pitch on the final weekend of campaigning, George Osborne, the Chancellor, announced he was withdrawing from a crucial G20 summit next weekend because of the risk that a vote for independence in Thursday’s referendum could plunge the UK economy back into turmoil.

Mr Osborne said a Yes vote would have "permanent consequences" for the British economy and announced that he would not attend next weekend’s meeting of finance ministers and central bank governors in Cairns, Australia.

Mark Carney, the Governor of the Bank of England, also announced that he would return early from the meeting to be back in time for the referendum result.

As another opinion poll showed the result on a knife edge, with 51 per cent opposed and 49 per cent in favour, Mr Osborne said they could not be abroad when the result was declared because of the "economic risks" that could immediately follow.

A survey by Bloomberg predicted the pound could tumble as much as 10 per cent in the event of a Yes vote.

On another dramatic day in the independence campaign:

Warnings about the dire economic consequences of separation intensified, with Britain’s largest mobile phone companies preparing to issue an unprecedented joint statement about the price rises that would follow;

As David Cameron encouraged more companies to speak out, Sir Richard Branson and the chief executives of Marks and Spencer, the Kingfisher DIY group and the Timpson shoe repair chain added their voices to the chorus of business opposition;

UBS, the global financial services giant, echoed Deutsche Bank by predicting independence would prompt a recession in a separate Scotland almost on the scale of that which accompanied the collapse of its two major banks;

The Chinese government appeared to support the No campaign by saying it wanted "stability" in the UK economy;


JIm Sillars (left) warned that there would be a “day of reckoning” for businesses (Rex)

Jim Sillars, the former SNP deputy leader, warned that companies who have opposed separation face a "day of reckoning" after a Yes vote, while Alex Salmond accused the Prime Minister of orchestrating a big business scare campaign against Scots.

Disclosing his decision not to attend the G20 at a press conference, Mr Osborne said: "It’s important given the economic risks of one particular outcome of that referendum that I am here in the UK and the Governor of the Bank of England has independently come to the same conclusion."

Asked if this was a "sign of panic", he said: "It is sensible given we have got this referendum. They don’t come round every month. It’s a very big moment for our country. It’s a very big decision with permanent consequences."

He referred to economic risks highlighted by City analysts, citing a report by Credit Suisse that predicted a separate Scotland would fall into a "deep recession" and would lead to a run on deposits in Scottish-based banks.

In a foreword to the Deutsche Bank report, David Folkerts-Landau, its chief economist, said everyone has a right to self-determination but that some political decisions could have negative consequences far beyond what voters might imagine.

"We feel that we are on the threshold of one such moment. A Yes vote for Scottish independence on Thursday would go down in history as a political and economic mistake as large as Winston Churchill’s decision in 1925 to return the pound to the Gold Standard or the failure of the Federal Reserve to provide sufficient liquidity to the US banking system, which we now know brought on the Great Depression in the US," he said. "These decisions – well-intentioned as they were – contributed to years of depression and suffering and could have been avoided had alternative decisions been taken."

He said the UK’s financial institutions provide stability and certainty but he warned a separate Scotland would have to "severely" rein in spending or increase taxes to establish credibility on the international money markets.

"While it may sound simple and costless for a nation to exit a 300 year-old union, nothing could be further from the truth," he said, before concluding that the economic case for independence was "incomprehensible".

He predicted that the main effects of independence, with uncertainty about its currency, would be that Scottish residents would move their cash and assets to England and financial institutions would also move south.

If Scotland tried to continue using the pound, it would find its interest rates being set by the Bank of England with no regard to Scottish conditions.

Banks in Scotland would have to reduce their lending to shore up their assets and, as result, an independent Scottish government would have to raise taxes to find the money for public spending.

Ongoing uncertainty over what currency an independent Scotland might use in the event of a Yes vote has plagued the referendum, and unsettled major financial institutions.

UBS predicted Scotland’s GDP would nosedive by between 4 and 5 per cent after a Yes vote as the country’s banking sector relocated to England. It said Scottish GDP fell 6.7 per cent in 2009 after the collapse of Royal Bank of Scotland and Bank of Scotland.

Scottish companies and households would suffer "some degree of a credit crunch" without clarity on the currency and the banking system, the report also predicted.

