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hulloutpost said:
They're not genuine asylum seekers because they are entering the country illegally, also having already passed through other safe havens.

I didn't mention the term economic migrants, you did. As you mention it though, the reality is that amongst the people illegally entering the country some will be fleeing war zones and political oppression, some will be criminals, some terrorists and some economic migrants. That's why it is important that we have a robust and transparent system, so we can sort out genuine from nefarious cases.

You can argue we don't have that or at least not in a format that you would personally like it to be; but illegal human trafficking certainly is not the answer and is more barbaric than anything our government has either in place or failed to put in place.

Out of interest, do you support a system that encourages human trafficking, exploitation, abuse and in extreme cases manslaughter of it's 'clients' whilst providing millions of pounds for organised criminals, as it appears to me that you do?

Don't you want to see systems put in place that shut human trafficking down whilst simultaneously lobbying for a system that more suits your views on immigration? Or is it the case that if your expectations on legal immigration and asylum aren't being met you are happy for the human exploitation criminals to continue their work regardless?
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The “left” seem to like them illegally entering from other safe countries.. I’ve yet to meet any who have volunteered their home to them yet.
 
EastvilleIMP said:
The “left” seem to like them illegally entering from other safe countries.. I’ve yet to meet any who have volunteered their home to them yet.
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Didn't Lineker allow one migrant to stay in his house for a week as an act of, what's the word I'm looking for, virtue signalling, tokenism, publicity, point scoring.

No silly me, he was doing his bit to make a lasting and significant impact on the long term and unresolved problem of a fair, balanced and effective asylum process.
 
hulloutpost said:
Didn't Lineker allow one migrant to stay in his house for a week as an act of, what's the word I'm looking for, virtue signalling, tokenism, publicity, point scoring.

No silly me, he was doing his bit to make a lasting and significant impact on the long term and unresolved problem of a fair, balanced and effective asylum process.
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Nigel wouldn't do anything of the sort however... oh...
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/p...led-for-latest-migrant-invasion-stunt-197145/
 
Sincilbanks said:
Nigel wouldn't do anything of the sort however... oh...
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/p...led-for-latest-migrant-invasion-stunt-197145/
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It would appear he is highlighting criminal activity and questioning the lack of measures to stop said illegal activity. I don't see that as a stunt personally. I see it as raising the profile of a real issue.

What next - do we stop people highlighting illegal fox hunting; or how about those that expose discrimination in the workplace. Or how about whistle blowers, environmentalists, Greta Thunberg for example?

Are those people that are passionately motivated by a subject staging stunts as well, or is it alright if it's an issue that an individual happens to agree with but not if they don't?
 
hulloutpost said:
It would appear he is highlighting criminal activity and questioning the lack of measures to stop said illegal activity. I don't see that as a stunt personally. I see it as raising the profile of a real issue.

What next - do we stop people highlighting illegal fox hunting; or how about those that expose discrimination in the workplace. Or how about whistle blowers, environmentalists, Greta Thunberg for example?

Are those people that are passionately motivated by a subject staging stunts as well, or is it alright if it's an issue that an individual happens to agree with but not if they don't?
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Dunno mate, I think people highlighting those things people find important is absolutely fine regardless of who they are.

Of course one persons "stunt" is another persons "keenly interested in an issue that needs raising" (as it would appear you've just demonstrated) but you're the one apparently whinging on about "stunts" while dropping all the relevant keywords that matter to you in some way apparently...

It's one of those irregular verbs isn't it?
"I demonstrate flaws in the system and generate publicity for it"
"You raise irrelevant publicity for something that isn't in my sphere of interest"
"They are a bunch of lefty, snowflake, woke activists using their twitter reach for an unacceptable publicity stunt"
 
Sincilbanks said:
Dunno mate, I think people highlighting those things people find important is absolutely fine regardless of who they are.

