General politics thread: | Page 4 | Vital Football

General politics thread:

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Will is right in my opinion that unfortunately there are,and always will be, some evil people about who don't care what they inflict on others.If we knew the answer I am sure we would be using the solution by now. There is an element of personal decision making for us all such as ,for example, if you know you can lose your temper when you are drunk giving up alcohol if you can't control it.Walking away from heated situations too . However sometimes there is little you can do to preventing people who are just plain evil doing something whatever attempts are made to mitigate the risks.We just have to hope that it doesn't happen to our loved ones. However I expect life to mean life for people who are capable of such evil crimes.
 
Ingy said:
Will is right in my opinion that unfortunately there are,and always will be, some evil people about who don't care what they inflict on others.If we knew the answer I am sure we would be using the solution by now. There is an element of personal decision making for us all such as ,for example, if you know you can lose your temper when you are drunk giving up alcohol if you can't control it.Walking away from heated situations too . However sometimes there is little you can do to preventing people who are just plain evil doing something whatever attempts are made to mitigate the risks.We just have to hope that it doesn't happen to our loved ones. However I expect life to mean life for people who are capable of such evil crimes.
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But what has this got to do with fisHcakes chap?
 
Will.NFFC said:
Good argument.

I just despise the fact that some of these people get the light of day that their victims don’t. There isn’t a ‘fair’ conclusion I suppose, but I just can’t help but feel that our justice system doesn’t suffice.
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It is far from perfect, but I would rather have what we have than what the Americans have.
 
Will.NFFC said:
I’m sure if you speak to the victims of the families who’ve had their loved ones viciously taken away, they wouldn’t see ‘justice’ in sending the evil strain on society to a prison.

Id also bet my house you’d have have less overall murders as a result of it.
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You would lose that house. US is the best example, harsh punishments and one of the highest murder rates of any western society.
 
Ingy said:
Will is right in my opinion that unfortunately there are,and always will be, some evil people about who don't care what they inflict on others.If we knew the answer I am sure we would be using the solution by now. There is an element of personal decision making for us all such as ,for example, if you know you can lose your temper when you are drunk giving up alcohol if you can't control it.Walking away from heated situations too . However sometimes there is little you can do to preventing people who are just plain evil doing something whatever attempts are made to mitigate the risks.We just have to hope that it doesn't happen to our loved ones. However I expect life to mean life for people who are capable of such evil crimes.
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The million dollar question tho; are you prepared to pay for that in higher taxes, cost 45k per year to have a prisoner. For murderers (bear in mind violent crime is less than 10% of the overall prision population) it feels like a bargin but for the rest, for 45k you could given them a fooking job and pay someone 25k to make sure they did it.

Lets be clear prision doesnt work (apart from violent offenders, which includes sex offenders).
 
If you want to save huge amounts on crime (and on the NHS) you need to wean the British public off their spectacularly unhealthy relationship with alcohol.

If alcohol went the way of smoking both the health service and the police would have a fraction of the amount to do, especially at weekends
 
Pope John XXIII said:
If you want to save huge amounts on crime (and on the NHS) you need to wean the British public off their spectacularly unhealthy relationship with alcohol.

If alcohol went the way of smoking both the health service and the police would have a fraction of the amount to do, especially at weekends
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I remember hearing that young people drink much less than when i was their age 17-20 years ago. That's a good sign imo
 
Pope John XXIII said:
If you want to save huge amounts on crime (and on the NHS) you need to wean the British public off their spectacularly unhealthy relationship with alcohol.

If alcohol went the way of smoking both the health service and the police would have a fraction of the amount to do, especially at weekends
Click to expand...

That is a very good point.

I can remember when I was living in Ireland, probably around 15 years ago, and the debate about Alcohol came up; one of the Talk Radio Stations joined in the debate and carried out various studies into how Alcohol impacted on peoples lives.

One of the studies was how Alcohol impacted on the Health Service, specifically with Accident and Emergency; part of the study involved attempting to monitor how many people visited A & E late at Night at week ends, trying to draw a comparison between Alcohol consumption and the reasons behind peoples visits.

The results were startling; the percentage of out patients either under the influence or as a direct result of someone else being under the influence was huge.

There are two days in Ireland when Pubs cannot open due to the licencing laws; Good Friday and Christmas Day - the A & E departments at the Hospitals being monitored were empty of patients on both days.
 
radfordinlondon said:
The million dollar question tho; are you prepared to pay for that in higher taxes, cost 45k per year to have a prisoner. For murderers (bear in mind violent crime is less than 10% of the overall prision population) it feels like a bargin but for the rest, for 45k you could given them a fooking job and pay someone 25k to make sure they did it.

Lets be clear prision doesnt work (apart from violent offenders, which includes sex offenders).
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Prison doesn’t work in terms of reformation because there is little to no effort put into helping people reform.

Some people will decide that one term in prison is enough and either get cleverer or decide not to commit crimes.

Others just need a helping hand to choose a better path which is where far more work is needed.

There will always be those whose crimes are so bad and/or they show no signs of remorse or even that they are likely to re-offend and these are the people that I believe should be kept in prison for the safety of other people.

