HS2 bollox or bollox? | Page 3 | Vital Football

HS2 bollox or bollox?

Therealwaldo said:
Through trains to Amsterdam are already operating. There used to be a change for immigration control in Lille but there are now passport checks in Amsterdam so it’s a non stop service. Through trains to Germany appear to have been scuppered for the time being by Brexit. However, travelling to Germany is easy. You just to have to change between two platforms at Brussels Midi to pick up the TGV/Thalys train for Liege, Aachen and Cologne. Leave at 7 am from Ebbsfleet arrive in Cologne by noon.
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None of that accounts for the fact that HS1 is way under-utilised compared with predictions due in a great part to the road lobby having its way. St Pancras is full to bursting point having to cope with Eurostar, Midland Mainline and SE Trains with no more than 3/4 platforms each.
 
Wayne.Kerr said:
Yes but he has concerns that there is nothing defined for the HS lines north of Birmingham and on that basis connections between Manchester, Bradford and Leeds etc are a priority. Jeez I live there and it's in the press and local news daily.
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I hear a lot of chip on the shoulders northerners whining about lack of investment on trains “oop north” compared to the investment in London and the south. Maybe there’s some truth in that, but if their train services are improved and speeded up will they be willing to pay £7000 for a season ticket or £70 for a day return for 50 mile journeys - say Leeds to Manchester - like we do down south?
 
Kent is begging for more Southeastern HS stock and the Government want services to Hastings included in the plans. I’ve always felt get rid of the rounders and instead have a shorter hourly rounder going Fast between St Pancras and Ashford, then Folkestone W&C, Dover, Walmer, Deal, Sandwich, Ramsgate, Canterbury West, Ashford, St Pancras. One going vice versa. Then have another hourly service doing the normal St Pancras to Margate via CBW and Ramsgate, and another hourly normal St Pancras to Dover. These non-rounders stopping at Ebbsfleet and Stratford.

Hourly Maidstone West service, half hourly Medway service, hourly Hastings service. Sure you’ll have no capacity at St Pancras but a man can dream!

I want HS2 built now along with the Leeds and Manchester spin-offs. I completely agree with Wayne that these should’ve been built in the 80s and 90s - FFS France opened up their first line from Paris to Lyon in 85 or 86. They now use their ancient stock as part of a budget service getting you across France for €20-odd if you don’t mind sitting on newly-installed Southeastern mainline seats and can do without a buffet car. We could’ve been doing this, and even Eurostar could’ve been looking at this instead of scrapping half their old fleet.

I’ve done Ebbsfleet to Cologne for a few days and back. A lovely journey time shorter than travelling across England, with an hour or so in one of the bars opposite Brussels Midi.

I hope they actually install a through line from HS2 to HS1. Decimate the flight market. It shouldn’t be a huge fix, I think HS1 was built with it in mind.
 
SteveTreacle said:
I hear a lot of chip on the shoulders northerners whining about lack of investment on trains “oop north” compared to the investment in London and the south. Maybe there’s some truth in that, but if their train services are improved and speeded up will they be willing to pay £7000 for a season ticket or £70 for a day return for 50 mile journeys - say Leeds to Manchester - like we do down south?
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I'll let you know when we get trains that are not 40 years old and limited to three coaches at most; in the meantime, you can campaign for UDI for SE England.
 
Trev_GFC said:
Sure you’ll have no capacity at St Pancras but a man can dream!
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That will be a big stumbling block. Antwerp station, a historic building, was completely rebuilt internally. Instead of trains fanning out in the station throat they diverge to enter platforms on three levels - basement, ground level and upper level, There was space at St Pancras to do this but English Heritage wouldn't let a brick be removed without permission.
 
Wayne.Kerr said:
I'll let you know when we get trains that are not 40 years old and limited to three coaches at most; in the meantime, you can campaign for UDI for SE England.
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Fair enough. And I have no issue with investment in trains and railways across the country and as a higher rate taxpayer don't mind my taxes funding that. However, what I am saying is that it'll also need the users of such improved services to fit the bill too. A lot of of our services in the South East are quicker than those up north (although there ate a lot of inadequacies with our services too). Last time I got the train from Manchester to Leeds a couple of years ago, for example (I was staying in Manchester for a stag do and went to the cricket in Leeds), it took about an hour, which isn't great, but cost me about £7 off peak. For a similar length journey on our better and quicker services on Southeastern, it costs about £35-40 (even the non-HS1 ones) - twice that at peak times. Will people from Leeds, Liverpool or Manchester pay that for a better service or will it just be something else they can moan about?
 
