Police on police bullying and racism (FAO nobs, partly) | Page 5 | Vital Football

Police on police bullying and racism (FAO nobs, partly)

Nobby_66 said:
Support from management at last and an explanation of "that apology".

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...incidents-caught-on-video-says-senior-officer
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The first headline is the one that often sticks, a fact that politicians know well. I have become much less quick to judge these stories and expect others have too. Smartphone clips had an instant truth in the beginning but we are wiser now and even police footage from body cameras doesn't always tell the full story.

A much more complex debate surrounds why certain groups find themselves engaged in these encounters so much more than others. We need to stop making the police take all the flak for decisions the rest of us have made, or failed to make around that.

I recall the several threads we have had on knife crime, which often centre on race, youth, parenting and punishment. Each stabbing has its moment in the spotlight, headlined to emphasise our current obsessions, and then sinks into the mountain of old stories. In many cases, after a period of time, a smaller page 8 story tells a sadder tale. The perpetrator has been sectioned under The Mental Health Act. I don't know if anyone has requested statistics on this under Freedom of Information but they should.
 
jogills said:
The first headline is the one that often sticks, a fact that politicians know well. I have become much less quick to judge these stories and expect others have too. Smartphone clips had an instant truth in the beginning but we are wiser now and even police footage from body cameras doesn't always tell the full story.

A much more complex debate surrounds why certain groups find themselves engaged in these encounters so much more than others. We need to stop making the police take all the flak for decisions the rest of us have made, or failed to make around that.

I recall the several threads we have had on knife crime, which often centre on race, youth, parenting and punishment. Each stabbing has its moment in the spotlight, headlined to emphasise our current obsessions, and then sinks into the mountain of old stories. In many cases, after a period of time, a smaller page 8 story tells a sadder tale. The perpetrator has been sectioned under The Mental Health Act. I don't know if anyone has requested statistics on this under Freedom of Information but they should.
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Spot on Jo re mental health. I posted the other day about the percentage of terrorists/planned terrorists in the UK that suffered poor mental health. As i said at the time, they are much more impressionable and open to suggestion or, as its called, radicalisation.
 
Nobby_66 said:
Spot on Jo re mental health. I posted the other day about the percentage of terrorists/planned terrorists in the UK that suffered poor mental health. As i said at the time, they are much more impressionable and open to suggestion or, as its called, radicalisation.
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In 2018 there were 6507 suicides in the UK, if terrorist organizations could turn just 1% of people with a pre-existing suicide potential it becomes very scary.
 
valenciagill said:
I still think Dick shouldn't have apologized , at least (and only if needed) till the IOPC investigation was concluded.
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Agree absolutely, the "apology" was inappropriate and an OTT, misplaced effort at mollification. Especially considering she would have been briefed as to the precise circumstances of the incident and would have known that there were no misconduct issues.

Cressida Dick is a very good communicator and popular with some Conservative politicians; Dick worked in HMG`s Foreign Office for a while. In my view she was a good appointment as Commissioner. The challenge for her , I suppose, has been to maintain a stance truly independent of politics. Police chiefs should be independent of politics, or, to be more specific, operationally independent of politicians. Whilst I thought she was a good appointment I don`t think she`s done a great job.

I wouldn`t expect Nobby to express a specific view on this, he cannot , for reasons he understands, but I would venture to suggest that Dick of the Yard is not currently rated the Most Popular Commissioner Ever by a large chunk of her policemen and women.

Probably won`t be too long until Dick moves on and when she does there will be a very public competition to take over her office. One contender will surely be Kent`s current Chief Constable.
 
NOT the Met (London) , but another large police force in England is currently advertising for an "Assistant Director Fairness and Belonging" to "lead a Fairness and Belonging agenda, strategy and plan to underpin delivery of workforce vision and values, and a ‘This Work Matters’ strategy.

The successful applicant (hurry hurry - closing date is 8th January) will oversee improved inclusive culture throughout the workplace – encouraging the integration of initiatives in the force.

The successful applicant will also see her/him managing all inclusion issues relating to operational Force activity, as the recognised expert in the field. They`ll also lead and develop their people which includes a team of Diversity & Inclusion practitioners and the Fairness in Policing team, but their influence will be felt across the Force. " Salary: £74,340

Does this sound like good value for money ? Genuine question.
 
You are entering a mine field their lancs. Its the modern world. I have undertaken mandatory multiple D&I training and unconscious bias training in my job.

I'm not really a fan but some of it does make you look at things differently. I remember watching a video and you had to write down what you saw.

In the video a man walks in followed by a women who is walking a few yards behind him. The man is wearing shoes but the women is barefoot. The man sits on the chair but the women sits on the floor. There is a plate of food, the man eats from it and then passes what's left to the women who eats from it. The man then pushes down on the womens head many times . So describe what you saw.


Unsurprisingly most people write down that the women is subservient, the man is dominating her, some say bullying/abusing her e.g. no shoes and feeding her his leftovers.


In reality in this tribes society women are dominant and men are subservient. The man walks in first to check that the room is safe for the women to enter. This tribe worship mother earth, so only the women is allowed to walk on or sit on mother earth directly, men must have something between them and mother earth e.g. feet covered and the chair. The man of course is checking that the food is safe to eat before the women eats it. The pushing down on the women's head is because the man wishes to pray to mother earth but can only do so through the women as he is not worthy of direct contact with mother earth.


It does just show you that our perception of the world is not the same as other peoples. That said not relevant to the UK police force job but thought I'd share as it was one of the few things that made an impact on me.
 
