Europe In Out Shake it all about | Page 5 | Vital Football

Europe In Out Shake it all about

Agree maundy

I also am far from convinced by those who say France won't spite us as the project fear suggests... we've never exactly been bussom buddies have we?!
 
No Maundy, greed will out. The opposite is true, if we leave all parties will bend over backwards to maintain the status Quo. Do not be fearful, there is too much money at stake to let a little thing like pride get in the way. Believe in this wonderful country we will be absolutely fine and self governed, it is a wonderful opportunity let's not waste it.
 
In your heart of hearts Wurzel, what do you think WILL happen (not what you obviously want to happen)?

At the moment I think a lot of people are confused and quite a few actually don't seem to care. Think a lot are just so untrusting of anything they are told by politicians and we seem to have the bullshit on both sides.

Andrew Neil last night on This Week ripped apart arguments from both sides because they were getting their 'facts' wrong.

I struggle. If Gove, Farage and Boris tell me to do something, I want to do the opposite. Boris was torn and unsure and conflicted two minutes ago, now he's ponicing around talking with such conviction and surety. You can see it is political posturing for his own ambitions.

Our country should be more important than his selfish aims.

But then you have the man attacking the disabled and vulnerable and supporting West Villa on the other side, he was also saying he ruled nothing out if he didn't get what he wanted. He didn't get what he wanted and now he is also is sure.

Either way we are run by idiots and bureaucrats I think!
 
London and the Home Counties will vote to stay put and the north and rural areas will vote to leave.
 
Be fascinating to see what % turnout they get to vote, let alone how they vote.
 
I'm pretty sure in my area it'll be a restounding "Out." Immigration has changed towns beyond recondition. Boston, which is the other main town in my parliamentary constituency, is now the murder capital of the U.K. It's down to the Eastern Europeans they're forever killing each other.
 
The Fear - 4/3/2016 21:52

In your heart of hearts Wurzel, what do you think WILL happen (not what you obviously want to happen)?

At the moment I think a lot of people are confused and quite a few actually don't seem to care. Think a lot are just so untrusting of anything they are told by politicians and we seem to have the bullshit on both sides.

Andrew Neil last night on This Week ripped apart arguments from both sides because they were getting their 'facts' wrong.

I struggle. If Gove, Farage and Boris tell me to do something, I want to do the opposite. Boris was torn and unsure and conflicted two minutes ago, now he's ponicing around talking with such conviction and surety. You can see it is political posturing for his own ambitions.

Our country should be more important than his selfish aims.

But then you have the man attacking the disabled and vulnerable and supporting West Villa on the other side, he was also saying he ruled nothing out if he didn't get what he wanted. He didn't get what he wanted and now he is also is sure.

Either way we are run by idiots and bureaucrats I think!
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You know what will happen if we have the ball to vote out? The EU will come back with a much improved offer and ask us the question again. And they will keep on until we give the right answer. Vote out let's have some fun. What does it matter anyway?
 
cmon now Wurz - think of the panic if you choose to defy Dave and Gideon (and the scruffy fellow)
the French will unleash countless economic migrants armed with stinky cheese etc
ooooh it's scary

In will win of course because people are scared shitless of change and being responsible for their own decisions

Still at least we have the football.........Oh

sacre bleu

 
What confuses me are the "In" group saying that they are in favour of staying in a reformed E.U.
What reforms are they in favour of?
What do they think needs to be reformed?
How are they going to go about getting the reforms they think are needed?
 
I suspect you are right Wurzel.

I also think that David Cameron sold himself/this country WAY too cheaply and actually, IF he had done it right, he could have got support by taking other countries along for the ride of massively reforming this sprawling bureaucracy.

In summary, Cameron is a pillock !

IF I thought we could get the common market and not the political integration, I'd be absolutely delighted. I don't think, or at least I'm very unsure that we can.
 
And another thing. It seems that the rest of Europe, such as the French and the German big industrial complexes, which haven't exactly got a blemish free record where human rights are concerned, are using threats to frighten us into staying in the the partnership. Now, if a partner in a relationship is threatened as to the consequences of daring to leave, if strong arm tactics are used against them, wouldn't this constitute an abusive relationship? I don't like being threatened.
 
