Pro Life vs Pro Choice | Page 2 | Vital Football

Pro Life vs Pro Choice

That's the great thing about it, isn't it. There are different ways to view it, and everything in the Universe. You can say the same about every comet, sun, black hole, pebble and raindrop. They're all fascinating in their own uniqueness.

My main thrust has been about women regaining the power over their own bodies, and giving them the choice, not me. If I did have to choose, I would be pro choice purely from the point of view that there are too many of us already.
 
kefkat - 9/2/2018 23:57

If I had to come down on one side I would be pro life but...... that is for me! I was in a situation with my youngest where I was told to abort. No way I was. He is a perfectly healthy happy young man todat. The backdrop story to it doesn't matter.

However being pro life does not mean I would judge anyone who chose to have an abortion. It's not my business too.

There is certain circumstances where there shouldn't eben be a debate on it. Rape, incest, mother or child quality or life threatened or won't be one and the like.

It's down to the woman. I mean this with no disrespect guys however it is the woman who carries and gives birth and it's her choice

As for JRM I cannot believe how many think he will be an awesome pm and find him so cute. Yes you read that right. As a reader of mumsnet and gransnet forums it is shockingly true that many women find him so traditionally old fashioned and adorable. I am like wtf!!!
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That's funny. I'm pro-choice for exactly the same reasons. I have two kids and that's enough for me but if the Mrs did get herself pregnant, I'd be happy to have another. Still, that's me in my situation.

I don't think I should be allowed to dictate what other people can and can't do. As adults, we make our choices and live with the consequences.
 
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I thought it was quite surreal, in a rather serious thread, having this advertisement appear as though it were a posting.
Some nice thoughtful postings, folks, even if I am not in agreement with some of the conclusions reached.
One of the things that doesn't seem to have been thought out properly on this side of the Irish Sea is who will perform these procedures, assuming the constitutional prohibition is removed.
Also, I wonder sometimes too the effect of 200,000 abortions being performed annually in the UK has on other services provided by the NHS. Are waiting lists longer? Genuine question - not mischief-making.

 
Villan Of The North - 9/2/2018 11:20

Regardless og which side of the fence you sit on, only the most callous of people would think that there was ever a good reason for abortion,
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I must be callous then. Strange because most people describe me very differently.

I'd rather someone have an abortion than bring an unwanted child into an over populated planet. Good reason.

I'd rather someone have an abortion than bring in a seriously health challenged baby into an already very tough world just to suffer. Good reason.

I'd rather women have the choice to remove a fetus after being raped. Good reason.

Nothing callous at all, just practical to me.

But then I don't believe if there is a God, that he'd be writing all the rules that mankind have written in 'the creators' name. I don't think he'd be so callous.

:14:
 
Well said Mr. Fear.

To go back to what Heath said about how we view the value of life, how about the value of life of an unwanted child?

Or the value of life of those people who made a mistake and and are in no way fit to deal with raising a child?

Or as Fear mentioned the value of life of a child born with serious defects whose only existence will be suffering?

Are pro-lifers so obsessed with not killing a fetus that they completely disregard all the other pain, misery and suffering an unwanted child birth could cause?

Doesn't sound like pro-"life" to me at all.
 
Stephen Jay Hawkings - 9/2/2018 22:19

Are pro-lifers so obsessed with not killing a fetus that they completely disregard all the other pain, misery and suffering an unwanted child birth could cause?

Doesn't sound like pro-"life" to me at all.
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This...

:1:
 
kefkat - 9/2/2018 14:57

It's down to the woman. I mean this with no disrespect guys however it is the woman who carries and gives birth and it's her choice
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Yep, and that's what pro-choice is all about.

It's not pro-abortion or pro-death, it's simply giving the woman the choice to do what she wants with her body, and any beliefs whether they are religious or whatever are invalid.

It's something that I do have strong feelings about because it happened to me and a girl many years ago where we were far too young to have our lives turned upside down. Precautions were used but sometimes they fail and you then have an accidental pregnancy. We weren't even seriously dating.

She only told me a while after she got back from England after the procedure as she had gone and made the choice herself believing it was best for both of us. Which it was. And I always had such respect and admiration for her for doing that.

Many years later she's now happily married and last year gave birth to her first child and that kid will have a great upbringing in the care of two loving parents.

The world is still spinning and neither of us have been struck down by lightning.

I think she made the right choice.

 
The Fear - 10/2/2018 05:44

Villan Of The North - 9/2/2018 11:20

Regardless og which side of the fence you sit on, only the most callous of people would think that there was ever a good reason for abortion,
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I must be callous then. Strange because most people describe me very differently.

I'd rather someone have an abortion than bring an unwanted child into an over populated planet. Good reason.

I'd rather someone have an abortion than bring in a seriously health challenged baby into an already very tough world just to suffer. Good reason.

I'd rather women have the choice to remove a fetus after being raped. Good reason.

Nothing callous at all, just practical to me.

But then I don't believe if there is a God, that he'd be writing all the rules that mankind have written in 'the creators' name. I don't think he'd be so callous.

:14:
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Wow. I think you might want to reword that.

This is a very emotive topic and there is right on both sides (hence the debate).

I was waiting to see who would be first to throw a grenade into this thread. My money was on VOTN or Heath.
 
Stephen Jay Hawkings - 9/2/2018 23:52

kefkat - 9/2/2018 14:57

It's down to the woman. I mean this with no disrespect guys however it is the woman who carries and gives birth and it's her choice
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Yep, and that's what pro-choice is all about.

