Not Latics - Euros. | Page 9 | Vital Football

Not Latics - Euros.

I think Southgate has fell into the trap all England managers do.
After the honeymoon period and expectation rises they panic and get scared to play the form and more skillful players.
Finding themselves stuck in a rut of playing the same old faces.
 
Hampton said:
Th
Well done Scotland (hope you've done the right thing and paid up T&C)- Clarke had Southgate on toast tactically - honestly believe the England players are being placed in straight jackets because they are way way better than that - whenever did you see James be so timid and negative in a latics shirt as an example.
That said the Scottish celebrations at the end were on a par with Barnsley celebrating the fake escape or Blackburn on coming second in L1 - embarrassing
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Embarrassing it may well be Hampton but when media outlets, pundits n fans are saying 'we should be beating the likes of Scotland' or automatically assuming it's 3 points in the bag & onto the next game with scant regard to the opposition then we will always celebrate any small kind of result over England.
In the same way we slag off the likes of City / Utd/ Liverpool for never giving little ole Wigan any respect, a fair majority of England supporters / MEDIA etc do the exact same.....I mean you will no doubt get out of the group, you may then get a good result from your next opponents which will once again see the 'it's coming home' frenzy & attitude of how great you are with barely a mention to your opposition.....
 
I say this from a neutral (Welsh), stand point, but this is the systematic failure of English football. Having watched the Martinez documentary, it's clear that the whole of Belgium has bought into his long term project (I think they even mentioned 2026 as their target year). They expect some immediate, relative success, but they're happy to understand the peaks and troughs of football and that it all works towards a bigger picture. England are world beaters one minute and garbage the next - Kalvin Phillips being a prime example of hero to zero mentality. These young kids with the big and exciting future gave everyone hope in 2018. They've been given 3 years and 1 tournament before being written off. At least give them the benefit of the next world cup.

As far as the game goes, it was drab with limited quality shown. Scotland worked hard and actually played some decent stuff. England's love of holding midfielders and refusal to take risks didn't allow them to find that extra kick that they needed to put Scotland on the back foot
 
Kendal Blue said:
I say this from a neutral (Welsh), stand point, but this is the systematic failure of English football. Having watched the Martinez documentary, it's clear that the whole of Belgium has bought into his long term project (I think they even mentioned 2026 as their target year). They expect some immediate, relative success, but they're happy to understand the peaks and troughs of football and that it all works towards a bigger picture. England are world beaters one minute and garbage the next - Kalvin Phillips being a prime example of hero to zero mentality. These young kids with the big and exciting future gave everyone hope in 2018. They've been given 3 years and 1 tournament before being written off. At least give them the benefit of the next world cup.

As far as the game goes, it was drab with limited quality shown. Scotland worked hard and actually played some decent stuff. England's love of holding midfielders and refusal to take risks didn't allow them to find that extra kick that they needed to put Scotland on the back foot
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Nicely put KB.....👏👏👏👏👏
 
Kendal Blue said:
I say this from a neutral (Welsh), stand point, but this is the systematic failure of English football. Having watched the Martinez documentary, it's clear that the whole of Belgium has bought into his long term project (I think they even mentioned 2026 as their target year). They expect some immediate, relative success, but they're happy to understand the peaks and troughs of football and that it all works towards a bigger picture. England are world beaters one minute and garbage the next - Kalvin Phillips being a prime example of hero to zero mentality. These young kids with the big and exciting future gave everyone hope in 2018. They've been given 3 years and 1 tournament before being written off. At least give them the benefit of the next world cup.

As far as the game goes, it was drab with limited quality shown. Scotland worked hard and actually played some decent stuff. England's love of holding midfielders and refusal to take risks didn't allow them to find that extra kick that they needed to put Scotland on the back foot
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Every year with Southgate and his project is another wasted year...nearly every decision was a WTF moment.

Just listened to Southgate on the box and he says at times we were too frantic...what ?.. too fecking frantic, what game was he watching.
 
jocklatic said:
Embarrassing it may well be Hampton but when media outlets, pundits n fans are saying 'we should be beating the likes of Scotland' or automatically assuming it's 3 points in the bag & onto the next game with scant regard to the opposition then we will always celebrate any small kind of result over England.
In the same way we slag off the likes of City / Utd/ Liverpool for never giving little ole Wigan any respect, a fair majority of England supporters / MEDIA etc do the exact same.....I mean you will no doubt get out of the group, you may then get a good result from your next opponents which will once again see the 'it's coming home' frenzy & attitude of how great you are with barely a mention to your opposition.....
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Very fair point Jock- personally never bought the coming home bollocks not since 96 when it was a real potential.
As I said thought Scotland played to the max as it should be in any game never mind a derby and not surprised at the result hence why I asked if you had the draw in yr bet earlier in the week.
Having thought it through from an England perspective either Southgate is utter gash or a tactical genius pitching for second in the group. It's probably that he's utter gash mind.
 
jocklatic said:
Embarrassing it may well be Hampton but when media outlets, pundits n fans are saying 'we should be beating the likes of Scotland' or automatically assuming it's 3 points in the bag & onto the next game with scant regard to the opposition then we will always celebrate any small kind of result over England.
In the same way we slag off the likes of City / Utd/ Liverpool for never giving little ole Wigan any respect, a fair majority of England supporters / MEDIA etc do the exact same.....I mean you will no doubt get out of the group, you may then get a good result from your next opponents which will once again see the 'it's coming home' frenzy & attitude of how great you are with barely a mention to your opposition.....
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To be fair Jock if you compare the squads with a neutral head then there’s probably only two or three Robertson, McGinn for sure who would force their way into the England squad. As such when analysing any game realistically the better players should win (accepting there’s far more to it than that).