Interesting, cheers Mark. Having sat through that particular module it`s probable that you`d make it through the paper-sift for the above job of Assistant Director Fairness and Belonging.
I might apply, but only to find out how much the actual Director is paid ! The concept of the role is nothing new to the world of policing, but the job title kind of amused me as, even for the police, it sounds too artificial and pat-on-the-back patronising......
 
markinkent said:
You are entering a mine field their lancs. Its the modern world. I have undertaken mandatory multiple D&I training and unconscious bias training in my job.

I'm not really a fan but some of it does make you look at things differently. I remember watching a video and you had to write down what you saw.

In the video a man walks in followed by a women who is walking a few yards behind him. The man is wearing shoes but the women is barefoot. The man sits on the chair but the women sits on the floor. There is a plate of food, the man eats from it and then passes what's left to the women who eats from it. The man then pushes down on the womens head many times . So describe what you saw.


Unsurprisingly most people write down that the women is subservient, the man is dominating her, some say bullying/abusing her e.g. no shoes and feeding her his leftovers.


In reality in this tribes society women are dominant and men are subservient. The man walks in first to check that the room is safe for the women to enter. This tribe worship mother earth, so only the women is allowed to walk on or sit on mother earth directly, men must have something between them and mother earth e.g. feet covered and the chair. The man of course is checking that the food is safe to eat before the women eats it. The pushing down on the women's head is because the man wishes to pray to mother earth but can only do so through the women as he is not worthy of direct contact with mother earth.


It does just show you that our perception of the world is not the same as other peoples. That said not relevant to the UK police force job but thought I'd share as it was one of the few things that made an impact on me.[/QUOTE
Nah! Witch doctor (man) has been spinning a line. Some people are so gullible.
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Nobby_66 said:
I haven't read the article but I will just say what I said in another thread a few weeks ago. In over 20+ years as a copper, I have never seen or heard anything that would be described as racist language/behaviour from a colleague. I've had this conversation a lot recently and have specifically asked a humber of my black colleagues the same question. I've only been told of one example of an officer displaying racist tendencies and he was sacked.

I've never worked closely enough with a PCSO to know if they have any problems.
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Good post Nobby. I'm not claiming it doesn't exist but my contact in Westminster says she hasn't experienced any in the 2+ years she's been in the force. Still some blatantly sexist behaviour including some senior officers to junior females that they get away with.
 
I just watched dragons den and the pitch for the social media reputational risk scanner.

I'll never get another job again !!!
 
Let's be honest for a moment; we all tend to generalise and stereotype. Life would be well nigh impossible if we literally never did. Policemen and women are on the good and the bad end of that process dependent on events and the person judging. I have an elder half sister, who defends all forms of authority to the hilt, no ifs no buts. In her mind anyone interacting with the police is under suspicion before engagement and guilty thereafter. I also have a friend, who can hardly wait to condemn police behaviour and presumes them all macho, prejudiced and corrupt. Both of them treat people with respect and are more than averagely generous and well meaning.

It's barmy that we judge individuals by association, employment, address, ethnicity, gender, or whatever. It pays to remind oneself of the individuals and just how various they are. I had a policeman as a neighbour in Leeds and knew him fairly well, his experience broadened my perceptions. He was of Pakistani heritage and from Dewsbury but lived and worked in Leeds getting a hard time from his family and childhood friends, racism from all quarters and little thanks. He did good and difficult work, believed in what he did but occasionally despaired.
 
jogills said:
Let's be honest for a moment; we all tend to generalise and stereotype. Life would be well nigh impossible if we literally never did. Policemen and women are on the good and the bad end of that process dependent on events and the person judging. I have an elder half sister, who defends all forms of authority to the hilt, no ifs no buts. In her mind anyone interacting with the police is under suspicion before engagement and guilty thereafter. I also have a friend, who can hardly wait to condemn police behaviour and presumes them all macho, prejudiced and corrupt. Both of them treat people with respect and are more than averagely generous and well meaning.

It's barmy that we judge individuals by association, employment, address, ethnicity, gender, or whatever. It pays to remind oneself of the individuals and just how various they are. I had a policeman as a neighbour in Leeds and knew him fairly well, his experience broadened my perceptions. He was of Pakistani heritage and from Dewsbury but lived and worked in Leeds getting a hard time from his family and childhood friends, racism from all quarters and little thanks. He did good and difficult work, believed in what he did but occasionally despaired.
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Can you tell your half sister that The Met are recruiting please? 😉
 
LockdownLife said:
Not this Christmas but as an example - https://www.manchestereveningnews.c.../harrys-world-turned-upside-down-17478580.amp
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That's a good deed, no doubt about it, LL. But not quite the same in its the victim rather than the 'criminal' who is in receipt of the good deed. (Please don't misunderstand, I'm not for a moment saying that the victim is not more deserving, often they most defintely would be).

Personally I don't equate house burglary with shop-lifting, even if the house burglar is doing it for the same reason as the shop-lifter (i.e. to feed their family).

A thief is a thief. But some do it for a profit and some for a meal. For me, those who steal because they need to eat are simply not comparable to those who steal for personal profit.

And of those who steal to eat, those who steal from large corporations are not really comparable with those who steal from individauls (whether that be from a small independent business or a private residence - though the latter are worse, in my opinion, because not only are they committing theft, they are also intruders into the most personal and private spaces, i.e. people's homes).
 
According to my contact, lots of BAME officers face dogs abuse from their own communities. Some have been disowned by their own families ffs.

The Met is genuinely trying to progress and is hampered by these attitudes. The dodgy practices of the past haven't helped as I am well aware of what a lot (not a majority of course) of the police were like since I came to London in the late 70's
 
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