#COVID19 | Page 1087 | Vital Football

#COVID19

Strett said:
The erosion of civil liberties, with no clear end in sight, seems to be accepted by a disturbingly high amount of people.
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Perhaps after the massive loss of rights that was brexit people no longer see it as a big deal or simply dont have the energy/care to say or do something. Perhaps people are just fed up with being screamed at by one group or another?
 
radfordinlondon said:
Perhaps after the massive loss of rights that was brexit people no longer see it as a big deal or simply dont have the energy/care to say or do something. Perhaps people are just fed up with being screamed at by one group or another?
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What rights have people lost under Brexit?
 
Basha73 said:
The automatic right to live and work in the EU.

That should start the ball rolling…
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There was no automatic right to live in the EU.
In France for example, to do so you you had to be employed, self-employed, a student, a family member of an EU citizen, or unemployed with proof of financial means.

This is a popular misconception; that you could just trot off to another country and bum about in the sun.
 
Basha73 said:
The automatic right to live and work in the EU.

That should start the ball rolling…
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Here is what Italy's automatic right to live and work for EU citizens require, which is not that automatic...

EU nationals who move to Italy to live, work or study for longer than three months should register their presence at the offices of the local authority (Comune-Ufficio Anagrafe). EU citizens should apply for residency within 8 days of arrival. When registering they must be able to prove that they live, work or study in Italy and have sufficient financial means to support themselves, as well as health insurance. A certificate of registration (attestato d’iscrizione anagrafica) will be issued. This replaces the residence permit card for EU citizens.

The following documents plus copies must be presented:

Passport or other photo ID
Evidence of employment or self-employment
If retired or unemployed proof of sufficient financial resources
Health insurance
For students: evidence of enrolment in an educational facility, sufficient financial resources, a tax identification code, and health insurance
Tax stamp for €16.42; available at tobacconists and post offices
Fee (€27.50)
The registration certificate should be issued immediately and is supposed to be valid indefinitely; however, Italy, like many countries, limits validity to five years. Registration at a new local authority may be required after a change of address. Another document, the Identity Card (Carta d'identità) may be applied for at the same time as the registration certificate. This is valid within Italy only and will be posted to the applicant's home address.
 
Strett said:
Here is what Italy's automatic right to live and work for EU citizens require, which is not that automatic...

EU nationals who move to Italy to live, work or study for longer than three months should register their presence at the offices of the local authority (Comune-Ufficio Anagrafe). EU citizens should apply for residency within 8 days of arrival. When registering they must be able to prove that they live, work or study in Italy and have sufficient financial means to support themselves, as well as health insurance. A certificate of registration (attestato d’iscrizione anagrafica) will be issued. This replaces the residence permit card for EU citizens.

The following documents plus copies must be presented:

Passport or other photo ID
Evidence of employment or self-employment
If retired or unemployed proof of sufficient financial resources
Health insurance
For students: evidence of enrolment in an educational facility, sufficient financial resources, a tax identification code, and health insurance
Tax stamp for €16.42; available at tobacconists and post offices
Fee (€27.50)
The registration certificate should be issued immediately and is supposed to be valid indefinitely; however, Italy, like many countries, limits validity to five years. Registration at a new local authority may be required after a change of address. Another document, the Identity Card (Carta d'identità) may be applied for at the same time as the registration certificate. This is valid within Italy only and will be posted to the applicant's home address.
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Still more ‘automatic’ than it is now. You can twist and turn and troll as much as you like but we had rights within the EU that we don’t have now.

All of your deflections and obfuscations won’t change that.
 
Basha73 said:
Still more ‘automatic’ than it is now. You can twist and turn and troll as much as you like but we had rights within the EU that we don’t have now.

All of your deflections and obfuscations won’t change that.
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I'm sorry, but you stated quite categorically that it's an automatic right of an EU citizen to live anywhere in the EU, I am pointing out that it's not.
Pretty clear, no matter how much you deflect; it also shows that you didn't know what we hadn't, which is a theme with many remainers.
 
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Strett said:
I'm sorry, but you stated quite categorically that it's an automatic right of an EU citizen to live anywhere in the EU, I am pointing out that it's not.
Pretty clear, no matter how much you deflect; it also shows that you didn't know what we hadn't, which is a theme with many remainers.
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Your Italy example doesn’t work though - you are confusing automatic right with the need to ‘register’ the fact that you are there and you are an EU citizen. Seems to be a theme with Brexiteers to deliberately misinterpret something to prove a point…

I also notice you have steered clear of saying our rights haven’t changed or reduced. Again, pretty clear no matter how much you deflect or obfuscate. Not like you to do that at all… oh. Have a squirrel! 🐿🐿
 
