England v Belgium | Page 3 | Vital Football

England v Belgium

TMFwanstead said:
Great players terrible manager. Surely we must have someone better than southgate. Why can we all see it except for the FA. I would even bring Rednapp in for the euros ahead of this clown
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Some great players, but certainly not all.
I can believe there are many better managers than Southgate but lolling at Rednapp.
 
in_the_top_one said:
With how many games left before the Euros?
After qualifying with six wins, two draws, and zero defeats?

There's no justification for sacking him.
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Most opponents that we play are League One at best.

Yes. We beat a transitional Italy which is pretty much the only time Southgate has beaten a decent side.
 
in_the_top_one said:
Some great players, but certainly not all.
I can believe there are many better managers than Southgate but lolling at Rednapp.
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That was a bit tongue in cheek. We do have grea5 players other than defence I’m afraid which with the manager ultimately will be our Achilles heel. If we had 2 outstanding defenders alongside a decent manager we would win tournaments
 
weejockmcplop said:
Well as soon as there's someone to replace him, which I assume will be after the Euros anyway.
Eddie Howe might be free by then.
We qualify well, but then we have to play good teams playing their best and that's where we always seem to come undone.
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Eddie Howe. Good shout!
I've wanted him at Forest for years
 
weejockmcplop said:
Well as soon as there's someone to replace him, which I assume will be after the Euros anyway.
Eddie Howe might be free by then.
We qualify well, but then we have to play good teams playing their best and that's where we always seem to come undone.
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And there is the problem

"Eddie Howe might be free by then".

Eddie Howe won't ever be a world class manager while there's a hole in his arse.

We are talking about an above mid table domestic manager becoming available soon because his current club, who want to become a permanent top four club, are likely to sack him because he can't do it.

Same with Potter, who has already had his crack at a top club and failed miserably.

There are no world class English managers in the game at the moment. I can't think who the last one actually was. Our country doesn't really produce them.

Southgate is no worse than Howe. People want Howe, not because he's actually any good (he isn't) but because he is different. He has nothing in his locker Southgate doesn't have. Southgate at least has experience on his side as well
 
Pope John XXIII said:
And there is the problem

"Eddie Howe might be free by then".

Eddie Howe won't ever be a world class manager while there's a hole in his arse.

We are talking about an above mid table domestic manager becoming available soon because his current club, who want to become a permanent top four club, are likely to sack him because he can't do it.

Same with Potter, who has already had his crack at a top club and failed miserably.

There are no world class English managers in the game at the moment. I can't think who the last one actually was. Our country doesn't really produce them.

Southgate is no worse than Howe. People want Howe, not because he's actually any good (he isn't) but because he is different. He has nothing in his locker Southgate doesn't have. Southgate at least has experience on his side as well
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"An above mid table domestic manager."

Surely that's several levels above Southgate?
 
England fans always do this - this is the golden generation, this team should be steamrollering its way to the world cup. We have lots of talent, but the second string is bang average.

Southgate is the most successful manager in the last 50 years - he's revolutionised the england team and set up - the fact we're annoyed at just losing to Brazil and should have easily beaten Belgium is miles away from where weve been under Venables, Capello, Taylor, Robson

We're now one of the top teams in the world and can beat anyone..guess what they can beat us too. Its like Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal playing every week
 
ZedRed said:
"An above mid table domestic manager."

Surely that's several levels above Southgate?
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No, it isn't.

Because international and domestic football are different.

Even a great club manager might not make a great international. Great international managers may be shite at club level. Southgate was a disaster at club level.

The FA are trying to develop their own international managers, in the knowledge that the English pool of club managers are beyond appalling
 
Marco Polo said:
England fans always do this - this is the golden generation, this team should be steamrollering its way to the world cup. We have lots of talent, but the second string is bang average.

Southgate is the most successful manager in the last 50 years - he's revolutionised the england team and set up - the fact we're annoyed at just losing to Brazil and should have easily beaten Belgium is miles away from where weve been under Venables, Capello, Taylor, Robson

We're now one of the top teams in the world and can beat anyone..guess what they can beat us too. Its like Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal playing every week
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We have better players than Brazil and Belgium for once.

The last time we had a better side than Brazil was 1990.

Belgium is a bit more recent than that, but still....
 
Marco Polo said:
England fans always do this - this is the golden generation, this team should be steamrollering its way to the world cup. We have lots of talent, but the second string is bang average.

