Brexit Day!

[Pope John XXIII]

What is your point about Ed Milliband ? If you read what I put, I didn't vote for him, so that stacks up. Didn't vote for Milliband, Corbyn and certainly won't vote for Starmer either.

Barry Gardiner has no cabinet job, so yet again a Labour MP can do what he wants? Dominic Cummings isn't an MP, never mind a cabinet member, so I guess that answers why he didn't resign . According to you an MP has to be imprisoned to lose his main job. An adviser has only to make "a mistake " (copyright Lisa Nandy). Why hasn't Starmer kicked Kinnock, Gardiner, Duffield and Tahir Ali out the Labour party ?

Same old, same old. You don't listen. Even to yourself.

Perhaps I misunderstood your reference to a centre party; I assumed you meant labour, when presumably you meant the lib Dems. So irrelevant has Joe Swinson left them that i forgot they existed.

You say Barry Gardiner "got away with it". If he has broken the law then he will have been spoken to by the police. I have explained to you in detail why MPs don't just resign as an MP; labour have absolutely no power to compel any MP to resign their seat, and you may want to reflect on the utter stupidity of an unnecessary bye election during a global pandemic, just because a bloke stood with some other blokes.

Mr Cummings is a different matter, because he was instrumental in creating the rules and then went and broke them. Not just once, but in three different ways, over the course of more than two weeks, he lied about it and refused to even apologise. There is little doubt his actions have led to a reduced adherence to the rules.

Moreover, I have also explained to you how the role of a SPAD in terms of resignation bears no resemblance to the role of an MP, especially one in the shadow Cabinet. The only labour front bencher to break the rules has resigned from the front bench. Political convention is that SPADs resign when they become the story

Perhaps you would like to enlighten us as to why you personally feel the need to defend this man?

 

[Pearced]

Perhaps you would like to enlighten us as to why you personally feel the need to defend this man?

I know this one! Because they are both Tory to the core, irrespective of reality.

 

[Strett]

Same old, same old. You don't listen. Even to yourself.

Perhaps I misunderstood your reference to a centre party; I assumed you meant labour, when presumably you meant the lib Dems. So irrelevant has Joe Swinson left them that i forgot they existed.

You say Barry Gardiner "got away with it". If he has broken the law then he will have been spoken to by the police. I have explained to you in detail why MPs don't just resign as an MP; labour have absolutely no power to compel any MP to resign their seat, and you may want to reflect on the utter stupidity of an unnecessary bye election during a global pandemic, just because a bloke stood with some other blokes.

Mr Cummings is a different matter, because he was instrumental in creating the rules and then went and broke them. Not just once, but in three different ways, over the course of more than two weeks, he lied about it and refused to even apologise. There is little doubt his actions have led to a reduced adherence to the rules.

Moreover, I have also explained to you how the role of a SPAD in terms of resignation bears no resemblance to the role of an MP, especially one in the shadow Cabinet. The only labour front bencher to break the rules has resigned from the front bench. Political convention is that SPADs resign when they become the story

Perhaps you would like to enlighten us as to why you personally feel the need to defend this man?

I know this wasn't asked of me, but I personally wouldn't try. He has something that the current PM needs (There's much to add to that list!) but the established press disliked him for his Brexit shenanigans so he was walking a wafer thin line anyway. To break the rules demonstrates an arrogance that is leaning towards the dangerous.
The press, rightly so have pounced. Indefensible and daft sum up his actions.

 

[Lienking]

Same old, same old. You don't listen. Even to yourself.

Perhaps I misunderstood your reference to a centre party; I assumed you meant labour, when presumably you meant the lib Dems. So irrelevant has Joe Swinson left them that i forgot they existed.

You say Barry Gardiner "got away with it". If he has broken the law then he will have been spoken to by the police. I have explained to you in detail why MPs don't just resign as an MP; labour have absolutely no power to compel any MP to resign their seat, and you may want to reflect on the utter stupidity of an unnecessary bye election during a global pandemic, just because a bloke stood with some other blokes.

Mr Cummings is a different matter, because he was instrumental in creating the rules and then went and broke them. Not just once, but in three different ways, over the course of more than two weeks, he lied about it and refused to even apologise. There is little doubt his actions have led to a reduced adherence to the rules.

Moreover, I have also explained to you how the role of a SPAD in terms of resignation bears no resemblance to the role of an MP, especially one in the shadow Cabinet. The only labour front bencher to break the rules has resigned from the front bench. Political convention is that SPADs resign when they become the story

Perhaps you would like to enlighten us as to why you personally feel the need to defend this man?