One thing I do like and think we could use is the ‘three strikes’ policy. If serial offenders realise that if they are caught three times then they will spend the rest of their lives in prison then they may make different choices. Obviously it would need refining but it’s certainly worth thinking about...
 
mao tse tung said:
That is a very good point.

I can remember when I was living in Ireland, probably around 15 years ago, and the debate about Alcohol came up; one of the Talk Radio Stations joined in the debate and carried out various studies into how Alcohol impacted on peoples lives.

One of the studies was how Alcohol impacted on the Health Service, specifically with Accident and Emergency; part of the study involved attempting to monitor how many people visited A & E late at Night at week ends, trying to draw a comparison between Alcohol consumption and the reasons behind peoples visits.

The results were startling; the percentage of out patients either under the influence or as a direct result of someone else being under the influence was huge.

There are two days in Ireland when Pubs cannot open due to the licencing laws; Good Friday and Christmas Day - the A & E departments at the Hospitals being monitored were empty of patients on both days.
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While I agree in principle, for me that wouldn’t work.

I drank heavily for about 20 years and I was only hospitalised once for a broken ankle and there were other elements in play. Nobody has ever been hospitalised as a result of my actions despite a few attempts.

Comparatively I have been hospitalised as a result of sporting injuries nearly a dozen times and have hospitalised at least three people that I know of in that same time.

Not sure whether that makes me the outlier or the people who get drunk and end up in hospital...
 
Basha73 said:
While I agree in principle, for me that wouldn’t work.

I drank heavily for about 20 years and I was only hospitalised once for a broken ankle and there were other elements in play. Nobody has ever been hospitalised as a result of my actions despite a few attempts.

Comparatively I have been hospitalised as a result of sporting injuries nearly a dozen times and have hospitalised at least three people that I know of in that same time.

Not sure whether that makes me the outlier or the people who get drunk and end up in hospital...
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Ban sport.
 
in_the_top_one said:
Ban sport.
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Or ban me from sport...!

Sport does cause more injuries than alcohol but is meant to be ‘healthy’ and I am sure that there are plenty of other examples.

Something obviously does need to be done about the country’s alcohol problem but we also need to look at other issues too.
 
Feco said:
1994.....I had just left the mining industry on a full time basis. It seems a lifetime away, I actually get claustrophobic thinking about it now.

The SSAB process is interesting, but essentially is still a DRI process and it’s still not scaled up. Admittedly it removes the need for blast furnaces in making the final product, which is good, but there is still along way to go until it is able to produce the volumes that BF’s do. And that’s a problem.

I agree that recycling needs to improve, for everything really, but particularly metals.
Net Zero is not enough, we need to be negative emissions (and not just CO2).
Carbon Capture, Allam Cycle, reversing de-forestation and habitat loss can all help.

One small coal mine in Cumbria that helps produce the raw materials that build the carbon removal tools we will need is not a huge problem.
We need this materials now, and the manufacturing methods on the scale that is needed are currently limited.
The coal will still be produced somewhere, and the carbon footprint to deliver to our steel works will be considerably higher.
It’s definitely not ideal, but short term not disastrous.

What really frustrates me is there is so much technology out there that could start making a real difference, but the powers that be seem to think that planting wind turbines and covering the land with solar panels is the answer.
This winter has again proved that is not the case.
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Do we need the materials now, or do we need the pressure of shortages to force us to stop relying on fossil fuels? I'm content for there to be power outages and shortages if it forces a mindset change.

Symbolism is important, and opening a mine is hugely retrograde. You make a valid point about the carbon footprint of importing but do you have a link to an actual lifecycle analysis of the footprint of building a new mine? That's hardly carbon neutral...

I agree there are so many options, why isn't there anaerobic digestion at every landfill site?
 
Pope John XXIII said:
If you want to save huge amounts on crime (and on the NHS) you need to wean the British public off their spectacularly unhealthy relationship with alcohol.

If alcohol went the way of smoking both the health service and the police would have a fraction of the amount to do, especially at weekends
Click to expand...

I think it is no excuse and some people like a drink and a smoke. Perhaps banning people who have been found to be anti social is fairer?
 
Basha73 said:
Prison doesn’t work in terms of reformation because there is little to no effort put into helping people reform.

Some people will decide that one term in prison is enough and either get cleverer or decide not to commit crimes.

Others just need a helping hand to choose a better path which is where far more work is needed.

There will always be those whose crimes are so bad and/or they show no signs of remorse or even that they are likely to re-offend and these are the people that I believe should be kept in prison for the safety of other people.

One thing I do like and think we could use is the ‘three strikes’ policy. If serial offenders realise that if they are caught three times then they will spend the rest of their lives in prison then they may make different choices. Obviously it would need refining but it’s certainly worth thinking about...
Click to expand...

Apart from the last bit i agree.
 
radfordinlondon said:
I think it is no excuse and some people like a drink and a smoke. Perhaps banning people who have been found to be anti social is fairer?
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I don't think banning anything is desirable.

We have successfully reduced smoking by making people no longer want to smoke.

If we made a decision as a society that it was best to move on from alcohol, then the only way to do it would be that way
 
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