Bulgaria vs England | Page 2 | Vital Football

Bulgaria vs England

Thought Ian Wright was spot on tonight - slates UEFA for their lip service to “Respect” and anti-racism, but praises our players for their conduct tonight but also our game for how far we’ve come in comparison to these Neanderthals tonight. Disappointed with the FA boss, Clarke, though, who Wright rightly slated, for saying he trusted UEFA to take action, but to play the old “we need to sort our own act out” card... Err, we have, mate - we have nothing compared to what happened tonight. Tyldesley also tried to play this card in commentary saying something like “this has been terrible, but we need to sort our own act out - who can forget the incidents at Hartlepool and Gosport in the last season?” Obviously, we know a bit about the former as it involved a local club and our old boss, but to suggest we have similar problems to the black shirt wearing, Nazi saluting, monkey charting mob tonight, because two man and a dog at games 6 or 7 tiers down our spectrum have had some one off nasty minor racist incidents is way off the mark.

We need to get some perspective and call our these major and endemic racist issues on the continent and shouldn’t compare these issues to our own which have been almost completely wiped out.
 
Both England and Bulgaria charged - England for disruption of national anthem and not enough travelling stewards.
 
Surely it's as simple as informing the Bulgarian FA that they are no longer invited to play in UEFA tournaments until the address this issue.

Of course the same sanction should apply to other countries who break UEFA rules.
 
markinkent said:
Surely it's as simple as informing the Bulgarian FA that they are no longer invited to play in UEFA tournaments until the address this issue.

Of course the same sanction should apply to other countries who break UEFA rules.
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Looks like the next final will be Vatican City v Andorra then.
 
Interesting comments from a Bulgarian journalist. He said it's a combination of a number of things. You don't see black people or people of colour walking down the street/living in your community. Football in Bulgaria has largely been in the doldrums for the last 10-12 years with low crowds and ultras paid by clubs to attend matches and behave. It's almost like the people of Hartlepool hanging a monkey. Banning Bulgaria will be a sanction but will it help to 'cure' racism in that country?
 
ThreeSixes said:
Paul Ince didn't walk off though when he was racially abused...

https://news.paddypower.com/football/2019/09/04/paul-ince-racism-in-football-italy/

"Do as I say, not as I do".
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In Paul Ince's day of being racially abused as a player, he would have been fined for walking off the pitch. We didn't have any measures introduced as we have now.
As far as Wayne's comment regarding the Bulgarian reporter, it just shows that it is time that Bulgaria began to grow up, especially when the Bulgarian manager didn't hear anything coming from that organised group.
 
Wansalarf said:
As far as Wayne's comment regarding the Bulgarian reporter, it just shows that it is time that Bulgaria began to grow up, especially when the Bulgarian manager didn't hear anything coming from that organised group.
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It took us hundreds of years from slavery to the present day to deal with racial prejudice; so, to tell a nation that didn't have an empire, it's people have rarely seen a black person and a populist/nationalist government that foments this hatred to simply grow up is naive in the extreme.
 
Wayne.Kerr said:
It took us hundreds of years from slavery to the present day to deal with racial prejudice; so, to tell a nation that didn't have an empire, it's people have rarely seen a black person and a populist/nationalist government that foments this hatred to simply grow up is naive in the extreme.
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Only if people like you don't want to move on in life. All the time you are negative you will get nowhere.
 
Wayne.Kerr said:
It took us hundreds of years from slavery to the present day to deal with racial prejudice; so, to tell a nation that didn't have an empire, it's people have rarely seen a black person and a populist/nationalist government that foments this hatred to simply grow up is naive in the extreme.
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It's 2019, and Bulgaria have played in the World Cup for over 50 years. Do people need to be taught that it isn't OK to make monkey noises to black players?

Bulgaria doesn't need to be the first country in the world to cure racism, it just needs to make its fans to behave acceptably for 2 hours
 
Wansalarf said:
Only if people like you don't want to move on in life. All the time you are negative you will get nowhere.
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Where was I being negative? Telling a nation to grow up is like telling someone with depression to pull him/herself together.
 
ThreeSixes said:
Bulgaria doesn't need to be the first country in the world to cure racism, it just needs to make its fans to behave acceptably for 2 hours
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That is the most stupid thing I've read for ages. What you're saying is that racism is OK as long as it's kept outside the stadium for two hours. Jesus fucking Christ.
 
Wayne.Kerr said:
That is the most stupid thing I've read for ages. What you're saying is that racism is OK as long as it's kept outside the stadium for two hours. Jesus fucking Christ.
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But he's right Wayne. We cannot, and I wouldn't want us to, police thoughts. We do need to ensure that visible and audible racist activity is removed entirely from our games. I agree that much also needs to be done in the way of education but that is Bulgaria's problem to deal with in its own way.