There’s no problem with believing we’ll win a tournament but any realistic England fan knows there are 5 or 6 better teams and it won’t happen. I don’t see a frenzy in that regard and the pundits I have seen were equally as angry with that piss poor display as any fan. England generally fall to pieces at major tournaments such as France five years ago, Brazil seven years back and we do under achieve. Bottom line we are mediocre, lack technical ability, don’t have a winning mentality, are paralysed with fear when it matters and are hamstring further at present by such an uninspiring manager more interested in outside issues than he is kicking players up the backside and motivating them. There’s been some shocking performances over the years that are eventually forgotten, that diabolical effort last night won’t be, it was an embarrassment. You cannot oversee a performance like that against the country’s oldest rival in such a big game and expect to stay on so Southgate should be sacked or have the dignity to resign once we exit in the next round as there’s no coming back from that.
 
Who wants to top the group.
Scotland wanted it more.
British players, game become a British league game. England played at the Scottish level?

Did not see the game, but agree, I do not know who the majority of this lot play for.
 
jocklatic said:
Embarrassing it may well be Hampton but when media outlets, pundits n fans are saying 'we should be beating the likes of Scotland' or automatically assuming it's 3 points in the bag & onto the next game with scant regard to the opposition then we will always celebrate any small kind of result over England.
In the same way we slag off the likes of City / Utd/ Liverpool for never giving little ole Wigan any respect, a fair majority of England supporters / MEDIA etc do the exact same.....I mean you will no doubt get out of the group, you may then get a good result from your next opponents which will once again see the 'it's coming home' frenzy & attitude of how great you are with barely a mention to your opposition.....
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But why do the media talk like this about England? The overpaid posers have failed over and over again? Especially last night, why on earth would the media expect anything more than what they saw? Only real difference in why they should expect more from an England side than a Scotland side is that the English have more players to choose from.
 
Made in Wigan said:
To be fair Jock if you compare the squads with a neutral head then there’s probably only two or three Robertson, McGinn for sure who would force their way into the England squad. As such when analysing any game realistically the better players should win (accepting there’s far more to it than that).

There’s no problem with believing we’ll win a tournament but any realistic England fan knows there are 5 or 6 better teams and it won’t happen. I don’t see a frenzy in that regard and the pundits I have seen were equally as angry with that piss poor display as any fan. England generally fall to pieces at major tournaments such as France five years ago, Brazil seven years back and we do under achieve. Bottom line we are mediocre, lack technical ability, don’t have a winning mentality, are paralysed with fear when it matters and are hamstring further at present by such an uninspiring manager more interested in outside issues than he is kicking players up the backside and motivating them. There’s been some shocking performances over the years that are eventually forgotten, that diabolical effort last night won’t be, it was an embarrassment. You cannot oversee a performance like that against the country’s oldest rival in such a big game and expect to stay on so Southgate should be sacked or have the dignity to resign once we exit in the next round as there’s no coming back from that.
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Agree with u there n perhaps you are a tad kind on our players who cud make it into the England squad....perhaps Robertson being the only one imo. If we had similar talent at our disposal that England have I'm sure we'd do so much better but alas we will always been choosing from a very small pool...unlike yourselves who have an Olympic size pool to pick from. 😉
 
Wonder if Southgate just watched Germany go at Portugal as the best way to protect a suspect defence.
Imagine if he'd have encouraged James and Shaw to get forward rather than not to cross the h/w line at all last night 🙄
 
Fraudgate is nowhere near the level expected of a national league coach. Remember Southgate got sacked while in division 2 with a 29% win rate at Middlesbrough whom he relegated. Him alongside that shocking non league level U21 manager is everything wrong with the English game, 80s football mindset. Until the FA get their heads out the sand and actually start to build the national team with modern philosophies and actual decent staff, we will have a chance.

The attacking talent is absolutely wasted under Fraudgate

Also I said at the time and I will say it again, how we got to the semis was a matter of how the feck, and not pure on the pitch brilliance. Won 3 Drawn 2, and Lost 2 after 90 minutes in that tournament and as soon as we came up vs a half-decent side we lost.
 
jocklatic said:
Agree with u there n perhaps you are a tad kind on our players who cud make it into the England squad....perhaps Robertson being the only one imo. If we had similar talent at our disposal that England have I'm sure we'd do so much better but alas we will always been choosing from a very small pool...unlike yourselves who have an Olympic size pool to pick from. 😉
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If the English players, played with half the passion and with the attitude of the Scottish players, we might have a chance.
I honestly can't remember seeing a team as dull, boring and negative as England in this tournament so far.
 
Tree and Crown said:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjo5OPSq6PxAhWlB2MBHdjHDxIQjBAwAnoECAYQAQ&url=http://www.josephsgoal.org/how-to-donate/&usg=AOvVaw2CDKemOtDda3JZQAeeH_tO

No need to Jock, i threw down the gauntlet, gave you the draw and i lost. No hard feelings from me, i hope the same from you when you men are turfed out of the competition on Tuesday. :wave:
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Matched your donation n I'll still be cheering on the lads Tuesday n hoping of all hope that we can spring a surprise on the Croats...:cheers:
 
Jonnysking said:
If the English players, played with half the passion and with the attitude of the Scottish players, we might have a chance.
I honestly can't remember seeing a team as dull, boring and negative as England in this tournament so far.
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Very Cook like is Southgate.
 
N"Zogbia's fan club said:
Typical Wigan supporters - one average England game & it is all doom and gloom.
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One average England game. We’ve not beaten an elite side at a major tournament since 2002. We’re a country of losers when it comes to football. It’s in our DNA both players and fans. When you consider the money at our disposal it’s an absolute disgrace to be honest.
 
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