It repeated Mr Carney’s warnings that it would need tens of billions of pounds of reserves to continue using the pound without a formal currency union.

For a separate Scotland to support its currency arrangements, meet its deficit and set up a new state, the report estimated it would need to generate financial reserves of between £50 billion and £72 billion. That is the equivalent of £9,000 to £13,000 per person north of the Border.

Danny Alexander, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, said last night: "The eyes of the world are on the Scottish nationalists and they don’t like what they see. Global financiers UBS are telling the world that if Scotland votes Yes we will be plunged into an economic mess."
 
Spursex - 13/9/2014 07:39

Welshtel - 12/9/2014 16:04

I care very much for the UK remaining intact as a union. I also resent the Scots (those that are looking to vote yes) for wanting to divide this country. Anyone will tell you that there is strength in standing together. We have been together for 300 years now as a union and have put our differences behind us and for the good of the whole have stood shoulder to shoulder in all the wars etc. To say that we don't wish to stand by each other now when we share these islands and are in such close proximity to each other as countries, is just plain stupid. And for what? People like Alex Salmond should be ashamed for even suggesting that one of us should break away from the others.

All those years ago we became a union, that wasn't easy. We have a common currency and so much more in common like health services and social funding. Some areas, like Scotland have high demands on social funding. How will they sustain that in future? Oil is going to run out after a while and will they expect us to bail them out when it does? No, they will have no right to. What about the defence of this country? Will they expect us to jump to their rescue if they do something stupid as an autonomous state and get themselves in bother diplomatically? No, they would have to provide their own armed forces and sort out their own problems. And what about borders? Hadrians wall? No one allowed over the border? If foreigners take a ferry to Scotland and they are not controlled as they are to some degree now, will they just be allowed to come in unhindered because they have a new route?

Alex Salmond and all his cronies haven't thought out everything, there are too many unanswered questions and a HUGE decision CANNOT be taken like this on a whim. Will they want to be a republic next? And what problems will that bring? I think this guy is VERY DANGEROUS AND SO IS THE WHOLE THING. The process is quietly moving along and soon the referendum will be on us and if it's a quick YES verdict, without proper answers in hand before it happens, it could cost us HUGELY AS A WHOLE COUNTRY, not just for Scotland (which I think it will be catastrophic for, it's a massive step to set out on your own, and they can't expect us to help them become isolated from us). I like the Scots, as I like all our parts, We're British, that's a 'complete' term and I'm proud to be British.

We all have some unlikeable parts but they are not bad enough to break up the union for, we need to work together and sort them with decent understanding.

I hope the Scots who are thinking of stepping away, alone, will seriously think about what they are doing and don't go ahead with this fad which some unscrupulous polititian has dreamed up to get attention for himself.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure you can call it 'a fad' although I understand why you'd consider it like that.

They think being 'independent' will mean low taxes, high benefits, they believe they'd have a very cushy future as North Sea oil and gas revenues would negate the need to become net wealth creators.

The North Sea's leading experts have debunked Salmond's claims for the reserves - but it seems the yes voters have complete and utter faith in his unsubstantiated claims - that's they're right and they're choice.

And again today yet another report suggests they'll be facing financial Armageddon: (I still can't help but think the thought of ending labour as a political force in the the rest of the UK, means that it's a price worth paying!!)..


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11093574/Scotland-heading-for-a-Great-Depression-after-a-Yes-vote.html

Scotland heading for a 'Great Depression' after a Yes vote.


Deutsche Bank warns a vote for independence would be a historic mistake as the Chancellor and the Bank of England's Governor disclose they have pulled out of next weekend's G20 meeting to prepare for the aftermath
Deutsche Bank has dismissed Alex Salmond's claim leaving the UK would be straightforward, saying it would be a mistake of historic proportions
Deutsche Bank has dismissed Alex Salmond's claim leaving the UK would be straightforward, saying it would be a mistake of historic proportions Photo: Andrew Milligan/PA

By Simon Johnson, Scottish Political Editor

8:09PM BST 12 Sep 2014

Britain faces a period of severe economic turbulence if Scotland votes for independence next week, economists warned, as the prospect of a Yes vote threatened a new financial crisis.

A report from a respected financial advisory firm said that investors were already pulling money out of the UK at the fastest pace since the "credit crisis" of 2008.


