Match Thread, Forest v Middlesboro, are we on the up?

[mao tse tung]

How is that not a serious question...?

Anyways, yes, do you?

Yes, in most instances I will also watch the full game replay a day or two afterwards

What I cannot understand is why you cannot articulate a football related argument without having to use meaningless data

 

[mao tse tung]

Don't take this the wrong way, but i think you're entirely missing the point of data sets and statistical analysis.

Its irrefutable what the data shows, how you choose to interpret it is subjective, as i've flagged.
I've shown that when Sow starts Forest have gained 18 points. If that same data is transposed over a 46 game season, the net result is 75 points. That is a fact.

However, you're applying a wholly subjective set of values to appraising performance data, but at the same time suggesting this subjective set of values is somehow objective...

Missing the point!

You are the one with the meaningless numbers ffs

Transposing numbers is something an 8 year old would do; it is fictitious, imaginary and childish.

Try breaking down Sow's contribution in the games he has played in; something you just will not do because it totally destroys your argument

 

[BlackGold]

Yes, in most instances I will watch the full game replay a day or two afterwards

What I cannot understand is why you cannot articulate a football related argument without having to use meaningless data

As sad as it is, i will also watch the full-match replays...

If i make a point about Sow's "footballing" contribution, it would be entirely subjective, which is the point i'm trying to make about the data - it is just numbers, how you interpret the data is up to you.
I presented two contrasting data sets, and gave you my conclusion.

Whether you think the data is bunkum, then so be it; but your arguments to the contrary are entirely opinion (not data) driven, so subjective.

You gave the example of Sow being subbed off against Coventry leading to the goals scored.
How about, my opinion is, his harrying of the opponents drained their energy, thus allowing a last minute breakaway goal for Taylor...can i prove any of that? No, i can't and it would be folly to argue something so intangible.

Yet subjective opinions are somehow more valid.

As said, the data is there and i've made my own assettment from that.

 

[BlackGold]

Missing the point!

You are the one with the meaningless numbers ffs

Transposing numbers is something an 8 year old would do; it is fictitious, imaginary and childish.

Try breaking down Sow's contribution in the games he has played in; something you just will not do because it totally destroys your argument

I can find the stats if you wish, but i think this is something you might find more useful.

Again, how you take the numbers is entirely up to you.
The pattern of data is there, and carries over from last season.

If you can't see a coherence of Sows participation in games and the positives results that follow, then thats on you.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

In the context quoted the data is ludicrous.

The rest of the team played well enough at Preston when he was quite poor, they were not too bad against Wycombe when he was atrocious, it took his removal from the side to get us back into the game against Coventry - there's three wins this season where the sum total of his contribution was gifting Coventry their equaliser.

There is no question he has a huge positive impact on the side when he plays with a degree of intelligence, we just do not see that too often; not often enough.

There is also no question of the negative impact he has when he plays badly and that is something we cannot afford to carry; Wednesday nights antics were unacceptable and its not the first instance.

But dont let that stop you manipulating meaningless data; he probably has telepathic qualities we do not know about, or could it be the players have out of body experiences when he is close by, whatever it is, it is not related to his performances.

I'm not manipulating any data chum, I've not provided any.

It seems a reasonable question to ask given our hugely improved win ratio with him in the side how his presence effects other players performance.

 

[BlackGold]

I'm not manipulating any data chum, I've not provided any.

It seems a reasonable question to ask given our hugely improved win ratio with him in the side how his presence effects other players performance.

EXACTLY...

I've been trying to state its a team game, but an individuals impact can be suggested based on a simple set of numbers

To then disregard a clear trend is, well, strange...

 

[mao tse tung]

I'm not manipulating any data chum, I've not provided any.

It seems a reasonable question to ask given our hugely improved win ratio with him in the side how his presence effects other players performance.[/QUOT

The win ratio with him in the side is purely coincidental.

I had serious reservations on this subject when it was circulating last season, so I decided to go into his performances in some detail.

Go back and evaluate his performances over this season and you will see that he has not performed well at all.

It is perfectly reasonable to theorise that his presence may be sufficient to bring out more in those around him; there is nothing in what he actually does to confirm that - he really is not that good a player that his mere presence on the pitch provides that missing "x" factor which generates that extra 5% from those around him.

In fact there are plenty of examples where he has been a drag on the team, and then there's the adverse effect he has on Referees and how that rubs off on the rest of the team.

 

[mao tse tung]

EXACTLY...

I've been trying to state its a team game, but an individuals impact can be suggested based on a simple set of numbers

To then disregard a clear trend is, well, strange...

Wouldnt you be better suited to Trainspotting?

I hear there are some nice Stations in London

 

[BlackGold]

Wouldnt you be better suited to Trainspotting?

I hear there are some nice Stations in London

Bit of an 80s thing there. And there are other more edgy pursuits that surround the collection of Stats in the 21st century...but fair enough!

Good work, grandad!

 

[paz1967]

Just re noticed "are we on the up?" and burst out laughing

 

[paz1967]

In the context quoted the data is ludicrous.

The rest of the team played well enough at Preston when he was quite poor, they were not too bad against Wycombe when he was atrocious, it took his removal from the side to get us back into the game against Coventry - there's three wins this season where the sum total of his contribution was gifting Coventry their equaliser.

There is no question he has a huge positive impact on the side when he plays with a degree of intelligence, we just do not see that too often; not often enough.

There is also no question of the negative impact he has when he plays badly and that is something we cannot afford to carry; Wednesday nights antics were unacceptable and its not the first instance.

But dont let that stop you manipulating meaningless data; he probably has telepathic qualities we do not know about, or could it be the players have out of body experiences when he is close by, whatever it is, it is not related to his performances.

Are you still debating what is a blatant fact that we are a much better side with Sow in it? In fact it seems we rarely win without him, last season or this. You can dismiss stats but points are stats and we get far more points with him in the side. The player scores per game are the bollox stats as that is always personal, but points say it all