Cook needs to go!
- Thread starter Up the tics!
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craig214
Guest
What is your problem with that trip the manager requested and they agreed.
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craig214
Guest
he got sacked very quickly but he had signed some good players, just couldnt get them to play. So no he was a poor manager
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craig214
Guest
My heart says he should go my head says he should stay do you mean thats the right way round? I suspect its the other way round for most others.
Will_Shahane
Vital Squad Member
Oh okay, cheers man. If he had made the right signings it seems quite harsh that he wasn’t given the time to get them playing well together, don’t you think?
king_dezeeuw06
Vital Champions League
Yes I referenced that saying if your change of manager doesn't work then we end up with that debate. The point was Will saying if we sacked Cook and stay up it may not have been necessary as he may have done it and i was saying how the replacement performs will change the legacy of their predecessor. Everyone is universally happy to agree sacking Hutchings was right as Bruce was good, but as Malky and Joyce were rubbish we've got the argument Rosler and Caldwell were hard done by when they were doing just as bad if not worse than Hutchings. If Malky and Joyce kept us up nearly everyone would agree how bad Rosler and Caldwell were and if we change manager now come the end of the season if we are up or down will rewrite Cooks legacy.
Kenny Morris
Vital Squad Member
For your information "Mr Morris" has been ill and not on line, except fleetingly. So do not presume to know everything
moonay
Vital Football Legend
I got that KDZ ......... but we probably agree that Hutchings should never have been given the job in the first place............ and with him being gone after so few games, I still say he isn't a good comparator.
I do agree with your point re the success of the successor being an important aspect though.
bluebird21
Vital Newbie
Malky was previously successful. Would you have given him more time?
Rosler had completely lost the dressing room. I’ll never forget James McClean hanging around the away end at Bournemouth after being left out, telling anyone who would listen that no one had a clue what the manager was doing. That’s why I’ll never hold him in the esteem other fans seem to.
moonay
Vital Football Legend
No. The "previously successful" comment was within the context of their time with Wigan. ie the previous season.
Players aren't angels. Had he lost the whole dressing room, the majority, or just one or two influential (shit stirring?) players? No idea. I understand why he went ..... I was at that Bolton game. Maybe though, on reflection, it may have been better releasing a couple of the players instead.
Where does it say a problem? Was it beneficial? NO. Why would people suggest the playing squad going watching Liverpool and it to be paid for by the club, when alot of Evertonians in the club aswell...
Will_Shahane
Vital Squad Member
I remember that Bolton game clearly, and think we were a little unlucky to be honest. McManaman was incredible and could've had a hat trick with a little more luck; seem to remember he hit the woodwork twice and created several good chances. A couple of those go in and Rosler could've kept his job. Fine margins, eh?
moonay
Vital Football Legend
king_dezeeuw06
Vital Champions League
He seemed a nice guy, had a good positive attitude which was very refreshing after Jewell became very negative and defeatist by the end, made some good ambitious signings early in the summer like Sibieski, Bramble, Granqvist, Brown, Koumas (who was the best player outside the Prem at the time) and we started pretty well with 2 wins and a draw in the first 4 and went top of the Prem for a day or so at one point.
He had some diabolical bad luck in the following few games we had Kilbane sent off at Newcastle for literally winning a header in possibly the worst sending off i can ever remember, we lost against Reading with Koumas hitting the bar multiple times, we lost to Liverpool with a Bent goal being wrongly ruled offside and Agahowa missing an open goal from about 1 yard if i'm remembering correctly.
After that we went to Man U and got utterly battered where we made zero attempt to attack them and it became very apparent that at the back we were very disorganised and in the following few games we just couldn't keep the goals out. The confidence was going and Hutch didn't seem to be able to fix the flaws in our game. He lost another few and then went after a spirited defeat to Chelsea.
