shotshy
Vital Champions League
I’m more about jobs here, than who actually owns the business here.
All that really matters is good, sustainable, well paid jobs.
brexit truth.
- Thread starter nitram77
- Start date
All that really matters is good, sustainable, well paid jobs.
What about "control"? I thought that was what Brexit was for. Not much control if a great deal is foreign owned.
Brexit should be the precursor to us not being so heavily reliant on other countries, as Lancs pointed out. Seriously.
I bet it isn't though.
Jerryattrick
Vital Football Hero
Now steady on Mark. The EU couldn't possibly do anything better than us. Remember we are exceptional in every way.
:-)
GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
Exactly. That is one of the main reasons for Brexit. The EU encouraged countries to concentrate and specialise in industries and, particularly during the Thatcher years, we closed down our main heavy industries, which stopped us being as self reliant as possible.
Had we continued in the EU that would have just become worse and worse, as years went by, but we now have a chance to stop the rot and diversify.
Do you seriously think that Brexiters thought that would be achieved overnight? Our main strengths lay in our small and medium size businesses and companies set up by our entrepreneurs, and they should see increased opportunities and an increased domestic market available to them, with far less protectionism and senseless international transfers of essentially the same products.
Most of the large companies that buy up our existing brand names are in fact international and multinational, with shares owned across the globe. BOC was mentioned earlier and they are owned by Linde plc which is described as having "roots and history in Germany" - It's headquarters is however in Dublin and it is quoted on the NYSE so any of us could buy shares and own a part of it.
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GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
Or alternatively, we couldn't possibly do anything better than the EU, including Greece Malta and Poland, as others may think.
Our weak position was created over decades, particularly boosted by Thatcher running down our indudtrial base and creating over reliance on our service industries.
I bet we don't "take back control" but genuinely hope I'm wrong, particularly for the sake of my children.
Btw, didn't bother reying to you re Vacci e triumphalism. It is strange how differently we see and remember things. I recall massive crowing and triumphalism from Johnson boasting about how much better we were/are.
Far from being "sick bastards", others were bemoaning how hopeless our Government were/are. Certainly weren't revelling in our death rate; such a reaction would be absurd.
shotshy
Vital Champions League
Taking back control simply means that the U.K. government make the decisions, not Brussels.
Whoever we decide to get into bed with is slightly irrelevant.
The point that it’s our decision is what matters.
Today’s news is all about a USA trade deal and the failure of Brexit to get it
What rubbish.
We trade billions with the US without a trade deal.
It would be nice, but not a game changer.
Whoever we decide to get into bed with is slightly irrelevant.
The point that it’s our decision is what matters.
Today’s news is all about a USA trade deal and the failure of Brexit to get it
What rubbish.
We trade billions with the US without a trade deal.
It would be nice, but not a game changer.
"We trade billions with the US without a trade deal.
It would be nice, but not a game changer."
Yes, agree with that. It is what we did before we left the EU. Johnson and the Leavers made out that we'd get a much better deal and it would be a major benefit of leaving. Turned out to be a damp squib, as I expected.
jokerman
Vital Football Hero
Long predating Brexit and the EEC, British policy favored finance capital over industrial capital because of judgements about a) where our competitive edge lay and b) the future of metal bashing and extractive industries in developed societies -Labour costs from the right and working conditions from the left.
Hence, the bias in UK policy towards light touch regulation and free movement of assets aside from labour. A good bet so long someone’s underwriting a global economic order Or a no-rules order is emerging. The EU project does not suit this strategy -it walls off our principal, or proximate, partners in the wrong sort of game. Brexit is a bet on emerging trends that we can do better beyond Europe by financial capital which, let’s face it, continues to provide most of the foreign earnings which finance the rest of us swapping services with each other. May turn out to be a good bet. Hard to see it right now though.