Strett said:
I'm sorry, but you stated quite categorically that it's an automatic right of an EU citizen to live anywhere in the EU, I am pointing out that it's not.
Pretty clear, no matter how much you deflect; it also shows that you didn't know what we hadn't, which is a theme with many remainers.
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And ooh look this is what the EU have to say on the matter…

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citize...nationals-permanent-residence/indexamp_en.htm

https://www.immigration-italy.com/how-to-obtain-permanent-residence-in-italy

For EU members residence is automatic. For non-EU members not so much…
 
Basha73 said:
Your Italy example doesn’t work though - you are confusing automatic right with the need to ‘register’ the fact that you are there and you are an EU citizen. Seems to be a theme with Brexiteers to deliberately misinterpret something to prove a point…

I also notice you have steered clear of saying our rights haven’t changed or reduced. Again, pretty clear no matter how much you deflect or obfuscate. Not like you to do that at all… oh. Have a squirrel! 🐿🐿
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It does though.
As a UK citizen now I can travel for business in Italy for up to 90 days, without needing a visa or work permit. This is covered by the Schengen visa waiver.

After 90 days (3 months) you have to do stuff, as does an EU citizen.
 
Basha73 said:
And ooh look this is what the EU have to say on the matter…

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citize...nationals-permanent-residence/indexamp_en.htm

https://www.immigration-italy.com/how-to-obtain-permanent-residence-in-italy

For EU members residence is automatic. For non-EU members not so much…
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As with France, EU citizens must be either employed, self-employed, a student, a family member of an EU, or unemployed with proof of financial means (if you are under 65, you must have €537 per month if you are single with no children, and €805 if you are a couple with no children; rates increase for each additional number of children. Rates for those over 65 are €805 if you live alone and €1,247 if you are a couple).

So, again. No automatic right.
 
Strett said:
As with France, EU citizens must be either employed, self-employed, a student, a family member of an EU, or unemployed with proof of financial means (if you are under 65, you must have €537 per month if you are single with no children, and €805 if you are a couple with no children; rates increase for each additional number of children. Rates for those over 65 are €805 if you live alone and €1,247 if you are a couple).

So, again. No automatic right.
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So you are saying the EU website is wrong to clearly state ‘automatic right’? And the Italy website..? Ok if it makes you feel better…
 
Basha73 said:
So you are saying the EU website is wrong to clearly state ‘automatic right’? And the Italy website..? Ok if it makes you feel better…
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I'm not saying the EU site is wrong, no. What I am showing you is the French rules for living in metropolitan France as an EU citizen; which are not automatic, as I have shown.
 
Basha73 said:
So you are saying the EU website is wrong to clearly state ‘automatic right’? And the Italy website..? Ok if it makes you feel better…
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Where you may be getting twisted knickers is that you do not have to apply for residency, that is an EU legal right. You can do so if you wish and it’s free of charge and valid for up to five years, but you will need to show proof of employment or registered self-employment if you do.

So, again. Not automatic right to live.
 
Strett said:
I'm sorry, but you stated quite categorically that it's an automatic right of an EU citizen to live anywhere in the EU, I am pointing out that it's not.
Pretty clear, no matter how much you deflect; it also shows that you didn't know what we hadn't, which is a theme with many remainers.
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Not really. You said ".. a family member of an EU citizen". My whole family were EU citizens before Brexit.
 
Strett said:
Where you may be getting twisted knickers is that you do not have to apply for residency, that is an EU legal right. You can do so if you wish and it’s free of charge and valid for up to five years, but you will need to show proof of employment or registered self-employment if you do.

So, again. Not automatic right to live.
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After five years it is automatic for EU citizens which we aren’t anymore so can’t benefit from. So turning it back to the beginning we have lost an automatic right that we had as EU citizens. What was your question again? What rights have we lost..? Hmm.
 
Strett said:
It was a spurious swipe at infection rates compared to lockdown severity in countries with different curtailing of civil liberties. Nobody wants another lockdown.

FYI, I deleted it before reading your reply and only a couple of minutes after I posted it so don't get all giddy and drill a glory hole in trap 2 just yet, chap
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I'm not sure that's true chap - I wouldn't have been able to quote your original post had you deleted it.

So I WILL be drilling that hole, WILL be shoving my pulsing 2-inch through it and young Basha WILL be heading to trap 2 a bit urgent
 
AdebolaCornflakes said:
I'm not sure that's true chap - I wouldn't have been able to quote your original post had you deleted it.

So I WILL be drilling that hole, WILL be shoving my pulsing 2-inch through it and young Basha WILL be heading to trap 2 a bit urgent
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No, I said I deleted it before I read your reply, not before you replied to my deleted post.

Anyway, what carrier bags are the norm to stand in when in trap 3 chap, is Waitrose OK?
 
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