brexit truth. | Page 10 | Vital Football

brexit truth.

Gills 58 said:
As I recall I was comparing our dismal record on deaths with the rest of Europe (EU or not) as comparable countries. I was not saying we had a high death rate because we left the EU. We had a terrible record because of our appalling "leadership". Persistent failure to lockdown early enough on at least 3 occasions being perhaps the clearest example. These things were nothing to do with being in/out of the EU.

Johnson loudly and repeatedly claimed Brexit as a saviour due to the vaccine programme which I have already pointed out could have been conducted in or out of the EU. Approval of the vaccine came through before we had left. The purchase and rolling out of the vaccine (thanks NHS) is the one thing that went well but it looks as if even that advantage has been blown thanks to the general incompetence of this Government. I'd have preferred Thatcher to the bullshitting clown we've got.
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So you are taking the jaundiced view that the failure to lockdown early enough, was against the best advice from the experts in the NHS, and was an arbitary decision of the government, then? How exactly do you know that?

The only dissenting voice on government policy to come from the NHS experts has been from that guy that got suspended for breaking lockdown to knob a married colleague and he clearly has an axe to grind.

As far as I can tell, Johnson has only said that leaving the EU and making an independent decision on vaccine purchase outside the EU has helped, and even Von der Leyen agreed with that, with her reference to the number of states in the EU making the ability to reach a speedy decision like having turn round a tanker.
 
GillsBluenose said:
Yes you are right that we remember things differently, particularly time lines.

I seem to remember our death rates, by comparison to others, being highlighted as a way to score points by those like yourself who put the EU before the UK, even though you know that the government would have been acting on the advice of their medical and scientific experts.

And yet when Bozza claims partial credit for the sussessful vaccine rollout - obviously much later, you would then claim that it had nothing to do with him and was all down to the medical and scientific experts.

Can you not see a disparity there? Obviously not.
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The science and experts lol. All very fine if you agree with what they say.

Whether you agree with it or not - The science said kids did not need vaccinating based on risk but they went ahead with it anyway lol.
 
Jerryattrick said:
Same old conversations as if brexit or stay made any difference.
We are at the mercy of the same corporates and forces whether in or out of the EU. Divide and rule.
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Ain't that the truth ! - the EU is just one extra "force" or layer of power in the greater scheme of things.

It is just a question of whether it is one worth having, or regulates or keeps in check any of the others.

Socialism, when applied properly, is the closest to a "power to the people" situation and unfortunatelly the majority decide to reject it so we can not really complain about the result.
 
GillsBluenose said:
So you are taking the jaundiced view that the failure to lockdown early enough, was against the best advice from the experts in the NHS, and was an arbitary decision of the government, then? How exactly do you know that?

The only dissenting voice on government policy to come from the NHS experts has been from that guy that got suspended for breaking lockdown to knob a married colleague and he clearly has an axe to grind.

As far as I can tell, Johnson has only said that leaving the EU and making an independent decision on vaccine purchase outside the EU has helped, and even Von der Leyen agreed with that, with her reference to the number of states in the EU making the ability to reach a speedy decision like having turn round a tanker.
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Unworthy of a reply. You've lost it there.
Ref Jerry's reply on post 183.
 
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shotshy said:
I think that you will recall me saying that Brexit would not be as good as some hoped and not as bad as some wished.
It’s now done.
The rest is on us whether you voted for it or not.
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Its is now down to us to make the best of it I agree.

I am biased for personal reasons but have there been any tangible benefits or are they still to appear ?
 
There are some rather bitter folk here too in Spain.
They haven't 'played the game' and have avoided registering themselves etc. , and are now facing administrative problems.
Others just generally moaning.
I went to a bar yesterday , and a few were rather angry about Brexit and its consequences.
 
markinkent said:
I am biased for personal reasons but have there been any tangible benefits or are they still to appear ?
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Just off the top of my head....

Seem to be less massive foreign trucks spewing out diesel fumes on the M20 to deliver "vital" supplies like mushrooms, tomatoes and flowers.

Unnecessary membership fees, to pay an unnecessary extra army of bureaucrats laying out dictats of what we can and can not do, in the process of being stopped.

An actual say in how many workers can work and settle in this country at a time when unemployment may have risen due to a little thing like a pandemic.

A little unimportant old fashioned thing called self determination, really.
 
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GillsBluenose said:
Just off the top of my head....

