#COVID19 | Page 415 | Vital Football

#COVID19

Some SAGE greatest hits:

3rd Feb - advises against travel restrictions.

5th Feb - claims shutting down public gatherings or having people wear facemasks on public transport would be ineffective.

11th Feb - says contact tracing and mass testing is not possible for the UK

20th Feb - receives analysis that social distancing is an effective measure in China and Hong Kong. Still does not recommend it.

5th March - finally starts to consider that those with Covid should self isolate.

March 13th - oops we aren't a couple of months behind Italy as we thought. Hmm actually some testing would be nice.

March 16th - oh yeah that social distancing thing we rejected a month ago despite it working elsewhere might actually be a good idea. Change of advice.

March 16th - oh yeah that testing thing we weren't bothered about actually is important.

Apr 7th - nah, still don't bother with facemasks.

May 5th - hmm seems like old people are dying in care homes, perhaps we should consider them.

May 7th - thanks Neil Ferguson for his wildly inaccurate data and for breaching lockdown rules.
 
It's a grim list indeed, CP.

It is important to gauge the headlines carefully.
I certainly wouldn't believe conclusions drawn and broadcast by the government.
Statements directly out of the mouths of Whitty or Valance are pretty reliable since their reputations hang on them but are they giving their personal views or a unanimous view of the whole committee? Were they sentences in isolation, or as part of a larger paragraph /discourse? Scientists are typically reluctant to conclude much without adding the list of caveats and margins of error.

Like I say I do agree with you that they have underperformed and made mistakes. My hunch is that the speaking truth to power bit went a bit flaccid in the face of weak datasets and an inability to demand that their recommendations for what they knew was urgently needed (testing, ppe) be met.

They are still only an advisory service, one cog in the decision making machine. I remember them continually distancing themselves from policy.

I would like to see all their minutes and reports released.
This is spilt milk. Let's see what changes in future.
 
Well worth a click onto that twitter thread. Not.

The Red Pill (the definition of modern woke!) with pages of comments almost entirely referring to her as looking like a horse. The single reply that doesn't talk about her looking like a horse implores us that we all need to wake up.
So woke it hurts.
 
in_the_top_one said:
It's a grim list indeed, CP.

It is important to gauge the headlines carefully.
I certainly wouldn't believe conclusions drawn and broadcast by the government.
Statements directly out of the mouths of Whitty or Valance are pretty reliable since their reputations hang on them but are they giving their personal views or a unanimous view of the whole committee? Were they sentences in isolation, or as part of a larger paragraph /discourse? Scientists are typically reluctant to conclude much without adding the list of caveats and margins of error.

Like I say I do agree with you that they have underperformed and made mistakes. My hunch is that the speaking truth to power bit went a bit flaccid in the face of weak datasets and an inability to demand that their recommendations for what they knew was urgently needed (testing, ppe) be met.

They are still only an advisory service, one cog in the decision making machine. I remember them continually distancing themselves from policy.

I would like to see all their minutes and reports released.
This is spilt milk. Let's see what changes in future.
Click to expand...

You know me better than that, I have taken those headlines from their own minutes...

Tend to agree with your assessment though as to the why's.

It is spilt milk, but you were providing a list of spilt milk.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
You know me better than that, I have taken those headlines from their own minutes...
Click to expand...
You might have paraphrased a little bit!?

"
March 13th - oops we aren't a couple of months behind Italy as we thought. Hmm actually some testing would be nice.

March 16th - oh yeah that social distancing thing we rejected a month ago despite it working elsewhere might actually be a good idea. Change of advice.

March 16th - oh yeah that testing thing we weren't bothered about actually is important.

Apr 7th - nah, still don't bother with facemasks.

May 5th - hmm seems like old people are dying in care homes, perhaps we should consider them."

I didn't know the minutes were available - that's good.
:thumbup:
 
Calvin Plummer said:
What are you babbling on about?
Click to expand...

NZ has issued emergency laws, including the right for the police to enter a home without a warrant & the right to close down businesses with no appeal.

Now forced testing, inc held against your will until you comply.
 
strettea red said:
NZ has issued emergency laws, including the right for the police to enter a home without a warrant & the right to close down businesses with no appeal.

Now forced testing, inc held against your will until you comply.
Click to expand...