Gordon Brown speaks during a NO rally in Glasgow (EPA)

CrossBorder Capital said the net flow of capital out of Britain hit £16.8 billion in August, the highest level seen since Lehman Brothers collapsed.

Michael Howell, managing director, said outflows from the UK now look to be intensifying "with the possibility of Scottish independence coming to the front of investors’ minds".


"Sterling outflows have been an issue since the end of June, but they really gathered pace in August," he said.

Meanwhile, a study by Deutsche Bank said a Yes vote for Scottish independence would "go down in history as a political and economic mistake" on a par with Winston Churchill’s decision in 1925 to return the pound to the Gold Standard or the failures by the Federal Reserve in America that triggered the Great Depression in the 1930s.

It warned that Scotland risked a similar depression if voters backed the Yes campaign on Thursday, and described the desire for independence as an "incomprehensible" one which could have negative consequences "far beyond" what people had imagined.

Gordon Brown said the Deutsche Bank report showed that Scotland was "in danger of falling through an economic trapdoor".

With the battle over independence reaching fever pitch on the final weekend of campaigning, George Osborne, the Chancellor, announced he was withdrawing from a crucial G20 summit next weekend because of the risk that a vote for independence in Thursday’s referendum could plunge the UK economy back into turmoil.

Mr Osborne said a Yes vote would have "permanent consequences" for the British economy and announced that he would not attend next weekend’s meeting of finance ministers and central bank governors in Cairns, Australia.

Mark Carney, the Governor of the Bank of England, also announced that he would return early from the meeting to be back in time for the referendum result.

As another opinion poll showed the result on a knife edge, with 51 per cent opposed and 49 per cent in favour, Mr Osborne said they could not be abroad when the result was declared because of the "economic risks" that could immediately follow.

A survey by Bloomberg predicted the pound could tumble as much as 10 per cent in the event of a Yes vote.

On another dramatic day in the independence campaign:

Warnings about the dire economic consequences of separation intensified, with Britain’s largest mobile phone companies preparing to issue an unprecedented joint statement about the price rises that would follow;

As David Cameron encouraged more companies to speak out, Sir Richard Branson and the chief executives of Marks and Spencer, the Kingfisher DIY group and the Timpson shoe repair chain added their voices to the chorus of business opposition;

UBS, the global financial services giant, echoed Deutsche Bank by predicting independence would prompt a recession in a separate Scotland almost on the scale of that which accompanied the collapse of its two major banks;

The Chinese government appeared to support the No campaign by saying it wanted "stability" in the UK economy;


JIm Sillars (left) warned that there would be a “day of reckoning” for businesses (Rex)

Jim Sillars, the former SNP deputy leader, warned that companies who have opposed separation face a "day of reckoning" after a Yes vote, while Alex Salmond accused the Prime Minister of orchestrating a big business scare campaign against Scots.

Disclosing his decision not to attend the G20 at a press conference, Mr Osborne said: "It’s important given the economic risks of one particular outcome of that referendum that I am here in the UK and the Governor of the Bank of England has independently come to the same conclusion."

Asked if this was a "sign of panic", he said: "It is sensible given we have got this referendum. They don’t come round every month. It’s a very big moment for our country. It’s a very big decision with permanent consequences."

He referred to economic risks highlighted by City analysts, citing a report by Credit Suisse that predicted a separate Scotland would fall into a "deep recession" and would lead to a run on deposits in Scottish-based banks.

In a foreword to the Deutsche Bank report, David Folkerts-Landau, its chief economist, said everyone has a right to self-determination but that some political decisions could have negative consequences far beyond what voters might imagine.

"We feel that we are on the threshold of one such moment. A Yes vote for Scottish independence on Thursday would go down in history as a political and economic mistake as large as Winston Churchill’s decision in 1925 to return the pound to the Gold Standard or the failure of the Federal Reserve to provide sufficient liquidity to the US banking system, which we now know brought on the Great Depression in the US," he said. "These decisions – well-intentioned as they were – contributed to years of depression and suffering and could have been avoided had alternative decisions been taken."

He said the UK’s financial institutions provide stability and certainty but he warned a separate Scotland would have to "severely" rein in spending or increase taxes to establish credibility on the international money markets.

