HS2 bollox or bollox? | Vital Football

HS2 bollox or bollox?

Wayne.Kerr

Vital Champions League
#1
When HS2 is finally built it will have come about 50 years late. Like our telephone system, the railways are largely a historical legacy that just can't be patched up for the 21st century.

People also talk of connectivity that HS2 will bring. That is a mystery. the designated HS Station in Birmingham is half a mile or more away from New Street; so, any saving in time to reach Birmingham is lost when you want a local connection. Oh yes, Birmingham to Paris will be feasible as long as you don't mind walking from Euston to St PancrasI'm not aware of plans for through routes. Then we have the northern section with no idea when it will start.

HS2 is a Boris diversion because it's 'shovel ready' whereas, many other election promises are even on the drawing board. Plus, he's got 60 or so Tory MPs opposed to HS2.

Of course we need a high speed rail links around the country but we have to stop people talking about upgrading the ECML and WCML or ensuring that local lines and bus services are improved beyond recognition.
 

jokerman

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
The Times had a good piece in it yesterday basically arguing it's not about speed but about capacity. Trying to run goods, locals, and expresses on the same lines is really inefficient.

Wouldn't it be nice if we were the sort of country that could build this up to Scotland and a Hull-Liverpool HS 3 before you and I are dead? When the French do it, everyone says how wonderful their strong state is. When we try, everyone flips out and says, no thanks, we can manage.

They are getting closer to restoring service between Duluth and the Twin Cities. last ran in the 1970's.
 
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Billy Goatham

Vital Youth Team
#3
When HS2 is finally built it will have come about 50 years late. Like our telephone system, the railways are largely a historical legacy that just can't be patched up for the 21st century.

People also talk of connectivity that HS2 will bring. That is a mystery. the designated HS Station in Birmingham is half a mile or more away from New Street; so, any saving in time to reach Birmingham is lost when you want a local connection. Oh yes, Birmingham to Paris will be feasible as long as you don't mind walking from Euston to St PancrasI'm not aware of plans for through routes. Then we have the northern section with no idea when it will start.

HS2 is a Boris diversion because it's 'shovel ready' whereas, many other election promises are even on the drawing board. Plus, he's got 60 or so Tory MPs opposed to HS2.

Of course we need a high speed rail links around the country but we have to stop people talking about upgrading the ECML and WCML or ensuring that local lines and bus services are improved beyond recognition.
I used to think it was bollxx for a long time particularly as it was based on an old economic plan which by and large is now out of date . Interestingly S Korea binned a similar plan in favour of getting broadband to all four corners of their country .
Doing the same here would be more important imho, however, HS2 or a format of, is something that needs to be done ultimately.
Its begun so they may as well continue even though this last ‘ push ‘ has undoubtedly been politically driven.
.....hardly a world shatteringly new happening..
 

shotshy

Vital Squad Member
#4
We can do it all.
HS2 and better links around the country.

If you don't have ambition as a nation, then you might as well all stay in bed.

Yes, it's very expensive.
About the same as our next seven years contributions to the EU, had we voted to remain in it.

Personally, I want to see better verything.
Broadband, transport, social services and so on.
If we can afford to give away billions a year, then we can certainly afford to spend billions here.
 

jokerman

Vital 1st Team Regular
#5
It really is getting hard to keep up. First plane-shaming and train-bragging, and now train-shaming and stop home with 5G bragging.
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital Champions League
#12
The Times had a good piece in it yesterday basically arguing it's not about speed but about capacity. Trying to run goods, locals, and expresses on the same lines is really inefficient.
Yes, capacity is a problem. Try and find a seat on a train to Lancaster. If you're increasing capacity then why not speed up trains.
 

shotshy

Vital Squad Member
#13
Just how is it not a success?
Don't argue.
If WK says it's not been a success, then it's not been a success.

Personally, and having used it on numerous occasions, I'd say it's been hugely successful.

My SIL uses it daily to get to work and Ebbsfleet to London take twenty minutes.
 

jogills

Vital Squad Member
#15
The Times had a good piece in it yesterday basically arguing it's not about speed but about capacity. Trying to run goods, locals, and expresses on the same lines is really inefficient.

Wouldn't it be nice if we were the sort of country that could build this up to Scotland and a Hull-Liverpool HS 3 before you and I are dead? When the French do it, everyone says how wonderful their strong state is. When we try, everyone flips out and says, no thanks, we can manage.

They are getting closer to restoring service between Duluth and the Twin Cities. last ran in the 1970's.
I buy the capacity argument, any use of current lines supports it. I'm just another amateur but my take is that the actual spec is well over the top, hence the cost and the difficulties. Too much spent on the first bit to withdraw but a number of fudges, reviews and waffle will mean anything North of Birmingham will be all about capacity and little to do with speed. That might even allow some more useful stops and connections. There will be endless disaster and glory stories along the way but I hope there is free rail travel for the over 80s by the time it is operational and that I am still breathing.
 

Jerryattrick

Vital Squad Member
#16
Don't argue.
If WK says it's not been a success, then it's not been a success.

Personally, and having used it on numerous occasions, I'd say it's been hugely successful.

My SIL uses it daily to get to work and Ebbsfleet to London take twenty minutes.
I had reservations at first but have used it for long periods when working on different contracts near Brentford, Heathrow and Welling Garden plus short business days in Belgium. Excellent service, hardly any delayed or cancelled trains and every route seems to be highly utilised.
 

ThreeSixes

Vital Squad Member
#17
Birmingham to Paris will be feasible as long as you don't mind walking from Euston to St Pancras
Can people not do that then? It is a 10 minute walk, or one stop on the Northern Line (at least it is if you get on the right train! 😞). Thats what I do if I travel from Manchester to Medway - Birmingham to Paris is a long way, people need to be realistic
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital Champions League
#18
I think where you are making a mistake perhaps is that HS1 is not just Blue trains to St Pancras; you have to consider also Eurostar and freight also use HSI.
 

Jerryattrick

Vital Squad Member
#19
Can people not do that then? It is a 10 minute walk, or one stop on the Northern Line (at least it is if you get on the right train! 😞). Thats what I do if I travel from Manchester to Medway - Birmingham to Paris is a long way, people need to be realistic
Or Victoria line - Euston to HS1 St Pancras 1 stop 5 mins.
 

Jerryattrick

Vital Squad Member
#20
I think where you are making a mistake perhaps is that HS1 is not just Blue trains to St Pancras; you have to consider also Eurostar and freight also use HSI.
Yes, I use it frequently unless I am lucky enough to get the Brussels train from Ebbsfleet.

The only issue for me is that unless you have a cheap advance ticket its f expensive (not an issue when going for work).