Hence, the bias in UK policy towards light touch regulation and free movement of assets aside from labour. A good bet so long someone’s underwriting a global economic order Or a no-rules order is emerging. The EU project does not suit this strategy -it walls off our principal, or proximate, partners in the wrong sort of game. Brexit is a bet on emerging trends that we can do better beyond Europe by financial capital which, let’s face it, continues to provide most of the foreign earnings which finance the rest of us swapping services with each other. May turn out to be a good bet. Hard to see it right now though.
Baghdad_Rob
Vital 1st Team Regular
I seem to recall Wayne confidently stating that trade deals take 10-20 years to negotiate. Considering we only left the transitional period in January, it is a bit harsh to judge it a damp squib after only 256 days
As we are still trading with the US "as was" then we are not actually better or worse off at this moment in time. We will no doubt sit down with US representatives in due course and thrash out a deal.
And then people who voted for Brexit will say it is a good deal and the remainers will claim it is the worse deal in history.
GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
Simple economics. We have a trade deficit with the EU so, regardless of their obvious wish to punish us for Brexit, it was in the interest of their own exporters to agree a free trade deal with the UK.
We have a trade surplus with the US even though neither we nor the EU have a free trade deal with them. Our only incentive for a free trade deal would be to make that trade surplus even bigger. Bearing that in mind, you can perhaps see why the US is not so keen at the present time. If the volume in both directions increases, that may change.
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GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
Yes you are right that we remember things differently, particularly time lines.
I seem to remember our death rates, by comparison to others, being highlighted as a way to score points by those like yourself who put the EU before the UK, even though you know that the government would have been acting on the advice of their medical and scientific experts.
And yet when Bozza claims partial credit for the sussessful vaccine rollout - obviously much later, you would then claim that it had nothing to do with him and was all down to the medical and scientific experts.
Can you not see a disparity there? Obviously not.
GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
Agree with that, but would also add that it will take time to see those effects, both good and bad. Way too early at the moment.
Therealwaldo
Vital Squad Member
You do talk some tripe The only economist the Brexit side could drag out in support of the case to leave was Patrick Minford. In front of the Brexit Select Committee, he openly admitted that Brexit would kill off the remainder of our manufacturing base and we would be left reliant on the service sector. As it works out, not only is he likely to be right on the first, the lack of any deal with the EU on services is crucifying that sector as well.
Also, the EU hasn’t encouraged countries to do anything. You still talk as if the EU is a single body rather than the embodiment of 27 sovereign states. We chose a path under Thatcher entirely of our own volition. In the same way, Germany has continued to nurture and support its manufacturing base. There was absolutely nothing stopping us doing what Germany did. We took a political decision not to do so.
jokerman
Vital Football Hero
I think there was a gradual decision that there was no future in manufacturing if you couldn’t be the best and didn’t want to protect, except in niche areas. The Germans, for example, always had us beat at steel quality and assembly quality, whatever our talents in design. You could aspire to the German route or fall back to the French route, but you couldn’t sustain something in between.
Therealwaldo
Vital Squad Member
Possibly so, but whatever, it had absolutely sod all to do with our membership of the EU.
As I recall I was comparing our dismal record on deaths with the rest of Europe (EU or not) as comparable countries. I was not saying we had a high death rate because we left the EU. We had a terrible record because of our appalling "leadership". Persistent failure to lockdown early enough on at least 3 occasions being perhaps the clearest example. These things were nothing to do with being in/out of the EU.
Johnson loudly and repeatedly claimed Brexit as a saviour due to the vaccine programme which I have already pointed out could have been conducted in or out of the EU. Approval of the vaccine came through before we had left. The purchase and rolling out of the vaccine (thanks NHS) is the one thing that went well but it looks as if even that advantage has been blown thanks to the general incompetence of this Government. I'd have preferred Thatcher to the bullshitting clown we've got.
Get ready for Johnson claiming a "world saving" agreement at the end of the COP26 summit.
LancsGordoRoad
Vital Champions League
On the basis of "little acorns", we should stand by for an American rush to buy up all current and future stocks of Chorley Cakes and Lancashire`s Cuckoo Gin. Nancy Pelosi and her entourage have started the ball, or acorns, rolling.... needed extra bags apparently.