"While it may sound simple and costless for a nation to exit a 300 year-old union, nothing could be further from the truth," he said, before concluding that the economic case for independence was "incomprehensible".

He predicted that the main effects of independence, with uncertainty about its currency, would be that Scottish residents would move their cash and assets to England and financial institutions would also move south.

If Scotland tried to continue using the pound, it would find its interest rates being set by the Bank of England with no regard to Scottish conditions.

Banks in Scotland would have to reduce their lending to shore up their assets and, as result, an independent Scottish government would have to raise taxes to find the money for public spending.

Ongoing uncertainty over what currency an independent Scotland might use in the event of a Yes vote has plagued the referendum, and unsettled major financial institutions.

UBS predicted Scotland’s GDP would nosedive by between 4 and 5 per cent after a Yes vote as the country’s banking sector relocated to England. It said Scottish GDP fell 6.7 per cent in 2009 after the collapse of Royal Bank of Scotland and Bank of Scotland.

Scottish companies and households would suffer "some degree of a credit crunch" without clarity on the currency and the banking system, the report also predicted.

It repeated Mr Carney’s warnings that it would need tens of billions of pounds of reserves to continue using the pound without a formal currency union.

For a separate Scotland to support its currency arrangements, meet its deficit and set up a new state, the report estimated it would need to generate financial reserves of between £50 billion and £72 billion. That is the equivalent of £9,000 to £13,000 per person north of the Border.

Danny Alexander, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, said last night: "The eyes of the world are on the Scottish nationalists and they don’t like what they see. Global financiers UBS are telling the world that if Scotland votes Yes we will be plunged into an economic mess."
Click to expand...

I think it's more a sovereignty issue, than an economic one!

Which is the only reason the 'No' campaign may win.
 
Spurfect11 - 14/9/2014 08:09

"Westminster doesn't understand our needs!" ......... but Brussels does eh?
Click to expand...

They're being fed what they want to hear by Salmon, it really is up to them if they listen to it - I am now beginning to feel that it will be good for everyone if the the yes vote wins...

It might even galvanise the scots to get off their backsides and realise that you can't keeping spending on social welfare unless you can create sustainable tax revenues that go beyond a few companies in the NS pulling out oil and gas.

Yet again today, a respectable set of leading economists say that the Scots will face a debt crisis of a size and scale that will send them back to the dark days of the 1920's...

A faster,older ageing population than the rest of the UK starts making me think the quicker we get the problem off the rest of the UK's back the better off we'll be - my only problem with it if all these experts are right is that when it all goes pair shaped who are they going to ask to bail them out..?

I wish the Scots well, I hope they choose wisely. I look forward to the end of Labour... :18:
 
I moved up here to Scotland last month and love it here in the Borders where Alex Salmon is thought of as a huge joke with virtually a 100% "No" vote!

Fiscally it would be a disaster and most of the "yes" vote is centred around Glasgow and Edinburgh where the natives still think that they're on the end of a "pike" at Bannockburn!!

As i remind anyone of them i meet, Flodden Field is less than 10 miles away...........

I dont think the polls are correct and its not as close as they are making out so i will predict a resounding "No" vote and Alex Salmon will elope with Nicola Sturgeon!

But sorry Spursex i also think Labour will get in next May and George Galloway agrees with me so it must be true!!

 
Galvin's Shinpads - 14/9/2014 21:59

The Union Flag is going to look kinda funny without the navy blue!
Click to expand...

It is? Why?

People, countries will adapt - I really the idea of a red and white flag only.
 
I originate from the Scottish Borders and for me I would be in favour of the yes vote, personally my opinion on MP's and Governments are that they are all liars, the surrounding towns in the borders where I came from were thriving 25 years ago with industries in electronics and the woolen trade (Lyle and Scott, Pringle among others) huge employers that have either moved or down scaled operations in the area, each time the heart being removed from each town.
Going home and driving through these towns that were once bustling and vibrant are now ghost towns.
The blame does not fall purely with Westminster but I feel there has to be change, Alec Salmond will not last if Independence were to go through, the people will make sure of that.
I certainly don't think either Cameron, Clegg or Milliband have done any good on their visits to Scotland as they are not prepared to speak directly to the people, it's all bs for the media and the BBC should hang their heads in shame with their corrupt coverage, any doubt check Alex Salmonds words with Nick Robinson where it was reported Salmond couldn't answer and in their edit he couldn't, Youtube shows different.