Of course one persons "stunt" is another persons "keenly interested in an issue that needs raising" (as it would appear you've just demonstrated) but you're the one apparently whinging on about "stunts" while dropping all the relevant keywords that matter to you in some way apparently...

It's one of those irregular verbs isn't it?
"I demonstrate flaws in the system and generate publicity for it"
"You raise irrelevant publicity for something that isn't in my sphere of interest"
"They are a bunch of lefty, snowflake, woke activists using their twitter reach for an unacceptable publicity stunt"
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We can agree that people can speak on subjects openly then; that's good. We just disagree on what is a stunt and what is a more genuine attempt to meaningfully further an issue.

I think Lineker was a stunt, Farage not so. I never said Lineker couldn't conduct his stunt I just chose to ridicule him for it. You think Farage was a stunt and would ridicule him for that. So be it :shrug:
 
Nigel Farage wants RNLI funding to stop if they don't stop plucking migrants out the sea.
We've lost a good staff who we're struggling to replace thanks to him making out migrants are bad, lovely fella.
Interestingly when he had a dig at RNLI donations jumped up dramatically.
Waiting for him to pick a fight with Marcus Rashford, only one winner and it won't be man of the people our Nige.
 
Davidimp said:
Nigel Farage wants RNLI funding to stop if they don't stop plucking migrants out the sea.
We've lost a good staff who we're struggling to replace thanks to him making out migrants are bad, lovely fella.
Interestingly when he had a dig at RNLI donations jumped up dramatically.
Waiting for him to pick a fight with Marcus Rashford, only one winner and it won't be man of the people our Nige.
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I'm aware that he called the RNLI effectively a taxi service for the illegal immigrants and questioned whether that is really their role. The RNLI quite properly (imo) responded that their primary role is simply to save lives at sea.

I can't see where he called for them to be defunded. Perhaps you could kindly link me to that. If he did, he was wrong to do so, imo.

Regarding your staff member I think you are conflating arguments David. If you check, I believe it's the case that Farage is in favour of points based migration and where necessary, shortages in labour are filled via work visas. Implemented properly such a system can go a long way to mitigating those shortfalls.

Farage has had no hand in implementing government policy at any level though, and I would be interested to know how he is PERSONALLY responsible for the loss of your staff member and what skill level/role they fulfilled, when as I say he is in favour of points based migration. It's conceivable that if his policies were implemented effectively by the government the position would be filled.

The illegal immigrants coming ashore via the dinghys are very rarely going to be able to fill the skill gaps (and why should they if people are applying via the correct channels - impedes economic migrants?), that is an entirely separate issue and Farage himself has made that distinction.
 
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No good at links I'm afraid
We've got staff scared they'll be asked to leave, got a Ukrainian nurse, been here 20 years, Filipinos even longer, one had visa problems and nearly had to, like I say not seen the Polish girl in ages, married to an English lad.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on Nige.
Can't take a man seriously who claims to hate career politicians and then celebrates 20 years in politics...
Worst of all he's pals with Trump.
 
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Davidimp said:
No good at links I'm afraid
We've got staff scared they'll be asked to leave, got a Ukrainian nurse, been here 20 years, Filipinos even longer, one had visa problems and nearly had to, like I say not seen the Polish girl in ages, married to an English lad.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on Nige.
Can't take a man seriously who claims to hate career politicians and then celebrates 20 years in politics...
Worst of all he's pals with Trump.
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Can't find anything myself other than the taxi boat reference, but then again there are a fair number of people that have misquoted him or twisted his words in the past for whatever reason. It doesn't take much for that to have the desired effect to take off and suddenly it's gospel amongst the wider public.

Good job for him, that he has the skin of a rhino and doesn't give two hoots about the gaslighting.

Fair enough on Farage though, as I've said previously he does divide opinion and I understand why he is unpopular with a lot of people - he doesn't exactly sit on the fence.
 
HoofGrantBrown said:
Why would anyone want to stop these people from coming here?
They should all be made as welcome as possible.
It's called decent humanity.
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Noble aspirations Hoof and I wouldn't criticise anybody for that.

