Post Brexit (n/g) | Page 20 | Vital Football

Post Brexit (n/g)

valenciagill said:
Sounds like you're finally waking up Bud đź‘Ť
The majority didn't vote for an unfinished job.
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That's what I mean, val. We share some common ground in as much as neither of us have gotten what we wanted. But we're completely opposed on what we wanted or want.

Of the 52% who voted Leave, how many do you reckon are unhappy with the deal? I genuinely don't know but it's gotta be at least half, don't you reckon? That'd represent 26% (maybe more?), and if you add that to the 48% who voted Remain, well then that's 74%. That's quite a lot of people pissed off with what's happened and is happening.

The minority of people who do seem happy about the whole thing don't seem to me to be really understanding or analysing the deal and/or the consequences of leaving the EU in the way that we have. They're not really interested in any of that. They're not interested in hearing about any negative consequences of the deal. Instead, they just repeat their mantras of "You lost, get over it!", "Britain is Best!", "Up Yours EU!" and "Fuck the French!"
 
valenciagill said:
Pretty near almost everyone , I'd say.
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Well if you're right about that it'd mean that nobody is happy with the situation, Leavers or Remainers. It makes you wonder whether it's all been worth it after all? And nobody should be banging on about how great a thing Brexit is! If nobody is happy how can it be?! What an utter fucking mess.
 
jokerman said:
The French surely love us. They vetoed our application twice. They said this not the Europe you’re looking for. You will not be happy in it. But did we listen?
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Exactly. Once Jacques Delors became obsessed with making the EU overtly political rather than just trade based, it was never going to suit us. We never wanted to adopt the Euro or join the Schengen area, let along be bogged down with thousands of directives.

We should have got out in the late 1980s/early 1990s but the government did not call a referendum then.

The idea that leavers thought we would get some sort of perfect deal is frankly laughable though. There was always going to be positives and negatives. The EU were always going to make it as difficult as possible to leave and so compromise was always essential. It is still early days. Most nations survive quite happily being independent and eventually we will be the same.
 
Ultimately, the recent problems at Dover are going to make a lot of families not bother going across for their holidays in future.

Hopefully, the French are not bothered about the loss of tourism and that should actually help climate change with less miles travelled so maybe it will suit everyone.
 
Buddha said:
"Britain is Best!", "Up Yours EU!" and "Fuck the French!"
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Where has anyone said this? Please direct us to it. As a pointed out a number of posts ago, the more aggressive behaviour and action post Brexit has come from the French and their government. I provided examples of this rather than made up quotes and challenged remainers and lefties to provide examples of where Britain has acted aggressively towards the French in the same manner and no responses have been forthcoming othe than made-up quotes and a generic love-in for the French and slating of Brexit and the UK…
 
Buddha said:
That's what I mean, val. We share some common ground in as much as neither of us have gotten what we wanted. But we're completely opposed on what we wanted or want.

Of the 52% who voted Leave, how many do you reckon are unhappy with the deal? I genuinely don't know but it's gotta be at least half, don't you reckon? That'd represent 26% (maybe more?), and if you add that to the 48% who voted Remain, well then that's 74%. That's quite a lot of people pissed off with what's happened and is happening.
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Must be a day for Buddha making things up. Where is your where is your evidence that half of those who voted Brexit have changed their mind? I don’t know anyway personally. And you think there is not a single remainer who has actually accepted the democratic vote and is moving on? Not every one who voted remain is a bitter remoaner who can’t get over it. I know plenty of conservative (small c) remainers who’s heart said vote leave but they were worried about the consequences and now would happily vote with their heart.

A 74% remain prediction is pie in the sky, wishful thinking and ultimately completely made up.
 
Vambogills said:
Give up 58. At least he hasn't said 'This isn't the Brexit I voted for.' Ever since we in the UK stopped speaking French ourselves, they have been the neighbour we love to hate. Sticking 2 fingers up to the French was extra motivation for plenty of voters in the referendum. It's always everyone else and not us.
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See my post above listing the examples of aggressive behaviour from the French to us post Brexit. Please list examples of where we have taken such actions. Why shouldn’t we speak up against them and defend our country?
 
I feel I must apologise for the actions of the French. When my family came over in 1066, we didn't get our passports stamped, and thanks to the English, there were no border checks. So if people would like to go to France, would they please travel from Hastings in future. Fuck the Dovorians!
 
