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Coronavirus

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
100 percent with you on this. Its who has a horse in the race i guess. Its very easy to say shut the schools when you haven't got kids at school and its easy for me to say the kids need to be in school because in my case i have one 5 months from A levels who has missed 3 months of his courses , has had nearly a year of disruption, stress and is still expected to be doing exams competing with his equivalents in Scotland, NI and Wales who are not doing exams. The other will be preparing for GCSE's this time next year
My lad was due to do his mocks next week and that's now changed with a few days notice.These are very young people.

They have not had any online lessons , just work set on email. Some marked , some not. We haven't had parents evenings. Remote learning mantra from the government is a joke and a lie.
Make no mistake with what has been achieved at private schools who had the funding and facilities to go online immediately the more the state kids are out of education the bigger the gap between haves and have not widens.

I appreciate what JF said about him being able to catch up and progress despite missing all his schooling but that is one individual. What we are facing is thousands upon thousands of kids needing to catch up months of lost time. There is no leeway for this amount to catch up because the next year are coming through and so on and on. There is no capacity to catch up.
People are dying. It isn't just the kids now getting it in order to spread it, it is the teachers and other adults at risk.

And yes there is time to catch up. And yes they are young, and actually, the young can adapt a lot easier than older people in my opinion, if they are given the credit to do so.

And I'm not that bright, or that much of an excemption. If I could do it, without the force of the education system behind me (they will mobilise for the entire classes/years - they - obviously - couldn't for just one person,in this example, me. I had to do it.

You don't need skin in the game, or a horse in the race, to be able to form an opinion. I do have a beautiful niece and a wonderful nephew at Uni, and friends with kids, it isn't an ignorant throwaway line I put re schools (and you weren't suggesting it was I'm sure).

Health comes first, for all though, the rest, can be sorted, no matter how disruptive right now it all is.

I don't have the answers on this, I don't have faith that our Government do either. I don't have faith in the public much either, so maybe we should just open everything, close the hospitals and be done.
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
I'm not that bright
He finally admits it! lol

It will take changes to the school calendar and teachers will have to accept fewer holidays for a bit, but we can make the time up if we get back ahead now with a proper lockdown instead of fannying about.

This continues to spread via kids and it's killed a few teachers as well.

I more than get Wurz and Melon's points however, in some ways there's no right answer here as there's a massive cost elsewhere. But we have to find a way to swallow that cost and offset it in terms of the health concerns.

Kids are the lightest hit from this, but given long Covid affects, I'm actually half dreading a 5/10yr study on U16s and the issues they may have down the line because everyone is so focused on 'it doesn't affect them'.
 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
Yup, no right answer, but kids are resiliant, far more so, than given credit for.

Nothing is right at the moment. Nothing at all. It won't be, we are going through a pandemic.
 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
What a mess.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55511662

Head teachers have begun legal action to force ministers to reveal data behind the decision for some schools to reopen on Monday.

The government said decisions are based on new infections and NHS pressure.
Labour has accused the government of "creating chaos" for parents.

Most primary schools in England are expected to open on Monday while secondary schools will reopen on a staggered basis, with exam year pupils returning on 11 January and others returning a week later.
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
It's an absolute fucking shambles. If Boris had any self respect he'd have resigned by now. 1922 are only not kicking up a fuss in my humble (we know they aren't happy) so they can pile on Bojo later in an attempt to wipe the slate clean for the next election.
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
Think it was Wurz earlier in the thread quoting someone who said lockdowns didn't work.

The numbers prove it did, problem was the Gov pandered both in not putting us into lockdown quick enough, but then particularly taking us out even a fortnight too early.

Had we stayed in lockdown back then for another month, given the numbers we saw, it would've been basically eradicated (I accept not 100%). Maybe hindsight but buying ourselves another 2/3 months with the NHS not at squeaky bum time could've seen us into the New Year and defacto into vaccine territory.

We could've avoided the shambolic tier system and all that pissing around to suit London before the new strain forced their hand and we would be in a far better place in my uneducated humble.
 