I'm more of a pragmatist and the reality is that we don't have and are unlikely to ever have a completely fair and equal world (I'm not going to start discussing the merits or otherwise of political systems) so there have to be systems in place.

I agree that once people arrive it is absolutely correct that people are treated properly and fairly; that's not the issue for me. We should be dealing with the issue of who and how people are getting here first and foremost.

Like it or not we live in bubbles that are our countries and I don't see it as unreasonable to know who is entering our bubble and the effect it will have on our security and demand for services. Going on from that I see it as reasonable and desirable to try and not upset that 'ecosystem'.

I don't see life as black and white, we can all have an ideal or pure aspirations but it's necessary to compromise in an imperfect world. Take for example the death penalty. In theory I have no problem with it being deserved for some offences and circumstances but I would NEVER advocate or support it being used in practice because the justice system is not perfect and there are mistakes.
 
HoofGrantBrown said:
Why would anyone want to stop these people from coming here?
They should all be made as welcome as possible.
It's called decent humanity.
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So you see no harm in a unlimited amount of people entering the country illegally.

More virtual signalling. I would not wish harm on anyone seeking genuine safety.

But a line has to be drawn somewhere, with people passing through other “safe” countries to enter here illegally.

If unlimited amounts came here illegally it adds to more pressure on the NHS/Police etc, thus then the potential harm to some one who is legally in this country.

We live in the real world.
 
EastvilleIMP said:
So you see no harm in a unlimited amount of people entering the country illegally.

More virtual signalling. I would not wish harm on anyone seeking genuine safety.

But a line has to be drawn somewhere, with people passing through other “safe” countries to enter here illegally.

If unlimited amounts came here illegally it adds to more pressure on the NHS/Police etc, thus then the potential harm to some one who is legally in this country.

We live in the real world.
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And the real world is that unlimited amounts do not come here, relatively tiny numbers in fact.
Plus "brits" just spent the two to three centuries marching into countries all over the world, occupying them, claiming rule over them, and exploiting all the physical and human resources.
We should not therefore complain when a few people choose to come here for a better life when it is our exploitation of them that made us a richer country.
 
EastvilleIMP said:
So you see no harm in a unlimited amount of people entering the country illegally.

More virtual signalling. I would not wish harm on anyone seeking genuine safety.

But a line has to be drawn somewhere, with people passing through other “safe” countries to enter here illegally.

If unlimited amounts came here illegally it adds to more pressure on the NHS/Police etc, thus then the potential harm to some one who is legally in this country.

We live in the real world.
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Is it virtue signalling to accuse someone of virtue signalling? Don’t try and answer that. What might make you even more confused is that a recent study (a woke/liberal/PC/snowflake/BBC/MSM conspiracy one, obvs) found that illegal immigrants are the natural predators of paedophiles and benefit fraudsters. What a dilemma. Philosophers are calling it the Daily Mail Paradox.
 
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MaineRoad_96 said:
Is it virtue signalling to accuse someone of virtue signalling? Don’t try and answer that. What might make you even more confused is that a recent study (a woke/liberal/PC/snowflake/BBC/MSM conspiracy one, obvs) found that illegal immigrants are the natural predators of paedophiles and benefit fraudsters. What a dilemma. Philosophers are calling it the Daily Mail Paradox.
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I can't speak for Eastville, but you've lost me MaineRoad. Am I to take it from what you said, that illegal immigrants are cannibalising paedophiles and benefit fraudsters? I doubt that's what you meant; a little context or clarification per chance?

It would make sense to say they are victims of paedophiles and benefit fraudsters - I don't doubt that illegal immigrants are horrendously abused by organised human trafficking gangs and opportunist criminals. Is that what you meant? It's another part of the problem and reasons why the whole charade needs shutting down and a properly authenticated asylum/migrant system enforced.
 
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