SteveTreacle said:
Must be a day for Buddha making things up. Where is your where is your evidence that half of those who voted Brexit have changed their mind? I don’t know anyway personally. And you think there is not a single remainer who has actually accepted the democratic vote and is moving on? Not every one who voted remain is a bitter remoaner who can’t get over it. I know plenty of conservative (small c) remainers who’s heart said vote leave but they were worried about the consequences and now would happily vote with their heart.

A 74% remain prediction is pie in the sky, wishful thinking and ultimately completely made up.
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A 74% remain prediction?! WTF are you talking about?! That's not even close to what I was saying. I don't think you properly read my post.

You've made a bit of a fool of yourself here, Steve. It's happening quite frequently recently. Is everything ok?
 
The Brexit debate transcended party politics.
The Conservatives Party campaigned very hard to remain (many forget that)
The Labour Party campaigned quite weakly to remain.
Millions of traditional Tory voters voted to leave.
Millions of traditional Labour voters voted to leave.
The leave campaign was an eclectic mix of all Parties except Libdems.
Even a couple of traditional Communists joined in .
After the event, it was the Tories in government who had the very tricky job of accepting the result (that they didn’t want) and getting on with the job that they were given to do by the electorate.
Cameron resigned.
May was elected and tried a halfway approach that didn’t get support from either side (Labour and Libdems always voted against her proposal)
Then enough is enough.
She’s ousted and Johnson is elected for his version which is also a compromise but he managed to get it through by sacking everyone in his party who was blocking it.
Those are the facts of what happened as I see it.
So, basically people voted for change.
We’ve now got change.
That’s it.
No serious political party will stand on rejoining for a long long time.
 
shotshy said:
The Brexit debate transcended party politics.
The Conservatives Party campaigned very hard to remain (many forget that)
The Labour Party campaigned quite weakly to remain.
Millions of traditional Tory voters voted to leave.
Millions of traditional Labour voters voted to leave.
The leave campaign was an eclectic mix of all Parties except Libdems.
Even a couple of traditional Communists joined in .
After the event, it was the Tories in government who had the very tricky job of accepting the result (that they didn’t want) and getting on with the job that they were given to do by the electorate.
Cameron resigned.
May was elected and tried a halfway approach that didn’t get support from either side (Labour and Libdems always voted against her proposal)
Then enough is enough.
She’s ousted and Johnson is elected for his version which is also a compromise but he managed to get it through by sacking everyone in his party who was blocking it.
Those are the facts of what happened as I see it.
So, basically people voted for change.
We’ve now got change.
That’s it.
No serious political party will stand on rejoining for a long long time.
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All very well but at some point someone has to make it work, or we are fooked
 
jogills said:
All very well but at some point someone has to make it work, or we are fooked
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The worst predictions of project fear have not come to pass. No armageddon, even though we have had Covid to contend with as well.

Nothing is ever perfect but it is fair to say that it is working, and we are only in the early stages.

Every time the EU tries to invoke something that they think will make us regret it, it has (or will have) some form of negative effect on either their own trade or tourism as well. So be it.
 
GillsBluenose said:
The worst predictions of project fear have not come to pass. No armageddon, even though we have had Covid to contend with as well.

Nothing is ever perfect but it is fair to say that it is working, and we are only in the early stages.

Every time the EU tries to invoke something that they think will make us regret it, it has (or will have) some form of negative effect on either their own trade or tourism as well. So be it.
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I'm lost for words.
 
GillsBluenose said:
The worst predictions of project fear have not come to pass. No armageddon, even though we have had Covid to contend with as well.

Nothing is ever perfect but it is fair to say that it is working, and we are only in the early stages.

Every time the EU tries to invoke something that they think will make us regret it, it has (or will have) some form of negative effect on either their own trade or tourism as well. So be it.
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That's quite a depressing read if you believe what you are saying GBN. Nothing to do with project fear and I have never suggested armageddon. Of course all parties would like it to work but surely it's dawned that we have the most to lose if it does not. Our approach so far and such as it is isn't working and shows no sign of working., Surely we can do better than this. If 6 years on is early stages I wonder how many years that excuse for inaction will persist.
 