Not defending him, but if he loses his job, all the others should too. Rather ironic that MPs "by convention" operate to lower standards than their advisers. When I say a centre party, I don't particularly mean anyone. Tony Blair learnt how to fill it. The Liberals could have filled it. There is currently a big void in the middle.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Not defending him, but if he loses his job, all the others should too. Rather ironic that MPs "by convention" operate to lower standards than their advisers. When I say a centre party, I don't particularly mean anyone. Tony Blair learnt how to fill it. The Liberals could have filled it. There is currently a big void in the middle.

You are still being willfully ignorant of the difference between an elected MP and someone who has an unelected political job, elected or not.

It's not even just about convention. Can you imagine having have a bye election every time an MP made the slightest transgression?

People resign from political jobs if they screw up. If they are elected, they stay for their term unless they cannot serve it. It's not hard stuff.

And your entire argument falls apart considering that Cummings neither resigned, nor deigned to even accept responsibility or apologise.

And yes, you are defending him

 

[Feco]

Not defending him, but if he loses his job, all the others should too. Rather ironic that MPs "by convention" operate to lower standards than their advisers. When I say a centre party, I don't particularly mean anyone. Tony Blair learnt how to fill it. The Liberals could have filled it. There is currently a big void in the middle.

Robert Jenrick?

 

[radfordinlondon]

Loss of jobs?
I'm sorry, but that is clearly a lie. The jobs market was fantastic.

"The UK unemployment rate stood at 3.8 percent in the three months to December 2019, the lowest level since early 1975 and in line with market expectations. The number of people out of work declined by 73,000 to 1.29 million while the number of employed people rose by 336,000 to a record high of 32.993 million"

Yawn

 

[radfordinlondon]

Just to be clear. The Tories extended school leaving from 16 to 18 so they could take tens of thousands off unemployment figures?

Lets not forget the huge success in the growth of self employed and a dozen other methods. What annoys me most is that the economic damage will all be blamed on covid now.

 

[radfordinlondon]

Or to word it in a non-partisan way, to prevent 16 year old school leavers with low academic qualifications being left to rot in a society that cares little for them.
Leaving at that age only if you have a job/apprenticeship seems very sensible for many reasons.

Tory policy has done fuck all for social mobility or levels of inequality, indeed we are going backwards. The major concern was to get them off the figures. Just as zero hour contracts are considered jobs. All part of the post truth, just lie bojo show.

Of course to demonstrate that it is not just about figures, the govt could look at appropriate levels of high quality vocational training like germany but that would require investment and management.

 

[MaltaRed]

Lets not forget the huge success in the growth of self employed and a dozen other methods. What annoys me most is that the economic damage will all be blamed on covid now.

Depends on who recovers first ... EU countries or the UK ... on an equal measure, mainland Europe was hit badly by the virus as bad as the UK... so everyone will start from the same position. Its the collaboration between countries that will be the make or break on the road to recovery.... let's wait and see...

 

[Old Red Fart]

Depends on who recovers first ... EU countries or the UK ... on an equal measure, mainland Europe was hit badly by the virus as bad as the UK... so everyone will start from the same position. Its the collaboration between countries that will be the make or break on the road to recovery.... let's wait and see...

Oz was going downhill before the virus arrived and our Govt confirmed recession officially yesterday. It's going to be a long job for us with a lot of folk out of work for quite a while, first time for many years. I believe the rest of the world is in a similar position, maybe not quite as bad for some countries. In spite of Brexit I think you're better placed than some.

 

[da fuq]

Oz was going downhill before the virus arrived and our Govt confirmed recession officially yesterday. It's going to be a long job for us with a lot of folk out of work for quite a while, first time for many years. I believe the rest of the world is in a similar position, maybe not quite as bad for some countries. In spite of Brexit I think you're better placed than some.

Not better placed than the EU countries who are giving mainly Billions in Grants, not loans, Grant's to bussiness so that the EU can recover from the effects of Covid

All those small business in our country who are going out of bussines would have been given money to stabilise

Not now

That is directly going to affect millions of people


https://ec.europa.eu/regional_polic...pplication-guidelines-for-covid-19-assistance

https://ec.europa.eu/info/funding-tenders/opportunities/portal/screen/covid-19


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eu...nveil-trillion-euro-coronavirus-recovery-plan

When will these thick quitlings get it into their fucking heads they are destroying this country

I'll ask again why do they hate Britain so much

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Dose of reality; £668b is peanuts across 27 countries. It amounts to about the annual income of the UK pre CV.

Germany is getting £28b. I'm sure that is handy, but would pay for about 25%-33% of our bailout scheme.

There is absolutely no question it would be better to have and I don't doubt that leaving the EU has cost us lives now and will cost more in the future through economic consequences.