Gillette

Vital Squad Member
Government permanently behind....almost deliberately IMO.

Give all kids a year off with some advice on books to read etc. to make them more rounded people. Help families who can't work because kids at home. Offer online help for those that want it.

PS anyone arguing about holes in Covid rules is missing the point. Do the right thing...go beyond the rules. I question the intentions of anyone arguing such. They did this so I can do that. I live here and they live there.
FFS be responsible and grow a pair. You have the potential to kill someone!!

Economies can return, kids can catch up....dead people are gone forever.
Just imagine what working in a Covid ward must be like?
Imagine telling cancer patients they can't have treatment.


That is all.
 

Gillette

Vital Squad Member
Think it was Wurz earlier in the thread quoting someone who said lockdowns didn't work.

The numbers prove it did, problem was the Gov pandered both in not putting us into lockdown quick enough, but then particularly taking us out even a fortnight too early.

Had we stayed in lockdown back then for another month, given the numbers we saw, it would've been basically eradicated (I accept not 100%). Maybe hindsight but buying ourselves another 2/3 months with the NHS not at squeaky bum time could've seen us into the New Year and defacto into vaccine territory.

We could've avoided the shambolic tier system and all that pissing around to suit London before the new strain forced their hand and we would be in a far better place in my uneducated humble.
Said all that on here two days ago mate.
Cheers
 

BringbakMON

Vital 1st Team Regular
Think it was Wurz earlier in the thread quoting someone who said lockdowns didn't work.

The numbers prove it did, problem was the Gov pandered both in not putting us into lockdown quick enough, but then particularly taking us out even a fortnight too early.

Had we stayed in lockdown back then for another month, given the numbers we saw, it would've been basically eradicated (I accept not 100%). Maybe hindsight but buying ourselves another 2/3 months with the NHS not at squeaky bum time could've seen us into the New Year and defacto into vaccine territory.

We could've avoided the shambolic tier system and all that pissing around to suit London before the new strain forced their hand and we would be in a far better place in my uneducated humble.
haven't the Welsh had a couple of total lockdowns / 'circuit breakers' - their infection rates have been rising regardless and that's with a low incidence of the cockney covid ?

tier systems make sense - just some eejits think they don't apply to them
(but then the same folk don't 'understand' whatever is in place and it's always someone elses fault)

need to ramp up vaccinations and perhaps ease the need for diversity/anti radicalisation training for volunteers
 

Melon Donkey

Vital Football Legend
Government permanently behind....almost deliberately IMO.

Give all kids a year off with some advice on books to read etc. to make them more rounded people. Help families who can't work because kids at home. Offer online help for those that want it.

PS anyone arguing about holes in Covid rules is missing the point. Do the right thing...go beyond the rules. I question the intentions of anyone arguing such. They did this so I can do that. I live here and they live there.
FFS be responsible and grow a pair. You have the potential to kill someone!!

Economies can return, kids can catch up....dead people are gone forever.
Just imagine what working in a Covid ward must be like?
Imagine telling cancer patients they can't have treatment.


That is all.
So where are all these kids missing a year of school going to be educated then?.
Classes fit to burst at the moment and no kids leaving school yet more needing to come in at the other end. Nearly 20 year olds still in secondary school because they are still there having missed a year. 11 years old not moving to secondary school because there is no room.
Its not that simple just to say delay thousands of kids education for a year. I have no clue how they are going to sort this ( although a start would be a unified approach across the UK rather than pitching kids against each other unfairly ffs) but categorically your suggestion is not the answer or remotely achievable .
 
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Melon Donkey

Vital Football Legend
People are dying. It isn't just the kids now getting it in order to spread it, it is the teachers and other adults at risk.

And yes there is time to catch up. And yes they are young, and actually, the young can adapt a lot easier than older people in my opinion, if they are given the credit to do so.

And I'm not that bright, or that much of an excemption. If I could do it, without the force of the education system behind me (they will mobilise for the entire classes/years - they - obviously - couldn't for just one person,in this example, me. I had to do it.

