EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’...

[GillsBluenose]

I think I might see what’s driving you. Are you trying to justify Jeremy Corbyn’s position ? If you are it’s just as barmy as Theresa May’s. The brexiteers specifically don’t want to be bound by the regulations within the single market. The “thousands of laws” that they love to moan about are mostly those about standards and specifications for goods in the market. If you don’t specifically bind yourselves to those rules, frictionless trade becomes an unobtainable myth. If you want to be free of them that’s fine but don’t complain when there are checks st the border. Hence the continued problem at the Irish border. Either you follow the rules or you don’t. ‘Close alignment’ means nothing.

I agree. Once we are out, totally frictionless trading will he history.

There is likely to be checks at borders in both directions although that could be in the form of selective checking or spot checks. Technology could also come in to it.

As you indicate, both the EU and the UK will have some rules and standards that will be different under their respective laws. If we wish to export to the EU we will have to continue to abide by any of their laws, rules and standards that are different from ours. That should not be difficult for our exporters as that is what they are adhering to already.

In turn, any rules that we transfer to our statute book from the EU and then change to suit us (which could be more stringent than EU rules) will need to be observed by EU exporters sending goods to this country.

 

[GillsBluenose]

The problem will be exacerbated by more and more countries signing up to trade agreements with the EU - a much bigger market prospect than the UK - and more and more countries will begin to adopt those standards and specifications.

The term agreement does not necessarily mean "100% what the EU demands".

Or are you beginning to recognise a dictatorship when you see one?

 

[Therealwaldo]

I agree. Once we are out, totally frictionless trading will he history.

There is likely to be checks at borders in both directions although that could be in the form of selective checking or spot checks. Technology could also come in to it.

As you indicate, both the EU and the UK will have some rules and standards that will be different under their respective laws. If we wish to export to the EU we will have to continue to abide by any of their laws, rules and standards that are different from ours. That should not be difficult for our exporters as that is what they are adhering to already.

In turn, any rules that we transfer to our statute book from the EU and then change to suit us (which could be more stringent than EU rules) will need to be observed by EU exporters sending goods to this country.

It just makes things far more difficult than it is currently for those who export to our biggest export market. Why try to justify making life more difficult especially when it was sold on making life easier ? “Bonfire of regulations”, remember that ?

 

[GillsBluenose]

Well that's easy then. No brainer. Why hasn't it happened? Are the EU deliberately trying to destroy themselves/collectively being incredibly stupid compared to our geniuses?

Neither side are geniuses but I would suggest that you research the EU's record for brinkmanship and how often they come to a sensible compromise at the last minute to avoid self harm.

Have you not noticed that the two times we have come within days of crashing out of the EU, their council has called an emergency meeting for two days in advance? 10th April was the last one.

 

[GillsBluenose]

It just makes things far more difficult than it is currently for those who export to our biggest export market. Why try to justify making life more difficult especially when it was sold on making life easier ? “Bonfire of regulations”, remember that ?

Was it sold on making life easier for everyone?

Did the government actually make a statement referring to a bonfire of regulations or are you talking about one isolated historic soundbite?

Of course there needs to be regulations but we should have a proper say in how they affect us and the number can certainly be reduced if bureaucracy was slimmed down.

As I stated it will not make anything more difficult for our exporters as they have to meet EU standards already. Only border checks and tariffs will cause them any additional problems and those can be mitigated if May's deal passes in the short term or we strike a trade deal with the EU in the long term.

 

[Wayne.Kerr]

The term agreement does not necessarily mean "100% what the EU demands".

But the EU has the financial clout to make it attractive. It managed to conclude a deal with Japan and, if you add in South Korea, that's a pretty large chunk of significant manufacturing nations already in bed with the EU. The EU is both China and India's largest trading partner.

Not sure how good your reading is but I never wrote the phrase '.... what the EU demands'.

 

[GillsBluenose]

Not sure how good your reading is but I never wrote the phrase '.... what the EU demands'.

No you didn't but your inference is that the other party always have to dance to the EU's tune due to their overall size.

Is that really your impression of Japan? Don't you think that they would have dictated to the EU some of their own conditions that may be quite onerous in the years to come?

I would think that Japan's own trade laws would have some differences to those of the EU so it is likely that some compromises have had to be made on both sides.

I suspect that deal may have a few equivalents to the chlorinated chicken proposition.

 

[Wayne.Kerr]

No you didn't but your inference is that the other party always have to dance to the EU's tune due to their overall size.

No, that was your interpretation of what I wrote.

Is that really your impression of Japan? Don't you think that they would have dictated to the EU some of their own conditions that may be quite onerous in the years to come?

Once again, you show your complete ignorance of world affairs. Of course Japan was anxious to conclude a deal with the EU. Japan HAS to export to survive.
Japan has long been characterized as a nation with virtually no natural resources like oil, natural gas, coal, iron and copper.

I would think that Japan's own trade laws would have some differences to those of the EU so it is likely that some compromises have had to be made on both sides.

Quite possibly but Japan has a population of over 125m to consider and exporting is the key to getting the natural resources it craves in order to satisfy the needs of its home market but depending mainly on engineering and engineering products to export, Japan is limited as to what it can dictate. For example, historic Japanese trade barriers have been removed under the deal with the EU.

