radfordinlondon
Vital Football Legend
How many loanees started last night?
I wasnt so much pointing to the one game but the impact on the squad of having people in the first team that wont be there in 6months.
How many loanees started last night?
You do have to wonder why the likes of Arter, Colback, Knockhaert, Freeman, Cafu and Taylor have underachieved so badly, after appearing to be good signings.
Have we still got a much better win/draw/lose ratio when Sow's on the team or has his magic faded?
Here are Forest's league results when Sow has started.
This doesn't indicate whether he was subbed off the field at any point:
Huddsersfield - lost - 0/3 points
Coventry - won - 3/6 points
Wycombe - won - 6/9 points
Norwich - lost - 6/12 points
Sheff Wed - won - 9/15 points
Millwall - draw - 10/18 points
Birmingham - draw - 11/21 points
Stoke - draw - 12/24 points
Preston - won - 15/27 points
Millwall - won 18/30 points
Middlesbrough - lost - 18/33 points
- So 54.5% of points gained when he's started.
- IF he could start every game, (unlikely now at his age) across an entire league season that equates to 75 points - a guaranteed play-off place.
- Forest have only picked up 7 other points elsewhere this season.
- He was subbed on at Blackburn, that was Hughton's first win with Lolley scoring around the 90th min mark (as i recall forest were under the cosh...maybe Sow made a difference with his inclusion?)
It could be argued, indirectly, Big Samba has been involved in 21 of the 25 points won by forest this season.
- Of his sub appearances, that's resulted in 1 win / 2 losses when subbed on, so 33.3% points gained.
Obviously(!) its a team game; and how individual players influence or interact with one another is .intangible.
But, just for fun :), i had a look at Yates stats in the same manner...
(the highlighted section is the run of games where Sow has started. Maybe "Young Ryan" is a positive influence on reckless Samba :)!
In short, Sow is essential to staying in the league this season...
View attachment 45295
Here are Forest's league results when Sow has started.
This doesn't indicate whether he was subbed off the field at any point:
Huddsersfield - lost - 0/3 points
Coventry - won - 3/6 points
Wycombe - won - 6/9 points
Norwich - lost - 6/12 points
Sheff Wed - won - 9/15 points
Millwall - draw - 10/18 points
Birmingham - draw - 11/21 points
Stoke - draw - 12/24 points
Preston - won - 15/27 points
Millwall - won 18/30 points
Middlesbrough - lost - 18/33 points
- So 54.5% of points gained when he's started.
- IF he could start every game, (unlikely now at his age) across an entire league season that equates to 75 points - a guaranteed play-off place.
- Forest have only picked up 7 other points elsewhere this season.
- He was subbed on at Blackburn, that was Hughton's first win with Lolley scoring around the 90th min mark (as i recall forest were under the cosh...maybe Sow made a difference with his inclusion?)
It could be argued, indirectly, Big Samba has been involved in 21 of the 25 points won by forest this season.
- Of his sub appearances, that's resulted in 1 win / 2 losses when subbed on, so 33.3% points gained.
Obviously(!) its a team game; and how individual players influence or interact with one another is .intangible.
But, just for fun :), i had a look at Yates stats in the same manner...
(the highlighted section is the run of games where Sow has started. Maybe "Young Ryan" is a positive influence on reckless Samba :)!
In short, Sow is essential to staying in the league this season...
View attachment 45298
Here is a summary of his actual performances this season, taken from various sources:
Huddersfield Away – Rating 5
A clumsy, erratic performance from Sow who on another night could have been sent off in the first half-an-hour.
Bristol City Home – Rating 5
68th minute substitute for Arter; little impact but the damage had already been done.
Blackburn Away – Rating ?
90th minutes substitution for Lolley
Coventry Home – Rating 6
A decent first half despite being booked in the first 15 minutes but faded towards the end of the half; lost his man which resulted in Coventry’s goal, substituted shortly after
Wycombe Home – Rating 5
Another clumsy and erratic performance which resulted in his substitution at Half Time; Sow appears to have fitness issues.
Reading Away – Rating 6
60th minute substitute for Arter; very good 30 minute cameo role compared to what had come before.
Norwich Away – Rating 5
Same old Sow! Booked after 25 minutes largely ineffectual thereafter.
Sheffield Wednesday Home – Rating 9
Fantastic performance; Sow at his very best
Millwall Away – Rating 7
Stood up well to MiIllwall’s physical threat, harshly booked; Christie slips, Sow loses his man and we are one down.
Birmingham Home – Rating 6
Battled and broke up play really well, disciplined performance; Birmingham could not get a foothold into the game whilst he was on the pitch – substituted on the hour mark
Stoke Away – Rating 7, possible 8
Much more like it from Sow, bossed the midfield and got better as the game progressed.
Preston Away – Rating 6
Back to type for Sow, booked after 20 minutes largely ineffective thereafter
Millwall Home – Rating 8
Great performance from Sow, won the physical battle in the middle of the park along with Yates; showed great tenacity to set up Ameobi’s first goal.
Middlesbrough Home - Rating 4
Shocking performance from Sow, early booking did not help but the ensuing headless chicken act was embarrassing to watch.
Even though the ratings are largely subjective, the comments are very much on the mark; which just goes to show the reality does not always match up to the myth.
You've said this stuff is subjective: correct.
Stats are not. I said IF he could stay fit, and the points gained with Sow starting a match was replicated over an entire season the STATS show a 75 point tally.
Would Sow play 46 games? Probably not, however, the numbers and returns are correct.
Compare this to his numbers last season, and they're broadly in line.
The only myth here is you believing that subjective opinion is not a myth!
No the myth is that Sow's inclusion in the team is in some way connected to us winning games when for most of the time that is clearly not the case.
There have been many instances were we have won games despite him being in the side and not because of it.
When is head is right he is a good player; unfortunately those days are few and far between.
Attempting to draw a comparison between him being in the side and picking up points, without analysing his individual performances during those games, is just lazy, facile, and in this instance, massively inaccurate.
And yet I would argue with anyone that Yates has had a better season for us than Sow. One of about 3 players to emerge with any real credit this season along with Worrall and McKenna.
Everything you've said is entirely subjective.
Try and understand that all the numbers show is a correlation between his inclusion and a points return.
Do you have anything to say regarding Yates' numbers?
Should they too be disregarded?
Again, i flagged that an individuals impact within a team environment is intangible...all i was demonstrating here is a statistical correlation: and, conversely, a correlation in the opposite way with Yates.
Yes but that does not matter; and it certainly does not matter how players perform.
What matters is how long we can perpetuate the myth that we win games when Sow is in the side and we dont when he is not, and completely over look his actual contribution in those games, which is, on the whole, incredibly suspect.
If, and if is a huge fucking word in this instance, Sow turned in performances at around 70% of his capabilities he would be close to being the first name down each week, unfortunately that happens only 5 or 6 times a season.
He struggles to perform to 30% of his capabilities most of the time and I think that is the catalyst for his stupid behaviour in those games.
Out of his 14 appearances this season, only 4 have been anything like good enough, 6 have been totally unacceptable, with 3 appearances from the bench 2 of which were reasonable.
Serious question: Do you actually go to the games? (or watch them on ifollow during the lockdown)
Is it it a myth if the data strongly suggests otherwise? How does the rest of the team play when he's in the side?
Serious question: Do you actually go to the games? (or watch them on ifollow during the lockdown)