It's not pro-abortion or pro-death, it's simply giving the woman the choice to do what she wants with her body, and any beliefs whether they are religious or whatever are invalid.

It's something that I do have strong feelings about because it happened to me and a girl many years ago where we were far too young to have our lives turned upside down. Precautions were used but sometimes they fail and you then have an accidental pregnancy. We weren't even seriously dating.

She only told me a while after she got back from England after the procedure as she had gone and made the choice herself believing it was best for both of us. Which it was. And I always had such respect and admiration for her for doing that.

Many years later she's now happily married and last year gave birth to her first child and that kid will have a great upbringing in the care of two loving parents.

The world is still spinning and neither of us have been struck down by lightning.

I think she made the right choice.
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I would argue that if you are not ready/prepaired to take the responsibility of the consequences of having sex then you are not emotionally mature enoughh to be having sex. Of course unwanted things happen in life, things that are not planned for but with every decision one takes in life there is always a risk and if one is not willing to face the possible consequences of that risk when it turns ot the wrong way then it's irresponsible to take that choice. This is where regulation becomes appropriate. As for it being the woman's choice about her body, well it's not just her body is it, and as the child is not capable of arguing their own case, someone else has to advocate for them.



 
BodyButter - 10/2/2018 00:26


Wow. I think you might want to reword that.

This is a very emotive topic and there is right on both sides (hence the debate).

I was waiting to see who would be first to throw a grenade into this thread. My money was on VOTN or Heath.
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:19: :19: :19: :19: :19:

Ian and I learnt to live with each other some time ago on subjects like this!!!

I actually agree with Fear, and don't see why it is so offensive. There are women who want the choice, as proven by the number of terminations in the UK and other developed countries.

We're not talking about forcing anyone to have an abortion, just giving them the choice. Pro life means taking that choice away, which is selfish and short sighted, in my opinion.
 
Stephen Jay Hawkings - 9/2/2018 22:19


Or as Fear mentioned the value of life of a child born with serious defects whose only existence will be suffering?
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But how do you define "serious defects", SJH?
We have a grandson with autism. Would he be deemed to be seriously defective? Certainly, his life so far has been very challenging- for him, especially, and also his parents and siblings. However, we cannot imagine life without him. He has, as some of you know, written a book.(Some on here have even bought it - thank you.)
He has a younger sister. Before she was born, her parents were told that she was unlikely to survive beyond birth and that if she did, she would have a very poor quality of life. Her kidneys, we were told, were shot, she'd probably be blind and she would certainly have hydrocephalus.
Her kidneys are fine, she can see perfectly but, yes, she does have hydrocephalus. She also has what is called a "shunt" which helps drain the excess fluid from her brain.
Of course, who knows what the future will bring for her. But then who knows what the future will bring for any of us.
In Denmark, where one of our daughters live, it is now routine to abort where Down Syndrome is diagnosed. Apparently, there is now a shortage of medical professions who know how to treat and manage this condition as it is so rare.
 
I think it can only be a decision for the parents, BBJ.

If they feel they can cope, and your children certainly seem to have done admirably, then fair enough. The problem is that there are many people who find raising a healthy child challenging.

I never wanted children, so I know I come from a different point than many parents on here, so please excuse me if I offend.
 
Villan Of The North - 10/2/2018 01:46

I would argue that if you are not ready/prepaired to take the responsibility of the consequences of having sex then you are not emotionally mature enoughh to be having sex. Of course unwanted things happen in life, things that are not planned for but with every decision one takes in life there is always a risk and if one is not willing to face the possible consequences of that risk when it turns ot the wrong way then it's irresponsible to take that choice. This is where regulation becomes appropriate. As for it being the woman's choice about her body, well it's not just her body is it, and as the child is not capable of arguing their own case, someone else has to advocate for them.
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We were in our early 20s. Do you think the age of consent needs to be a lot higher? What age exactly do people become emotionally mature enough and responsible enough to have an unwanted child? Or any child for that matter. Not all circumstances are the same.

But you're right about the child not capable of arguing it's own case, simply because it's not a child and it's incapable of arguing or thinking.
 
BBJ - 10/2/2018 09:30

But how do you define "serious defects", SJH?
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As Heath said, depends on the parents BBJ. Again it's about choice. I certainly wouldn't class autism as a defect at all as a full happy life can be lived.

If a child was going to be born and have a very low quality of life, whether it be physically or mentally then I would say that's a fair case, but it's the parents call to make.
 
The logical conclusion of VOTN's argument is that only married people should have sex. In an ideal world, that would probably be the case but it's naive to expect that and leads to really horrible consequences where it is morally or legally imposed.
 
BBJ - 10/2/2018 09:30

In Denmark, where one of our daughters live, it is now routine to abort where Down Syndrome is diagnosed. Apparently, there is now a shortage of medical professions who know how to treat and manage this condition as it is so rare.
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Iceland too I think
 
Iowa’s Republican-controlled legislature has passed the most restrictive abortion ban in the United States, outlawing the procedure after a fetal heartbeat is detected, often at six weeks and before a woman realizes she is pregnant.

The legislation is aimed at triggering a challenge to Roe v Wade, the US supreme court’s 1973 landmark decision which established that women have a constitutional right to an abortion, activists on both sides of the issue said.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/02/iowa-abortion-bill-law-most-restrictive
 
I was going to post about this earlier - most people won't even know at 6 weeks they could be pregnant unless they are a robot.

Disgusting, but at least there are inbuilt caveats which is something.

Nice to know Trump's Obama Care rollbacks effecting family planning can now be used to completely screw people's lives up with this change.

Good ol' Republicans....so forward thinking.
 
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