Several on here appear to take comfort that we are better than Bulgaria, that we have virtually eradicated our own problems and that any residue is dealt with swiftly and effectively. I am uneasy at this self congratulatory and complacent view. Of course we don't have uniformed thugs organising racist chanting in our stadiums and for good reason. We have taken steps to make that illegal and have used sanctions to drive overt racism from our larger stadiums. It is often uglier down the food chain however because the spotlight doesn't spread there, witness Hartlepool and others.

Racists have taken heart from the aggressive posturing of the populists. It is absurd to deny that this is the case and important that we hold the line and improve things at every level.
 
jogills said:
But he's right Wayne. We cannot, and I wouldn't want us to, police thoughts. We do need to ensure that visible and audible racist activity is removed entirely from our games. I agree that much also needs to be done in the way of education but that is Bulgaria's problem to deal with in its own way.
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But saying that means you go against the whole understanding of how football should be managed. Fans and footballing authorities have argued that many of our problems stem from society and are not somehow cocooned inside football stadia. By sterilising the crowds at these games is putting your head in the sand. Countries like Bulgaria and teams like Napoli should be banned for 3, 4 or 5 years and efforts made by the UN and/or EU [especially] should make every effort to get clubs and countries to clean up their act. That said, if any club or fan in the English game falls out of line then no doubt we'll have to expect the worst because it seems we're forever tarnished. And racism hasn't disappeared in this country but, sadly, it's all coming to the surface again when you have Batten, erstwhile UKIP leader, Farage and even Johnson spewing out populist rhetoric. Be careful what you wish for.

PS I'm off to IKEA now so peace be upon you all
 
Two key points for me, which show just how desperate the situation and how far we are from resolving it:

Their manager claiming he heard no racism, when it was so prevalent and clear on the microphones. He'd even discussed it with the ref so clearly his senses would have been heightened to it and he still claimed to not have heard any and it was happening in his own language too, and his own captain even came out to discuss it with fans. Yet he did manage to hear the small amount of english abuse in another language that he doesnt speak and chose to complain about that! With him at the helm of bulgarian football, along with the president of their fa who also denied it, then its never a good thing.

My second point, their govt then finally does the first good thing and gets involved and forces the idiot president to resign....and fifa are now investigating their fa for allowing their govt to get involved in football matters. You couldnt write it. The govt is the only people standing up and finally doing something about it and they are investigated because of it! Racism in football is borne out of racism in society. You will struggle to stamp racism out of football the whole time theres still racists in our society. The two are closely intertwined, so a joined up solution with the govt is needed IMO.
 
Wayne.Kerr said:
But saying that means you go against the whole understanding of how football should be managed. Fans and footballing authorities have argued that many of our problems stem from society and are not somehow cocooned inside football stadia. By sterilising the crowds at these games is putting your head in the sand. Countries like Bulgaria and teams like Napoli should be banned for 3, 4 or 5 years and efforts made by the UN and/or EU [especially] should make every effort to get clubs and countries to clean up their act. That said, if any club or fan in the English game falls out of line then no doubt we'll have to expect the worst because it seems we're forever tarnished. And racism hasn't disappeared in this country but, sadly, it's all coming to the surface again when you have Batten, erstwhile UKIP leader, Farage and even Johnson spewing out populist rhetoric. Be careful what you wish for.

PS I'm off to IKEA now so peace be upon you all
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IKEA, ffs, you'll come back even angrier? ?
 
I see 3x6's point though, it's normal to be prejudiced, we all have prejudices but the crux here is to not discriminate based upon those feelings.
This thread is about football and specifically the Bulgaria match, surely the Bulgarian FA and UEFA only have a duty to police the way football fans, players and clubs behave, not society as a whole? That's up to individual responsibility and can't be controlled by them. Yes they can educate but they cannot stop someone having a hatred for other races, only make sure that it doesn't manifest itself in the football environment.
 
Wayne.Kerr said:
But saying that means you go against the whole understanding of how football should be managed. Fans and footballing authorities have argued that many of our problems stem from society and are not somehow cocooned inside football stadia.
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Do you think that Raheem Sterling cares what the average Bulgarian in Bulgaria privately thinks about him? It's the Nazi salutes and monkey chants in the stadium that are the issue.

You have never mentioned Bulgaria before as far as I'm aware? If someone on here was arguing that Bulgarians shouldn't have free movement into the UK, you would flip sides, and say that they should.
 
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