You don't need skin in the game, or a horse in the race, to be able to form an opinion. I do have a beautiful niece and a wonderful nephew at Uni, and friends with kids, it isn't an ignorant throwaway line I put re schools (and you weren't suggesting it was I'm sure).

Health comes first, for all though, the rest, can be sorted, no matter how disruptive right now it all is.

I don't have the answers on this, I don't have faith that our Government do either. I don't have faith in the public much either, so maybe we should just open everything, close the hospitals and be done.
I‘m afraid I really didn’t need reminding of this JF.
 

colavfc

Vital 1st Team Regular
Im sorry but schools need to be closed.
1000 plus people in closed spaces, small corridors. It is impossible to socially distance in a school and kids arnt the most hygenic are they.
Yes children dont get effected by the virus but they are spreaders so can pass it to parents and god forbid grandparents.
Boo hoo... they lose a years education... thats the governments job to put a plan in place to counter it. Plus if we dont get past this will be pointless them getting an education because there wont be any god dam jobs for them to be educated for.
Kids at home may stop parents working... yeah maybe for a few months but again... if this isnt stopped you wont have a bloody job to worry about.
1 year out of education is not going to set them back that far. Its just not. It could kill their grandparents though.
Absolute no brainer to me.
Funny how infection rates have soared since schools and unis went back. 2+2=4.
 

BodyButter

Vital Football Legend
A friend of mine put this up on Facebook a few days ago.

The Irish Government has now completely abandoned scientific evidence and data driven debate in favour of complete hysteria! Almost a year ago there were over 600 people admitted to hospital EACH WEEK with Flu and the number in ICU was 94. There was no talk of public restrictions or shutting down the economy!
We now have FAR LESS people in ICU with Covid-19 (34 people) and there are only 454 people in Hospital TOTAL with Covid and despite that the Government is likely to announce later today that it will close the entire country on the world's most strict lockdown for MONTHS to come!
This is virtue signaling at its worst! 10 days ago the Government Health Service was forced once again to admit under a freedom of information request that it has yet to record a SINGLE CASE of seasonal FLU in the country this year! Ireland averages between 20,000 and 25,000 Flu cases EVERY YEAR!
Numbers don't lie, it's obvious that the lion's share of people hospitalized and in ICU are there BECAUSE OF FLU and also happen to have tested positive for Covid-19. The majority of people in Hospital WITH Covid-19 contracted it AFTER admission to hospital (an easy study of the admission and discharge numbers since August 1st prove this).
Our family will be actively ignoring any and all level 5 restrictions and will be encouraging and patronizing all businesses who do likewise. The Covid-19 Cult has to be reined in. We will also be travelling to jurisdictions where common sense still holds sway instead of constant fear mongering and superstition.


Her statistics are probably correct (I've not checked them) but am not persuaded that her proposed actions (as set out in the final paragraph) are in any way responsible or acceptable. One of my best friends died with Covid-19 jusr before Christmas and whilst I miss him greatly I'd still prefer to stay on this side of the great divide for a bit longer and intend to use an abundance of caution until I get vaccinated (whenever that will be) and to remain sensible thereafter.
Your friend is an idiot:

https://www.thejournal.ie/covid-19-hospital-5314532-Jan2021/
 

BodyButter

Vital Football Legend
One of the "plusses" of the Covid-19 pandemic is that there were (until 20th December anyway) NO lab confirmed cases of 'flu so far this winter.

The 2020 flu season continues with no lab confirmed influenza cases or outbreaks notified, from the start of the flu season up until last Sunday, December 20, Irish Medical Times reports.

https://www.imt.ie/news/no-confirmed-flu-cases-ireland-date-2020-season-24-12-2020/
I read somewhere that the flu always originates in China and spreads across the world. With virtually no international travel, there is no way for the flu to spread.
 

Wurzel

Vital Football Legend
Think it was Wurz earlier in the thread quoting someone who said lockdowns didn't work.

The numbers prove it did, problem was the Gov pandered both in not putting us into lockdown quick enough, but then particularly taking us out even a fortnight too early.

