England v Belgium

[weejockmcplop]

All very reasonable. My point isn't that I'm blaming the squad, but there is a lot of space between that and saying we should be winning competitions. We've got a squad that is more than capable of competing, but it isn't a shoe-in for a trophy.

Semi-final, Final, Quarter-final (where we were unlucky to go out against France who themselves were unlucky to lose in the final on penalties). I'd say our results aren't a massive underperformance based on our squad, which is what a lot of people are saying, despite having several weak links.
Apparently we have the fourth best recent record against the top ten. Just behind Belgium, a bit behind Spain, and quite a long way behind France.


[Also, Mangala was underrated here.]

I wouldn't ever say we should be winning tournaments, but we should be aiming to win tournaments, and in my opinion continuing to stick with Southgate is like saying 'boy I sure hope we manage to get to another semi final at some point.'

I hope he proves me wrong, and I'll hold my hands up if he does.

 

[in_the_top_one]

I wouldn't ever say we should be winning tournaments, but we should be aiming to win tournaments, and in my opinion continuing to stick with Southgate is like saying 'boy I sure hope we manage to get to another semi final at some point.'

I hope he proves me wrong, and I'll hold my hands up if he does.

Whereas I see that we are aiming to win tournaments, and that we have come closer than ever before. (Except that one time.)

I'm with Pope though. Who are you going to replace him with that you would be super confident would improve results? I can't see an englishman.

 

[weejockmcplop]

Whereas I see that we are aiming to win tournaments, and that we have come closer than ever before. (Except that one time.)

I'm with Pope though. Who are you going to replace him with that you would be super confident would improve results? I can't see an englishman.

And that's really well done by Southgate and he deserves respect for it, especially from where we were before he took over.

So do we stop there? We got close, so that's it? I'd like to see us trying to progress and I haven't seen that in a few years. Like I said before every manager gives you diminishing returns over time, and if you compare how our team are playing to how they were playing 4 years ago I'm struggling to see any real progress at all, even though our squad is slightly better now imo.

I've made a case for Eddie Howe, but that relies on him wanting the job and being available.
Maybe we get a foreigner.

 

[Will.NFFC]

All very reasonable. My point isn't that I'm blaming the squad, but there is a lot of space between that and saying we should be winning competitions. We've got a squad that is more than capable of competing, but it isn't a shoe-in for a trophy.

Semi-final, Final, Quarter-final (where we were unlucky to go out against France who themselves were unlucky to lose in the final on penalties). I'd say our results aren't a massive underperformance based on our squad, which is what a lot of people are saying, despite having several weak links.
Apparently we have the fourth best recent record against the top ten. Just behind Belgium, a bit behind Spain, and quite a long way behind France.


[Also, Mangala was underrated here.]

I agree with what you’re saying but then I don’t think anyone’s a shoe I really.

In terms of finals, on the face of it, it looks good - but we’ve also had such nice run ins to get to those finals and have always blown it against anyone half decent. That Italy final was dreadful from Southgate, Croatia Semi’s not much better.

He needs a comprehensive victory in a competitive match against a team in and around us as I don’t think he’s ever done that.

Love Mangala - said it was a ridiculous decision to sell our best performing player mid season during a relegation battle but apparently a deal up to £25m was ‘unbelievable business’…. Still can’t believe anyone thinks that’s true when we bought Sangare for £30m. Terrible.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Love Mangala - said it was a ridiculous decision to sell our best performing player mid season during a relegation battle but apparently a deal up to £25m was ‘unbelievable business’…. Still can’t believe anyone thinks that’s true when we bought Sangare for £30m. Terrible.

It's a large profit and, you may have noticed, premier league rules require us to make a lot of large profit by an arbitrary date.

To go from £8m or so to £25m is unbelievable business in 18 months.

No point getting snippy at people who suspected P&S was going to fuck us for another season all along

 

[Will.NFFC]

It's a large profit and, you may have noticed, premier league rules require us to make a lot of large profit by an arbitrary date.

To go from £8m or so to £25m is unbelievable business in 18 months.

No point getting snippy at people who suspected P&S was going to fuck us for another season all along

It was close to £13m rather than £8m and £25m with much of it clearly in add ons is only half decent business if you replace the player or your position in the league allows you to do so… neither has transpired and we’re now staring down the barrel of relegation.

No, it’s obviously not all to do with selling Mangala, but it certainly hasn’t helped, and given Caicedo went for £110m, I find it hard to be pleased about the fee we’ve got when I’m not convinced Caicedo’s any better.