Southgate is the most successful manager in the last 50 years - he's revolutionised the england team and set up - the fact we're annoyed at just losing to Brazil and should have easily beaten Belgium is miles away from where weve been under Venables, Capello, Taylor, Robson

We're now one of the top teams in the world and can beat anyone..guess what they can beat us too. Its like Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal playing every week
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I agree with everything you've said, except it all just seems to be stagnating now.
You always get diminishing returns after a certain amount of time with managers. Southgate has had ages and we aren't seeing any more improvements from where we were 4-5 years ago.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
And there is the problem

"Eddie Howe might be free by then".

Eddie Howe won't ever be a world class manager while there's a hole in his arse.

We are talking about an above mid table domestic manager becoming available soon because his current club, who want to become a permanent top four club, are likely to sack him because he can't do it.

Same with Potter, who has already had his crack at a top club and failed miserably.

There are no world class English managers in the game at the moment. I can't think who the last one actually was. Our country doesn't really produce them.

Southgate is no worse than Howe. People want Howe, not because he's actually any good (he isn't) but because he is different. He has nothing in his locker Southgate doesn't have. Southgate at least has experience on his side as well
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I would prefer we looked at Gary o’Neil. Has to be the best domestic choice at present even accepting his inexperience. He is certainly the only one I think that will keep improving and he isn’t afraid to go after teams.
 
ZedRed said:
We have better players than Brazil and Belgium for once.

The last time we had a better side than Brazil was 1990.

Belgium is a bit more recent than that, but still....
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We have ‘some’ better players than Brazil and Belgium. Beyond a certain point ‘better’ is subjective.

Southgate is a cautious manager and that doesn’t necessarily suit our current pool of players.

The set up however has been revolutionised. The effect of ‘cliques’ has been minimised and for the most part it is a happy camp with players wanting to play for England. For that and the fact that he is our second most successful manager ever surely deserves a bit more respect than he is currently getting.
 
Basha73 said:
I would prefer we looked at Gary o’Neil. Has to be the best domestic choice at present even accepting his inexperience. He is certainly the only one I think that will keep improving and he isn’t afraid to go after teams.
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But that's the crux of it isn't it?

"Southgate absolutely has to go".

Who to replace him?

"Erm... Gary O'Neil has done quite well to keep Bournemouth and Wolves clear of relegation".

It's absolutely dire.

There probably isn't anyone English who is actually better than Southgate in any measurable way beyond having a different face. And that is not defending Southgate.

There are no English master tacticians. There are no English managers with experience managing a team of huge stars. No English manager with experience of having top level players and getting them to perform- other than Southgate.

We have English managers with experience, in the premier league, of getting good results from limited resources in a league full of bigger and richer teams.

That isn't what we are after is it?

I mean, people on here seem to reckon we already have the best team, or close to it.

Who was the last English manager to win the premier league title? Has an English manager ever won the Premier League since 1992?

Who was the last English manager to win something, full stop?
 
Marco Polo said:
England fans always do this - this is the golden generation, this team should be steamrollering its way to the world cup. We have lots of talent, but the second string is bang average.

Southgate is the most successful manager in the last 50 years - he's revolutionised the england team and set up - the fact we're annoyed at just losing to Brazil and should have easily beaten Belgium is miles away from where weve been under Venables, Capello, Taylor, Robson

We're now one of the top teams in the world and can beat anyone..guess what they can beat us too. Its like Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal playing every week
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Well he should be with the players he has at his disposal! He has no tactical acumen and is totally uninspiring. He got the job on the basis of what he did with the under 21s not what he did at club level. As for the talent imo it’s almost second to none with a few weaknesses but unless you were Brazil 1970 that’s been what all winning teams have. A few areas of weakness. We need some sort of coaching academy to bring better coaches along for the future. In the meantime other than Eddie Howe it’s hard to see who would be Southgates successor which is depressing!
 
Did I forget Mings?


Obviously the first choice attackers are mostly fantastic players and among the best in the world but they are not the only good attackers in the world and at the top level you can get undone by any number of quality forwards, especially with our defence.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
And there is the problem

"Eddie Howe might be free by then".

Eddie Howe won't ever be a world class manager while there's a hole in his arse.

We are talking about an above mid table domestic manager becoming available soon because his current club, who want to become a permanent top four club, are likely to sack him because he can't do it.

Same with Potter, who has already had his crack at a top club and failed miserably.

There are no world class English managers in the game at the moment. I can't think who the last one actually was. Our country doesn't really produce them.

Southgate is no worse than Howe. People want Howe, not because he's actually any good (he isn't) but because he is different. He has nothing in his locker Southgate doesn't have. Southgate at least has experience on his side as well
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Agree with everything you’re saying but how many top level managers ever coach at intentional level for their respective countries? Klopp hasn’t, Pep hasn’t, Mourinho hasn’t. Nobody has really - that’s why international football is such a bag shit and I have no interest in it.
 
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