Had we stayed in lockdown back then for another month, given the numbers we saw, it would've been basically eradicated (I accept not 100%). Maybe hindsight but buying ourselves another 2/3 months with the NHS not at squeaky bum time could've seen us into the New Year and defacto into vaccine territory.

We could've avoided the shambolic tier system and all that pissing around to suit London before the new strain forced their hand and we would be in a far better place in my uneducated humble.

It depends what you want the lockdown to do. Most people think they can irradiate the virus, where is the evidence for this? There is none. It is arrogance to think it can.

I take my advice from the WHO, who are the experts in this

Large scale physical distancing measures and movement restrictions, often referred to as ‘lockdowns’, can slow COVID‑19 transmission by limiting contact between people.
However, these measures can have a profound negative impact on individuals, communities, and societies by bringing social and economic life to a near stop. Such measures disproportionately affect disadvantaged groups, including people in poverty, migrants, internally displaced people and refugees, who most often live in overcrowded and under resourced settings, and depend on daily labour for subsistence.
WHO recognizes that at certain points, some countries have had no choice but to issue stay-at-home orders and other measures, to buy time.
Governments must make the most of the extra time granted by ‘lockdown’ measures by doing all they can to build their capacities to detect, isolate, test and care for all cases; trace and quarantine all contacts; engage, empower and enable populations to drive the societal response and more.
WHO is hopeful that countries will use targeted interventions where and when needed, based on the local situation.
Link: https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/herd-immunity-lockdowns-and-covid-19

Lockdowns on their own do nothing but delay the inevitable. Time for that huge penny to drop isn't it?
 

Wurzel

Vital Football Legend
He finally admits it! lol

It will take changes to the school calendar and teachers will have to accept fewer holidays for a bit, but we can make the time up if we get back ahead now with a proper lockdown instead of fannying about.

This continues to spread via kids and it's killed a few teachers as well.

I more than get Wurz and Melon's points however, in some ways there's no right answer here as there's a massive cost elsewhere. But we have to find a way to swallow that cost and offset it in terms of the health concerns.

Kids are the lightest hit from this, but given long Covid affects, I'm actually half dreading a 5/10yr study on U16s and the issues they may have down the line because everyone is so focused on 'it doesn't affect them'.
No there is a right answer, kids need to be in school. Vulnerable staff, families, and children need to be shielded and supported with their education. Parents need to act like adults and stick to the guidance and not put senior vulnerable members of their family at risk. It really isn't that hard. I know we have been doing it for a year.
We had a very encouraging and sensible email from my children's Headteacher stating they fully intend for the year 5 & 6 kids to go back on Tuesday. I will continue to support and comply with any measures he requires to keep my kids in school.
 
Lockdowns on their own do nothing but delay the inevitable. Time for that huge penny to drop isn't it?
It has saved me from getting it and we got deaths down to less than 20 a day until Boris released the muppets and paid them to go for meals sent the students back and opened the schools.
I get that some people can't handle it but most people can, I hate staying in but I do it.
 

Wurzel

Vital Football Legend
Government permanently behind....almost deliberately IMO.

Give all kids a year off with some advice on books to read etc. to make them more rounded people. Help families who can't work because kids at home. Offer online help for those that want it.

PS anyone arguing about holes in Covid rules is missing the point. Do the right thing...go beyond the rules. I question the intentions of anyone arguing such. They did this so I can do that. I live here and they live there.
FFS be responsible and grow a pair. You have the potential to kill someone!!

Economies can return, kids can catch up....dead people are gone forever.
Just imagine what working in a Covid ward must be like?
Imagine telling cancer patients they can't have treatment.


That is all.
I give up, it seems the lunatics have taken over the asylum. Economies cannot return, kids cannot catch up. Have you any idea what damage this is doing for future generations both emotionally, health wise, and financially? It is exactly the point that we need to treat cancer patients that this total fixation on Covid is so dangerous. Hopefully the government are a bit more balanced than the stupid mass hysteria that is gripping some people.

And with that I am certainly out.