Brexit Day! | Page 112 | Vital Football

Brexit Day!

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Pope John XXIII said:
Dose of reality; £668b is peanuts across 27 countries. It amounts to about the annual income of the UK pre CV.

Germany is getting £28b. I'm sure that is handy, but would pay for about 25%-33% of our bailout scheme.

There is absolutely no question it would be better to have and I don't doubt that leaving the EU has cost us lives now and will cost more in the future through economic consequences.

But I am quite shocked at how low the EU bailout fund is across a population that size and 27 countries
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But Germany has its own money too?! It would be very handy to have 25-33pc of our government's bailout covered by the EU, no?
 
Old Red Fart said:
Whether they're called grants or loans they all have to be paid for eventually in some form or other.
Over here we've done well in one sense, only 102 deaths compared to over 4,000 in the UK, and I realise that there's a bit more to it than that. Our Govt has spent a small fortune trying successfully to keep us all sane, millions out of a job and on the dole with a heavy police presence on the streets, but it's worked. BUT it has been an expensive operation, worth it in my view, and now we have an official recession which will probably last for several years.
As an old fogie I'm still here, in the UK the result might have been different so I think our Govt has done well. Had Cummings tried the same trick here he would have been under Police guard.
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Might be a typo but you're out by a factor of ten.
Over 40,000 deaths here.
 
JC21 said:
Correct, look how the political right created and shaped the EU. It's sad to see people, who identify themselves with the left or even centre are pining for the Thatcher/Reagan/neoliberal construct.
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Much like the BBC debate, it is also criticised by the right for being full of socialists.

The truth is that it could be either. It represents the politics du jour of European voters expressing their views in the member nations with the smoothing effect that a collective brings.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Yes, as I said.

But I am surprised by how modest it is across so many countries. The US will end up spending about £2-3trillion I think I have read
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And the sum of European nations' spending will probably be far more than the US. Still don't really see the point. I wouldn't have expected the EU to cover all the costs of all it's member nations. That would be even more extraordinary. It probably couldn't anyway. This seems a pretty substantial package.
The point that the money has to come from somewhere is totally valid. This is either coming from a fund made by existing contributions and investments thereof, or it is borrowed. If so, from whom? The Chinese? (I guess that could be why they made the virus...)
 
This will hold till August when the German high courts will rule again. One of the biggest lenders is lending illegally according to last months ruling. Pushing the problem down the track. Will end in tears.
 
in_the_top_one said:
Much like the BBC debate, it is also criticised by the right for being full of socialists.

The truth is that it could be either. It represents the politics du jour of European voters expressing their views in the member nations with the smoothing effect that a collective brings.
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The thing with the BBC debate is in its news and current affairs programmes actual facts can be shown which I have done on many occasion

The other side is just anecdotes and blaming the other side of the very thing they are guilty of just to try and shut down the debate

Look at who they have just appointed as the new director general of the BBC ....they are not even trying to hide it anymore!

BBC news and current affairs is comparable to FOX News in the USA
 
Pope John XXIII said:
No it isn't; that is ridiculous hyperbole
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I know...how have you noticed that about me yet?

However they are pretty bad and don't even hide it anymore

They don't need to

Look at who is now in charge, could you get anymore Tory and money orientated?

This guy is just the Segway into the BBC becoming a commercial entity and is the bell sounding at the end of its life as it goes into full on propaganda mode
 
da fuq said:
I know...how have you noticed that about me yet?

However they are pretty bad and don't even hide it anymore

They don't need to

Look at who is now in charge, could you get anymore Tory and money orientated?

This guy is just the Segway into the BBC becoming a commercial entity and is the bell sounding at the end of its life as it goes into full on propaganda mode
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He is a former Tory candidate and has links to the party.

No doubt this is a BBC attempt to survive this government.

I would rather take 4-5 years of moderate Tory editorial bias than lose the BBC forever.

Ultimately it still has its Impartiality charter so it can't become a Fox
 
in_the_top_one said:
And the sum of European nations' spending will probably be far more than the US. Still don't really see the point. I wouldn't have expected the EU to cover all the costs of all it's member nations. That would be even more extraordinary. It probably couldn't anyway. This seems a pretty substantial package.
The point that the money has to come from somewhere is totally valid. This is either coming from a fund made by existing contributions and investments thereof, or it is borrowed. If so, from whom? The Chinese? (I guess that could be why they made the virus...)
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Taxes ... the countries that take from this pot have to implement taxes nd measures so in time the money is returned back. At the end of the day nothing in life is free... inflation will help minimize the value of the money borrowed. Malta have 1 billion at its disposal, if the government feels the need ... the big plus is that this is money with no or low interest... dont know of any other way how to stimulate an economy, unless you strike oil .. even though at todays prices its doubtful how much is worth it pumping it and storing it ...
 