shotshy said:
The Brexit debate transcended party politics.
The Conservatives Party campaigned very hard to remain (many forget that)
The Labour Party campaigned quite weakly to remain.
Millions of traditional Tory voters voted to leave.
Millions of traditional Labour voters voted to leave.
The leave campaign was an eclectic mix of all Parties except Libdems.
Even a couple of traditional Communists joined in .
After the event, it was the Tories in government who had the very tricky job of accepting the result (that they didn’t want) and getting on with the job that they were given to do by the electorate.
Cameron resigned.
May was elected and tried a halfway approach that didn’t get support from either side (Labour and Libdems always voted against her proposal)
Then enough is enough.
She’s ousted and Johnson is elected for his version which is also a compromise but he managed to get it through by sacking everyone in his party who was blocking it.
Those are the facts of what happened as I see it.
So, basically people voted for change.
We’ve now got change.
That’s it.
No serious political party will stand on rejoining for a long long time.
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.
I think you're analysis here is pretty accurate, shotty.

It was never true to say, as some did, that all (or even most) of the Leave vote consisted of jingoistic xenophobes and/or racists.

But itt Is true to say that all the jingoistic xenophobes and/or ignorant racists voted Leave. (And at this point I start wondering if certain posters will understand the nuance here...??!!)

Just under half the country were/are unhappy with the result of the referendum. It was close, only an idiot would deny that. There was no huge majority.

A sizeable proportion - I suggested at least half, val suggested "pretty much everyone") - of those who were/are happy with the result aren't happy with the deal.

Perhaps the only people who are happy with how it's all turning out are the jingoistic patriots and/or ignorant racists?
 
Buddha said:
Yeah, spot on Vambo.

The entire framework of the discussion/debate is false and needs rephrasing. Instead of referring to 'Brexit' as if it something that was voted for and has happened, we should instead be discussing/debating the 'Brexit deal'. That's what's happened.

There would at least be some common ground (albeit for completely different reasons) between the Remainers and the most hard line of the Brexiteers; neither have got what they wanted or what they voted for.

In actual fact the only people who seem pleased with the 'Brexit deal' are those who ain't particularly interested in the deal but are insteadmore concerned with telling those who voted Remain that they were wrong and reminding them that they lost the referendum! They're not interested in the details of the deal, they're more concerned with displaying their 'patriotism' by indulging in jingoistic anti-EU rhetoric and pathetic 'French bashing'.
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Not a fact. I`m OK with Brexit and happy to accept that overall gain may be a long-term journey. Consequences of the dreadful COVID pandemic haven`t helped matters. I`d also add that, I might not have voted for Brexit but would not tell current anti-Brexiters that they`re wrong. We all have a right to an opinion - i`m afraid only time will tell how well, or otherwise, Brexit turns out.

Far too much short-termism in politics; i`d be a happier voter if, generally, governments of the day concentrated more on some longer term gain, as opposed to their own, personal, short-term ambitions !
 
But, ultimately, the result was to leave the Eu by a majority.
Had the government not have respected the result that they didn’t want, civil unrest would surely have followed. (That might have suited Buddha . Rise up and all that)
 
jogills said:
That's quite a depressing read if you believe what you are saying GBN. Nothing to do with project fear and I have never suggested armageddon. Of course all parties would like it to work but surely it's dawned that we have the most to lose if it does not. Our approach so far and such as it is isn't working and shows no sign of working., Surely we can do better than this. If 6 years on is early stages I wonder how many years that excuse for inaction will persist.
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So what would you regard as not "working", at this early stage?

Very early in the piece, the EU made it clear that they would not allow us to "cherry pick" what we liked about membership. We could not stay in the single market and control migration as well. Everyone knew that. We could not stay in the Customs union without accepting EU legislation and tariff rates, that we would have no say in any more, and would affect our Trade Deals elsewhere. Would that really have been sensible?

The main grumble seems to have been about the protocol but our approach to that has been equitable - quite the opposite of the EU. We have suggested light touch and spot checks, we have suggested Green lanes and Red lanes. We have not called for the EU to set up a hard border for goods between the ROI and the rest of the EU, and yet they have insisted on setting up a hard border for goods between NI and the rest of the UK. In any other universe, who is being unreasonable there?

As for "most to lose", the statistics about balance of trade is very clear. The EU exports FAR more to the UK than vice versa. Spain, Italy and Greece really heavily on Tourism from the UK and the events at Dover tends to suggest that France needs it as well. They will obviously lose a lot through last week's action but they are clearly happy to shoot themselves in the foot. Plenty of beautiful places in the UK to take a break.
 
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