But I am quite shocked at how low the EU bailout fund is across a population that size and 27 countries

 

[ZedRed]

Not better placed than the EU countries who are giving mainly Billions in Grants, not loans, Grant's to bussiness so that the EU can recover from the effects of Covid

All those small business in our country who are going out of bussines would have been given money to stabilise

Not now

That is directly going to affect millions of people


https://ec.europa.eu/regional_polic...pplication-guidelines-for-covid-19-assistance

https://ec.europa.eu/info/funding-tenders/opportunities/portal/screen/covid-19


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eu...nveil-trillion-euro-coronavirus-recovery-plan

When will these thick quitlings get it into their fucking heads they are destroying this country

I'll ask again why do they hate Britain so much

Why would we want small businesses to succeed?

The more small businesses that go to the wall, the more space that leaves for the big boys and we all know that the big boys and the politicians 'scratch each others backs.'

 

[JC21]

Not better placed than the EU countries who are giving mainly Billions in Grants, not loans, Grant's to bussiness so that the EU can recover from the effects of Covid

All those small business in our country who are going out of bussines would have been given money to stabilise

Not now

That is directly going to affect millions of people


https://ec.europa.eu/regional_polic...pplication-guidelines-for-covid-19-assistance

https://ec.europa.eu/info/funding-tenders/opportunities/portal/screen/covid-19


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eu...nveil-trillion-euro-coronavirus-recovery-plan

When will these thick quitlings get it into their fucking heads they are destroying this country

I'll ask again why do they hate Britain so much

So the EU is BORROWING money and giving it to member states. This money will have to be paid back out of the EU budget.

How is that different to what the UK can do? Except that the UK would probably have ended up being a net contributor to recovery fund (just as it is in the normal functioning of the EU)

 

[Old Red Fart]

Whether they're called grants or loans they all have to be paid for eventually in some form or other.
Over here we've done well in one sense, only 102 deaths compared to over 4,000 in the UK, and I realise that there's a bit more to it than that. Our Govt has spent a small fortune trying successfully to keep us all sane, millions out of a job and on the dole with a heavy police presence on the streets, but it's worked. BUT it has been an expensive operation, worth it in my view, and now we have an official recession which will probably last for several years.
As an old fogie I'm still here, in the UK the result might have been different so I think our Govt has done well. Had Cummings tried the same trick here he would have been under Police guard.

 

[da fuq]

Dose of reality; £668b is peanuts across 27 countries. It amounts to about the annual income of the UK pre CV.

Germany is getting £28b. I'm sure that is handy, but would pay for about 25%-33% of our bailout scheme.

There is absolutely no question it would be better to have and I don't doubt that leaving the EU has cost us lives now and will cost more in the future through economic consequences.

But I am quite shocked at how low the EU bailout fund is across a population that size and 27 countries

It is low and this is the initial response it can change and be flexible

We would be getting the most in this instance I believe as we are the country that has been hit the most so we would be getting a figure closer to Italy and Spain

We all know that the next few years are going to be very uncomfortable economically and when and if a "2nd wave hits" there will be a recallobration

The world has changed and will not be going back to what we had before straight away....it may take a while and going on your own was never a good idea but now it is just downright fucking mental

 

[Pope John XXIII]

It is low and this is the initial response it can change and be flexible

We would be getting the most in this instance I believe as we are the country that has been hit the most so we would be getting a figure closer to Italy and Spain

We all know that the next few years are going to be very uncomfortable economically and when and if a "2nd wave hits" there will be a recallobration

The world has changed and will not be going back to what we had before straight away....it may take a while and going on your own was never a good idea but now it is just downright fucking mental

Unfortunately that is a position for a future, more forward thinking, more open minded and educated generation.

We lost the EU fight because the other side identified it as a culture war and wanted it more.

I would rather have Brexit than the kind of far right Britain they would force to happen if their culture war monster wasn't fed.

When the boomers are all gone and the Xers are too old to matter; when the Millennials and Zers are in charge, maybe that will be a legitimate position.

I genuinely fear what the angry Brexiteers will unite behind now in their tantrums if they don't get the most extreme version of what they want.

They may not be a majority, but you can say one thing of the political right; they have the ability to unite in a way the political left never, ever will manage.

 

[JC21]

Unfortunately that is a position for a future, more forward thinking, more open minded and educated generation.



They may not be a majority, but you can say one thing of the political right; they have the ability to unite in a way the political left never, ever will manage.

Correct, look how the political right created and shaped the EU. It's sad to see people, who identify themselves with the left or even centre are pining for the Thatcher/Reagan/neoliberal construct.

 

[Polly 433]

Correct, look how the political right created and shaped the EU. It's sad to see people, who identify themselves with the left or even centre are pining for the Thatcher/Reagan/neoliberal construct.

The EU response to the banking crisis showed an invaluable ability to turn itself in to an neoliberal citadel.