My question is why are Westminster so desperate to keep Scotland if we are all take, take, taking?


 
Bazali - 14/9/2014 20:59


I moved up here to Scotland last month and love it here in the Borders where Alex Salmon is thought of as a huge joke with virtually a 100% "No" vote!

Fiscally it would be a disaster and most of the "yes" vote is centred around Glasgow and Edinburgh where the natives still think that they're on the end of a "pike" at Bannockburn!!

As i remind anyone of them i meet, Flodden Field is less than 10 miles away...........

I dont think the polls are correct and its not as close as they are making out so i will predict a resounding "No" vote and Alex Salmon will elope with Nicola Sturgeon!

But sorry Spursex i also think Labour will get in next May and George Galloway agrees with me so it must be true!!
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I'm beginning to think that I'd be disappointed if the 'no' vote wins. Like you I think Labour will win the next election if the Scots are still part of the Union - boundary changes literally lock in around 22 seats for labour for ever and there's no doubt that even though the conservatives are well along the road to repairing the damage labour did to us last time, people will punish the tories for having to bring in austerity to address the deficit.

Hence why I'd love to see the end of the 58 Scots MP's in parliament.
 
I have to agree with alot of that and as a socialist in the 70's/80's i was horrifed at the last Labour government and hope they never get in again!

Problem is you look at "Dave" who admits he is a "Blair Admirer" and you wonder whats going on with the Tories!!

Blair the most duplicious, deceitful, greedy politician of modern times!!
Middle East Envoy?????
Do me a favour!!!!

The Tories only chance is to ditch Cameron now and give Boris a chance!!

As regards our industries dying we were never going to survive with the cheap labour products flooding in from the East no matter who was in power but Maggie didn't do alot for our manufacturing industries did she???

Going to Turkey tomorrow for 5 weeks doing up the villa for a Winter let so will be well out of it but friends there told me that the exchange rate for the pound which is normally around 3.50TL plummeted to around 3.10TL just on the news that the "Yes" vote took a lead in the polls last weekend!!

Will be able to keep up with the footy as quite a few Spurs fans out there!!
 
Willietheyid - 15/9/2014 10:24

I originate from the Scottish Borders and for me I would be in favour of the yes vote, personally my opinion on MP's and Governments are that they are all liars, the surrounding towns in the borders where I came from were thriving 25 years ago with industries in electronics and the woolen trade (Lyle and Scott, Pringle among others) huge employers that have either moved or down scaled operations in the area, each time the heart being removed from each town.
Going home and driving through these towns that were once bustling and vibrant are now ghost towns.
The blame does not fall purely with Westminster but I feel there has to be change, Alec Salmond will not last if Independence were to go through, the people will make sure of that.
I certainly don't think either Cameron, Clegg or Milliband have done any good on their visits to Scotland as they are not prepared to speak directly to the people, it's all bs for the media and the BBC should hang their heads in shame with their corrupt coverage, any doubt check Alex Salmonds words with Nick Robinson where it was reported Salmond couldn't answer and in their edit he couldn't, Youtube shows different.

My question is why are Westminster so desperate to keep Scotland if we are all take, take, taking?
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Westminster, like all politicians will see it as a diminishing of our Global status - which it unquestionably would be.

That said, I have no problem with this, the sooner we have a shock to the system and we ALL learn that both our wealth and our standing has been drained away, the better.

Your story of old industries winding down can be duplicated all over the North and South of England - the unit cost of labour here made that happen, the very things that many warned about because of the 'social' policies of the EU forced manufacturing to move to geographies with lower unit costs - independence isn't going to change that.

Local economic policies have been in the Scot's own hands for a long time now, they've had plenty of time to do things differently and haven't - bottom line is Salmon has everyone on the hook believing that you can have high social benefits, low taxation, low productivity and a low debt growing economy - sadly the Scots seem to be swallowing his BS wholesale..

Good luck to them, I hope it works for them, but my money is on them facing economic crisis after crisis and cuts after cuts in all welfare programs once the reality bites, and funnily enough so is just about every economic forecaster worth his salt.

Still, the sooner it happens the better it maybe for all concerned.
 
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