Reasonable point ST.

Maidstone to London 40miles £20
Barnstaple to Exeter 40 miles £11
 
SteveTreacle said:
I hear a lot of chip on the shoulders northerners whining about lack of investment on trains “oop north” compared to the investment in London and the south. Maybe there’s some truth in that, but if their train services are improved and speeded up will they be willing to pay £7000 for a season ticket or £70 for a day return for 50 mile journeys - say Leeds to Manchester - like we do down south?
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Why so combative Steve. Northerners do not have a chip on their shoulders regarding rail services; they endure a crap service. They pay the same taxes and their service has been starved of investment.

Leeds to Manchester & Rainham to London are similar distances apart. £7000 odd will buy you a ST from Rainham to London on all services including HS and travel on zones 1 to 6 in London.

The point is not how tight people are but how well our country is working. At present it creaks almost everywhere beyond the London commuter best and it costs us as a country.
 
SteveTreacle said:
I hear a lot of chip on the shoulders northerners whining about lack of investment on trains “oop north” compared to the investment in London and the south. Maybe there’s some truth in that, but if their train services are improved and speeded up will they be willing to pay £7000 for a season ticket or £70 for a day return for 50 mile journeys - say Leeds to Manchester - like we do down south?
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Steve, I`m as southern as you get, but you`d be whining if you were a train user in the north - north-west. I`ve only lived up here a few years and the trains are absolute crap. In a previous life I was, for a few years, a Kent commuter into London so I know what it`s like to be in crowded carriages etc. The main differences up here include a service which has been so bad as to affect livelihoods. Two close associates of mine were so at risk of losing their jobs through frequent train cancellations that they surrendered their season tickets and now clog up the roads to Manchester with their cars. The rolling stock up here has been a joke for years. There is some transition going on but even that is well behind schedule and we`re going to be stuck with 40+ year old cattle trucks for a while longer. It`s been such a shambles that the Govt has felt it necessary to take over Northern Trains.

The only decent service, until recently, was the main London to Glasgow/Ed west coast route operated by Virgin. But, since Virgin lost its franchise recently the replacement service, by company Avanti West Coast, has been plagued with complaints - they are well below the standard that Virgin provided. This has affected me attending games at Gillingham. With Virgin I could rely on the service, times and get to Priestfield without too much trouble. Since Avanti took over a couple of months back, due to all the issues, I`ve not been down to Kent. My first [reluctant] booking with Avanti for a Priestfield game will in a few weeks for the Accy Stanley game. If that turns out to be as bad an experience as associates of mine have had recently, i`m going to have to severely restrict my trips to Kent by train.

The big problem in the north is the lack of East/West train services. The consensus up here appears to be that HS2 is a secondary priority to fixing the issues of east/west routes. On Virgin I could get to London Euston from Preston in less time than the fastest route took between Preston and York - that`s ridiculous.

I`m all for leaving the car at home and letting the train take the strain - but HMG (of whichever colour) seem to be World Record holders when it comes to Procrastination around infra-structure. For crying out loud - I wish that our Country would just sought out public transport, get it done - all of it - Perhaps we should ask the Chinese to help ; if they can build two hospitals in 10 days perhaps they can spare a couple of months to get HS2 and HS3 done !!!!!!
 
I would be amazed if the West Coast Mainline service has gone to the wall in the few weeks since the new TOC took over - any changes are eventual. The issues are more to do with infrastructure and weather issues which Avanti have had little/no control over.

While the Chinese HS network is something to be proud of it’s worth noting that only a government such as theirs could get away with building something in that manner. Let’s not forget that with such a Government comes other pros and cons...
 
Trev_GFC said:
I would be amazed if the West Coast Mainline service has gone to the wall in the few weeks since the new TOC took over - any changes are eventual. The issues are more to do with infrastructure and weather issues which Avanti have had little/no control over.

While the Chinese HS network is something to be proud of it’s worth noting that only a government such as theirs could get away with building something in that manner. Let’s not forget that with such a Government comes other pros and cons...
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There have been loads of complaints about Avanti, nothing to do with weather or Network Rail. Piss up and brewery come to mind.

Chines are great workers, but I wouldn`t buy their phones.
 
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