Seem to be less massive foreign trucks spewing out diesel fumes on the M20 to deliver "vital" supplies like mushrooms, tomatoes and flowers.

Unnecessary membership fees, to pay an unnecessary extra army of bureaucrats laying out dictats of what we can and can not do, in the process of being stopped.

An actual say in how many workers can work and settle in this country and a time when unemployment may have risen due to a little thing like a pandemic.

A little unimportant old fashioned thing called self determination, really.
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I thought the general view in the country was the lack of HGV drivers was a cause for concern not celebration. Simarly with lack of agricultural workers.

I also thought job openings were at a record high. Stories full of problems recruiting

In terms of self determination what have we changed that we couldn't do previously.

I'm after real tangible benefits that have improved life in the UK e.g non payment of fees thats a good one.
 
The U.K. is the first European country to ban live animal exports.
I’m currently lobbying my MP to raise the question of the size of fishing vessels in U.K. waters.
As an independent nation, we can govern the size of boats and the style of fishing.
We have already banned pulse fishing (electrocution)
 
shotshy said:
The U.K. is the first European country to ban live animal exports.
I’m currently lobbying my MP to raise the question of the size of fishing vessels in U.K. waters.
As an independent nation, we can govern the size of boats and the style of fishing.
We have already banned pulse fishing (electrocution)
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We won’t be compelled to get involved in the Eu army.
We may choose to in some degree but that will be our choice.
I read yesterday in Politico that should Macron win the election next year, he’s considering giving up France’s seat as permanent members of the security council and offering it to the Eu.
We joined a common market and left an Empire.
 
shotshy said:
We won’t be compelled to get involved in the Eu army.
We may choose to in some degree but that will be our choice.
I read yesterday in Politico that should Macron win the election next year, he’s considering giving up France’s seat as permanent members of the security council and offering it to the Eu.
We joined a common market and left an Empire.
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Not sure if the UK would have to agree to an EU seat on the Security Council? Would be great if we were able to use our veto threat to secure more sensible cooperation from France/EU. Possibly too both Russia and China might not be keen on allowing the seat to be transferred to a cartel rather than a sovereign nation.
 
To be honest Trev, I don’t think that the Security Council would allow it anyway.
The story of a joint Eu military force was touted as bullcrap and would never happen during the debate but looks like it’s got legs so you never know.
 
markinkent said:
I thought the general view in the country was the lack of HGV drivers was a cause for concern not celebration. Simarly with lack of agricultural workers.
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There is a short term shortage of HGV drivers for domestic haulage due to a lot getting close to retirement, and the testing stations being out of action for about 18 months due to Covid, holding up the new applicants. Some have also had to self isolate.
I think you will find that the majority of european HGV drivers drive lorries with european telephone numbers on the side - hence why they seem to avoid paying their fines when they head back to the continent.

Some farmers are now reaping what they sowed - from paying minimum wage to exploit eastern european workers, deducting payments for accomodation that is very basic, packing them in together, and then expecting high output. Those type of farmers are now having to smell the java, which is no bad thing IMO.

My motto is that the most humane and generous employers, who also offer proper training, have the least problem recruiting and retaining labour.

The UK unemployment rate was 4.8% in July so the potential workers are out there, providing the training is.
 
GillsBluenose said:
There is a short term shortage of HGV drivers for domestic haulage due to a lot getting close to retirement, and the testing stations being out of action for about 18 months due to Covid, holding up the new applicants. Some have also had to self isolate.
I think you will find that the majority of european HGV drivers drive lorries with european telephone numbers on the side - hence why they seem to avoid paying their fines when they head back to the continent.

Some farmers are now reaping what they sowed - from paying minimum wage to exploit eastern european workers, deducting payments for accomodation that is very basic, packing them in together, and then expecting high output. Those type of farmers are now having to smell the java, which is no bad thing IMO.

My motto is that the most humane and generous employers, who also offer proper training, have the least problem recruiting and retaining labour.
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I agree with your last point

With your other points are you essentially saying we took back control of our borders to reduce the number of EU people working here without checking that the indigenous population would pick up the slack on the same conditions or ensuring we had sufficient suitably qualified people in the case of HGV drivers ?

Admittedly covid was a curve ball that could not have been foreseen
 
GillsBluenose said:
Errr...a little matter of...we do not have to abide by any EU law or "directive" and the ECJ no longer has any jurisdiction?
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what were the ones that were so unbearable to us ?

What have we been saved from? Why is my life better for it ?

I'm after specifics not generic statements
 
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