14 days it sounded like if you refused the test, not till you comply...

Civil libertines are a very interesting debate here and in general something I tend to value so highly that i have a bit of a political crush on David Davis despite finding him generally repugnant. Also my main issue with Blair and the left was his surrendering of them so freely. However I'm not a libertarian but even if I were it's clear an individuals behaviour does have the potential to harm others.

Where do you stand then on lockdowns, face masks, social distancing and perhaps most importantly vaccines?
 
in_the_top_one said:
You might have paraphrased a little bit!?

"
March 13th - oops we aren't a couple of months behind Italy as we thought. Hmm actually some testing would be nice.

March 16th - oh yeah that social distancing thing we rejected a month ago despite it working elsewhere might actually be a good idea. Change of advice.

March 16th - oh yeah that testing thing we weren't bothered about actually is important.

Apr 7th - nah, still don't bother with facemasks.

May 5th - hmm seems like old people are dying in care homes, perhaps we should consider them."

I didn't know the minutes were available - that's good.
:thumbup:
Click to expand...

It was a loving tribute to Sue Townsend!
 
Calvin Plummer said:
14 days it sounded like if you refused the test, not till you comply...

Civil libertines are a very interesting debate here and in general something I tend to value so highly that i have a bit of a political crush on David Davis despite finding him generally repugnant. Also my main issue with Blair and the left was his surrendering of them so freely. However I'm not a libertarian but even if I were it's clear an individuals behaviour does have the potential to harm others.

Where do you stand then on lockdowns, face masks, social distancing and perhaps most importantly vaccines?
Click to expand...

The lockdown should fully end and now (caveats regarding high risk people) I comply with face masks, although the science is still debated regarding their efficacy, I love social distancing and I’m a huge vaccine fan (I have the flu one annually)
 
strettea red said:
The lockdown should fully end and now (caveats regarding high risk people) I comply with face masks, although the science is still debated regarding their efficacy, I love social distancing and I’m a huge vaccine fan (I have the flu one annually)
Click to expand...

Not exactly what I was asking - should they be legislated for? Should refusing a vaccine (assuming there ever is an effective one) be compulsory? If so what do you do with those who refuse? If not, then a vaccine becomes near valueless and the harm to the economy and society continues.
 
I despaired over the scientists, they stood in front of the nation time and time again and were weak and swayed by political / financial considerations. The economic impact was not thier concern, they needed to convey the seriousness of the virus.

logic isn't their sole domain anyway and politicians dont govern by it.

ME N MISSUS: JANUARY fook me, those deaths are doubling every 3 days
ME N MISSUS: FEBRUARY fook you, Old and vulnerable folk need to go into lockdown
ME N MISSUS: MARCH. Stop all flights etc in and out , lock everyone down for 3 weeks and cut it off at the roots
ME N MISSUS: APRIL Oh dear
 
strettea red said:
The lockdown should fully end and now (caveats regarding high risk people) I comply with face masks, although the science is still debated regarding their efficacy, I love social distancing and I’m a huge vaccine fan (I have the flu one annually)
Click to expand...

it beggars belief that a debate is needed to show that covering your mouth and nose will spread less germs. Whats the question? its madness
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Not exactly what I was asking - should they be legislated for? Should refusing a vaccine (assuming there ever is an effective one) be compulsory? If so what do you do with those who refuse? If not, then a vaccine becomes near valueless and the harm to the economy and society continues.
Click to expand...
i think if i have the choice and am vaccinated (presuming it works) then i don't care if others don't. They arent a risk to me
 
strettea red said:
The lockdown should fully end and now (caveats regarding high risk people) I comply with face masks, although the science is still debated regarding their efficacy, I love social distancing and I’m a huge vaccine fan (I have the flu one annually)
Click to expand...
By the way, I conceded your point the other day that only a fifth of people 'can' get it based on the Diamond Princess data.

I was too hasty.

Other areas, with worse quarantine procedures than the Diamond Princess (which actually weren't too bad) have suffered infection rates over 50%. Even 57%. That changes the numbers quite a bit and you should probably revise your position accordingly.
 
Putting hefty fines for not wearing a mask, who is actually on the mask checking duty the police aren't. Opening up soft play just before schools are due to be back on, well known for their petri dish like properties another sound idea.
 
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