The Fear - 5/3/2016 00:47

I suspect you are right Wurzel.

I also think that David Cameron sold himself/this country WAY too cheaply and actually, IF he had done it right, he could have got support by taking other countries along for the ride of massively reforming this sprawling bureaucracy.

In summary, Cameron is a pillock !

IF I thought we could get the common market and not the political integration, I'd be absolutely delighted. I don't think, or at least I'm very unsure that we can.
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The Common Market was always going to develope politically, it had to. For free trade there has to be fair trade, which leades to a need for regulation of working conditions and practices, which leads to cross border agencies to regulate, which leads to quangos and other political groups being set up to analyze and regulate the performance of these agencies, which leads people to call for a democratic voice to oversee the governmental groups,which leads to a European parliament, which leads to..............and so on.

If we are in we are in all the way ( maybe not with the Euro though) but if we pull out all we should have are trade agreements and some regulation around immi-/emmigration with specific thought for those that have already established themselves in another country.

 
I understand your argument VOTN but not sure I fully buy it. Remember, I did my dissertation at uni on part of this, the technical barriers to trade, blimey that was a joyous time!

A very decent common market could have been set up, now some could have asked / wanted / taken up further integration, a European court however, to take sovereignty from countries wasn't needed in the way they have set it up. There was potential for many multi lateral agreements (like the European arrest warrants) without having to tie the hands of all quite so much which has led to this resentment.

Also the bureaucracy and the wasted money in the European Parliaments weren't totally needed, with it being a new system they could have designed something not to fleece us. Instead they've just added more layers of waste as if each country doesn't already have their own (ie our wasteful MP's and their expenses, the House of Lords scams etc)

As said, I am not sure I'm over bothered purely because I have no respect for our own establishment.

The more both sides argue and lie, the less I feel I care if I'm honest, I think they are all shysters.
 
Not a massive no of people live here however more for the no campaign. Anyone else remember Gibraltar in this and they have the vote also in June for in/out. By the looks that another 30 k votes for the in vote, as they dont want to come out. Thought it would be interesting to bring into the equation. Article on follows:

........................................................................................................................

What does Gibraltar think about Brexit?

The UK will vote in June on whether it wants to leave the EU or remain. The residents of Gibraltar - the British overseas territory on the tip of Spain - will also have the right to cast a vote.
High up on the slope of the Rock of Gibraltar on the terrace of their home, lawyer and native Gibraltarian Damon Bossino can see how close Spain is - only five miles across the bay.
His Spanish wife Rosa is from La Linea, just across the Spanish border and they met 20 years ago when she came to work in the same law firm in Gibraltar.

Cont: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35743731

 
You Gov pollsters saying there is a move towards the stay vote. They are expecting that to increase as we move towards the date of the vote.

A big hope for the out campaign is that apathy rules and there isn't a big turnout vote wise as they feel, and I would imagine they might well be right on this, that the out people will be more energised/compelled to go and vote.
 
The Fear - 9/3/2016 09:57

You Gov pollsters saying there is a move towards the stay vote. They are expecting that to increase as we move towards the date of the vote.

A big hope for the out campaign is that apathy rules and there isn't a big turnout vote wise as they feel, and I would imagine they might well be right on this, that the out people will be more energised/compelled to go and vote.
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Stupidity will rule too JF. Too many people will think of this in a way of a general election. Well I am not voting for him they see it as. I have already heard that said. I am like WTF.

Even Mr KK who has never voted in his life (of which he knows my opinion on) is voting at this on in/out and nor did I have to twist his arm on voting either.

Quite honestly it should be mandatory that everyone who is eligible to vote, votes IMO
 
There is a long way to go and the migrant crisis will get worse as the months go by. Add to that project fear becoming counter productive for the in vote and the pollsters not taking into account the silent majority and I think we could have a clear out vote. I do hope so because then we will see real change. A vote for staying in is a vote for the status quo and that is a very unappealing prospect.
 
In some ways would love it to be mandatory but then, that isn't democracy then!

I think people are confused, angry and tied up in knots Wurzel. That makes it even more interesting as you might well get just that,some angry votes.
 
Sorry to piss on anyone's parade, but there is absolutely zero chance of Britain leaving the EU
 
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