In regards to FFP, it’s the clubs fault - they signed players knowing they’d be up against it. As a result, one of the few half decent pieces of business becomes irrelevant.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

It was close to £13m rather than £8m and £25m with much of it clearly in add ons is only half decent business if you replace the player or your position in the league allows you to do so… neither has transpired and we’re now staring down the barrel of relegation.

No, it’s obviously not all to do with selling Mangala, but it certainly hasn’t helped, and given Caicedo went for £110m, I find it hard to be pleased about the fee we’ve got when I’m not convinced Caicedo’s any better.

In regards to FFP, it’s the clubs fault - they signed players knowing they’d be up against it. As a result, one of the few half decent pieces of business becomes irrelevant.

I just disagree with you I think Will.

For a start, it's a decent profit whatever. I've seen various figures of what we paid, and obviously what we paid might be some add ons too.

Second, Mangala seems to have jumped at the chance and has spent a fair bit of the season not playing; to the point where a few of us were speculating that we might be avoiding his 50th appearance because it might trigger a payment. Presumably not the case, but that's how odd his absence seemed for so long. He seems to have been happy to move, and I suspect it was what he wanted.

I'd also dispute your final paragraph. Having now read the Commission's report, I'm absolutely fuming at a stitch up from the premier league, not at the club.

I think we've bought a lot of players that have increased value. Obviously Wood was never going to be one of them, but the likes of Murillo, Awoniyi, MGW, Elanga, CHO, Dominguez and Williams are all probably worth more than we paid. Williams was a high fee but I think we'd get more for him now

 

[Polly 433]

It was close to £13m rather than £8m and £25m with much of it clearly in add ons is only half decent business if you replace the player or your position in the league allows you to do so… neither has transpired and we’re now staring down the barrel of relegation.

No, it’s obviously not all to do with selling Mangala, but it certainly hasn’t helped, and given Caicedo went for £110m, I find it hard to be pleased about the fee we’ve got when I’m not convinced Caicedo’s any better.

In regards to FFP, it’s the clubs fault - they signed players knowing they’d be up against it. As a result, one of the few half decent pieces of business becomes irrelevant.

Yeah. We should have done what Shef Utd have done and kept our wallet closed.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Yeah. We should have done what Shef Utd have done and kept our wallet closed.

Apparently, if they managed to stay up this season they would breach P&S. Despite selling their best player and hardly spending anything.

That's now shite it is

 

[TMFwanstead]

I totally agree. Our keeper is no more than decent, our centre backs are largely bang average and we don’t seem to have a left back.

We have Rice, Bellingham, Foden, Saka and Kane who you could make arguments for being in the world class category but beyond that?

Southgate got a team with Pickford, Maguire, Henderson and/or Phillips to a semi final and a final. Let that sink in…

He is as good as anyone else, better than most. The argument that he is cautious ignores just how bad our defence is and how prone it is to collapse.

I like O’Neill. I think he, if anyone, has the ability to become a top manager but he is two years into that journey. Southgate will be gone after this tournament and I wouldn’t be surprised if we go backwards when he leaves.

Well if you have 5 world class players you have a chance. Add in players who I think are just one class below in Maddison, Mainoo, Alexander-Arnold and when his head is right Rashford and probably Stones you have quite a squad. Even below that there are very good players like Bowen, Palmer, Watkins and Toney, reasonable full backs not as strong as a few years ago but for me lack of depth there and at center half is our problem and the manager of course

 

[Basha73]

Well if you have 5 world class players you have a chance. Add in players who I think are just one class below in Maddison, Mainoo, Alexander-Arnold and when his head is right Rashford and probably Stones you have quite a squad. Even below that there are very good players like Bowen, Palmer, Watkins and Toney, reasonable full backs not as strong as a few years ago but for me lack of depth there and at center half is our problem and the manager of course

But that’s the point - we have a chance. No divine right, no the manager must be shit. We had 50 plus years of failure and the mentality that brings to deal with too.

Now we seem to have a sense of entitlement on the back of 2 decent tournaments and all of a sudden the manager who oversaw those tournaments isn’t good enough…

 

[finbar70]

On England, I can see us trying for Pep. Don't know why, just can.

Forest transfer strategy this summer - Keep our best players, add to improve what we need in a quality v quantity way, sell for what we can get for those players we need to move (Vlach, Worrall, maybe loan Turner out, Bowler, Dennis, O'Brien etc) while considering sales of Toff and Niakhate.

Totally ignore the PSR situation while going legal to bring down this corrupt set of rules by the PL, and align with Everton, Leicester, Newcastle, Wolves and whoever to fight for opportunity of all clubs in the pyramid outside the top 6/8 to have the right to compete if they have the financial means.