I really liked him as a person, he gave it a good go and he deserved a bit more luck than he got in some games but ultimately the writing was on the wall - he was out of his depth and you can't keep a manager on because you like them if they aren't good enough so it was absolutely the right thing to move him on when we did. Fair play to the club - they realised their mistake and put it right asap rather than kicking the can down the road and letting it fester into a deep crisis - like we have this time. Good no2s rarely make good no1s and it was the wrong appointment in the first place - but at least it allowed us to get Bruce in and that first year Bruce was in charged that spanned accross the second half of the 07/08 season and start of the 08/09 was probably one of the most enjoyable watching Latics - we were bloody good until Palacios went and Bruce seemed to throw a strop and couldn't be arsed anymore.
Will_Shahane
Vital Squad Member
Oh, sounds a bit unlucky then but perhaps the bad luck was a blessing in disguise, as it allowed us to identify that he was out of his depth, rather than the luck going for us which may have papered over the cracks. I really wish I could recall those early Premier League years (especially 05-06) and the Championship promotion-winning season before that. I'm a cricket fan as well, and apparently The Ashes 2005 was the best in history. It would've all been so good. Sadly all I have in that year are a few very vague recollections of my first year at school!
It is tough when you like the manager as a person, but know deep down that he isn't good enough to do the job you want him to. It's kind of how I felt about Caldwell in 2016-17 as he seemed a genuine guy and had served the Latics well as a player, and as a manager in 2015-16. But ultimately football is a results driven business.
I used to like Cook personally but now I'm starting to think maybe he's just one of those people that's nice when everything's going well, but throws his toys out of the pram when things aren't so great. It's very easy to be nice and courteous when you're winning every week as we were last season; the real reflection of someone's character is shown through how they act when the going gets tough in my opinion.
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Kenny Morris
Vital Squad Member
I was told that by a member of staff who was in and around the training and dressing room, believe me or don't i'm not really bothered, but the person had no reason to make it up
Kdz why do you describe our current predicament as a deep crisis?
Ipswich are in deep crisis Bolton are in deep crisis.
We haven't been bottom 3 all season and even though our form has been really poor we're still in with a very good chance of staying up.
I still think Cook is the right man for the job and will get things right. Personally I think he is struggling with trying to balance attacking and defending and has gone too cautious.
But with a nearly full squad to choose from the balance will come.
It's no coincidence that GC had the same issues after being an attacking force the previous season. So maybe the league is harder than we think and even the struggling teams have that bit more experience and quality than we have.
With Peter Reid and Joe Royle in the background I'm sure Cook must pick their brains even though they're both Evertonians ?.
Ipswich are in deep crisis Bolton are in deep crisis.
We haven't been bottom 3 all season and even though our form has been really poor we're still in with a very good chance of staying up.
I still think Cook is the right man for the job and will get things right. Personally I think he is struggling with trying to balance attacking and defending and has gone too cautious.
But with a nearly full squad to choose from the balance will come.
It's no coincidence that GC had the same issues after being an attacking force the previous season. So maybe the league is harder than we think and even the struggling teams have that bit more experience and quality than we have.
With Peter Reid and Joe Royle in the background I'm sure Cook must pick their brains even though they're both Evertonians ?.
king_dezeeuw06
Vital Champions League
It's not as deep after the moral boosting win but since our momentum stopped we had won 5 in the previous 29 games and only had about 5 good performances too, we had the worst away record in the whole country and were averaging less than a point per game during that time while our 3 relegation rivals were averaging at least a point per game or better, had already overhauled a 7 point gap and game in hand we had 3 weeks ago. Our manager appeared to have lost the plot with his subs costing us games, we struggled to score and couldnt hold a lead if we managed to get one, we struggled to beat teams in bad form with injury crisises who were there for the taking while our rivals picked up crucial wins and new January signings had largely flopped - we looked like we were in free fall and the bottom 3 was inevitable. It was a deep crisis with our good start masking the fact that only Bolton had got fewer points than us since our early season momentum stalled and our form collapsed.
Yesterday doesn't really change any of the above but hopefully it's the start of a turn around and not a West Brom, Villa or Blackburn home games like false dawn where normal service resumed immediately after.