I suspect that deal may have a few equivalents to the chlorinated chicken proposition.

I did post a copy of the trade deal, which you could have read or at least the summary rather than make baseless statements like that.

 

[Therealwaldo]

Was it sold on making life easier for everyone?

Did the government actually make a statement referring to a bonfire of regulations or are you talking about one isolated historic soundbite?

Of course there needs to be regulations but we should have a proper say in how they affect us and the number can certainly be reduced if bureaucracy was slimmed down.

As I stated it will not make anything more difficult for our exporters as they have to meet EU standards already. Only border checks and tariffs will cause them any additional problems and those can be mitigated if May's deal passes in the short term or we strike a trade deal with the EU in the long term.

Of course it makes it more difficult for exporters. If you bothered to keep up with what exporters are saying you would know that currently there is no paperwork involved in exporting to the EU. Exporting anywhere else requires a ton of paperwork. Out of the single market, which even ‘close alignment’ actually means, the ton of paperwork would also be required when exporting to EU countries. If you actually listened to the worries of exporters you might actually be aware of some of this.

The ‘bonfire of regulations’ was referred to by some of the key brexiteers when making their arguments. The problem is that there is no clear leave position on anything. Brexiteers keep talking about what people voted for when in fact they have no idea at all. How can they when various leading leave organisations put forward a whole load of different possibilities from Farage with his, “we could be like Switzerland or Norway” to Daniel Hannan “absolutely no one is threatening our place in the single market”.

 

[Wayne.Kerr]

Exporting anywhere else requires a ton of paperwork.

Yes, most of the paperwork is electronic but the forms don't complete themselves. By way of example, this is what is required when shipping goods to Argentina - not all is UK paperwork obviously but detailed shipping info is a must

https://www.export.gov/article?id=Argentina-import-requirements-and-documentation

Whereas, for [say] trucking stuff to/from Europe I doubt much more than a packing/loading list is required plus a bit more on dutiable items plus insurance papers.

 

[Archiepoptart]

The term agreement does not necessarily mean "100% what the EU demands".

Or are you beginning to recognise a dictatorship when you see one?

What a load of cod's . For the past 40 odd years the UK was integral in formulating EU terms and conditions. Dicatorship my arse
Are you Boris in disguise?

 

[Trashbat]

> £50m to cancel cost of contracts for ferry services. A great big poker bluff; the EU called it and won. No doubt we’ll piss more cash up the wall.

 

[Wayne.Kerr]

Virtually everything Grayling touches turns to shit starting with the railways.

 

[GillsBluenose]

> £50m to cancel cost of contracts for ferry services. A great big poker bluff; the EU called it and won. No doubt we’ll piss more cash up the wall.

Big win! Our net contributions to the EU of £280m per week are effectively being pissed up a wall until we leave anyway.

I have no time for Grayling but the ferry services loss represents not much more than the equivalent of a day's net contribution.

 

[Wayne.Kerr]

Big win! Our net contributions to the EU of £280m per week are effectively being pissed up a wall until we leave anyway.

I have no time for Grayling but the ferry services loss represents not much more than the equivalent of a day's net contribution.

So it’s ok then?

 

[Trashbat]

Big win! Our net contributions to the EU of £280m per week are effectively being pissed up a wall until we leave anyway.

I have no time for Grayling but the ferry services loss represents not much more than the equivalent of a day's net contribution.

This argument has done the rounds. Expert opinion based on analysis is that we gain much more financially from the single market than the cost of being a member.

 

[Wayne.Kerr]

This argument has done the rounds. Expert opinion based on analysis is that we gain much more financially from the single market than the cost of being a member.

But that doesn’t wash with those who think we’ve lost control. We get back control with a Leave vote but the Leavers can’t make up their minds what they want. When they look at the contribution, as you point out, they never look at the other side. GBN is a prime example of one of those and also thinks we can do better without the clout and and mass of the EU fighting our corner like they did in the steel crisis.

We now have a situation where some are interpreting the Leave vote as no-deal Brexit but (a) that was never on the ballot paper and (b) some Leavers didn’t want a no-deal exit. Had the ERG voted for May’s deal, we would have left the EU by now. Hers was after all only a transitional agreement not the final deal but hard-line Brexiteers not Remainers destroyed it.

 

[RotherhitheGill]

Brexit, a subject at home where we can control our own destiny (taking in to consideration all outside influences )for our own benefits and what a ******** mess. Bring back control, kiss my arse, there's a whole world out there and we are not a little (self contained) island.

 

[Gills 58]

GBN I make a net contribution to my cricket club but it's well worth it for all the benefits it brings. Am I stupid?

Shall I leave and play on my own? (note I didn't say play with myself!) I don't think other teams will be that interested.

 

[Gills 58]

Brexit, a subject at home where we can control our own destiny (taking in to consideration all outside influences )for our own benefits and what a ******** mess. Bring back control, kiss my arse, there's a whole world out there and we are not a little (self contained) island.

But you'll be able to buy a nice planet melting vacuum cleaner, so stop moaning. :-)