Pope John XXIII said:
He is a former Tory candidate and has links to the party.

No doubt this is a BBC attempt to survive this government.

I would rather take 4-5 years of moderate Tory editorial bias than lose the BBC forever.

Ultimately it still has its Impartiality charter so it can't become a Fox
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This is the beginning of the end
 
in_the_top_one said:
Much like the BBC debate, it is also criticised by the right for being full of socialists.

The truth is that it could be either. It represents the politics du jour of European voters expressing their views in the member nations with the smoothing effect that a collective brings.
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As much as I could argue against this, I really don't have the energy to do so (Brexit debates are so boring). The right actually have a point but that is mainly down to the identity crisis that 'socialism' suffers from. The EU is actually an argument between the right-wing and liberals. But, for the sake of argument, I'm going to accept what you've said so hopefully now you will understand why I (and millions of others on the left-wing) have a problem with the EU. From an economical point of view the EU is very much capitalist/corporatist/neoliberal; this is very much against 'socialism'. I would love the world to be a 'democratic socialist' place, unfortunately that isn't going to happen any time soon. So my second preference is for the UK to be 'socialist' (not in the strictest definition of 'socialism' where the state owns all means of production, etc). Inside the EU, the UK is chained to the neoliberal rules and so, in order for the likes of me, to get what we desire we have to rely on the ECB, the IMF, the EU Commission and the majority of EU countries to turn 'socialist' hence it's better for a British socialist to be out of the EU in order to give 'socialism' a chance in the UK.

Having said that, it also depended/depends on having a 'socialist government in the UK, something that hasn't happened and is very unlikely to happen in the near future now Blair 2.0 is leader of Labour.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
He is a former Tory candidate and has links to the party.

No doubt this is a BBC attempt to survive this government.

I would rather take 4-5 years of moderate Tory editorial bias than lose the BBC forever.

Ultimately it still has its Impartiality charter so it can't become a Fox
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I honestly can't believe Calvin hasn't turned up and called you Da Fuq mk III yet..
 
MaltaRed said:
Depends on who recovers first ... EU countries or the UK ... on an equal measure, mainland Europe was hit badly by the virus as bad as the UK... so everyone will start from the same position. Its the collaboration between countries that will be the make or break on the road to recovery.... let's wait and see...
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Sadly malta, the rest of europe didnt fuck it up like we did and had a proper lockdown at the proper time for the proper duration. Many other european countries are already reopening safely because they have been more successful in reducing their r-rate
 
The inimitable Darren Grimes is really on form today.

Read his interpretation of how the evil left cheered evilly after evilly pulling a police officer of their horse.

Then watch the actual video he posts where the officer is seen very clearly being cleaned off his horse by a traffic light. No doubt an evil left wing traffic light.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1269330545974132736
 
JC21 said:
As much as I could argue against this, I really don't have the energy to do so (Brexit debates are so boring). The right actually have a point but that is mainly down to the identity crisis that 'socialism' suffers from. The EU is actually an argument between the right-wing and liberals. But, for the sake of argument, I'm going to accept what you've said so hopefully now you will understand why I (and millions of others on the left-wing) have a problem with the EU. From an economical point of view the EU is very much capitalist/corporatist/neoliberal; this is very much against 'socialism'. I would love the world to be a 'democratic socialist' place, unfortunately that isn't going to happen any time soon. So my second preference is for the UK to be 'socialist' (not in the strictest definition of 'socialism' where the state owns all means of production, etc). Inside the EU, the UK is chained to the neoliberal rules and so, in order for the likes of me, to get what we desire we have to rely on the ECB, the IMF, the EU Commission and the majority of EU countries to turn 'socialist' hence it's better for a British socialist to be out of the EU in order to give 'socialism' a chance in the UK.

Having said that, it also depended/depends on having a 'socialist government in the UK, something that hasn't happened and is very unlikely to happen in the near future now Blair 2.0 is leader of Labour.
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Doesn't make much sense. There are far more left governments calling shots in the EU than you're likely to get here in your lifetime.
 
i am a tree said:
I honestly can't believe Calvin hasn't turned up and called you Da Fuq mk III yet..
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Its probably because Pope has never called him an Antisemite after CP's antisemitic outburst to one of our Jewish posters
 
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