Brentcelona vs forest sponsored by mitigating circumstances | Page 26 | Vital Football

Brentcelona vs forest sponsored by mitigating circumstances

Basha73 said:
They do but it’s made much easier when commentators and pundits condone it.
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Come on - all players steal yards from free kicks, throw ins etc.

GKs try to intimidate penalty takers, penalty taker instructions written on a water bottle, timewasting, feigning injury, winding up players, accidental late challenges ....

Forwards (& Ryan Yates) go down faster than a cheap hooker.

Crosby hiding behind Dibble & heading the ball from his hand.

It used to be called gamesmanship and I have always tried to push the boundaries as far as I could. I doubt anyone else who's played will say differently.

Look, whilst I do genuinely hate Toney and I do believe he cheated and it should have been noticed by the officials, but our players also need to take responsibility and the GK is the one that has to take charge of that - it's his job, to make sure his wall is in the right position and Toney could not take that kick until the ref lets him.
 
the jock said:
darren bent on turner

He told TalkSPORT: “I saw Matt Turner last season for Arsenal and he was awful.

“We’ve seen it before at Forest this season when Turner is trying to play out from the back with his feet, he’s been caught a few times.

“I blame the goalkeeper in that instance. Everyone could see what was going to happen, I blame the Forest players.”
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CHO - if anyone can explain what he was doing & why he was there, please do.

I keep saying this but Turner is responsible for lining up the wall and Yates told him to check and demonstrated why - Toney was always going to shoot (his body shape and line up made it obvious) - put CHO at the end of that wall, nigh on impossible to bend it that much in just over 18 yards.
 
Our Kids Dad said:
Sorry - wall lined up incorrectly - obvious, where that was going - even before Toney moved the ball.

The wall is not lined up with post & ball & end man in a straight line, essentially the end player of the wall should be aligned such that the ball is almost visible between the last 2 players in the wall.

All Turner had to do was stay on his post OR when questioned by Yates get CHO to join end of wall - gap was massive and at 50+ as a right footer in that position, I would have fancied my chances of scoring against Turner - there was no way he was making up that distance.
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Was there a camera angle behind the players?

I thought it was at 45 degrees...maybe am wrong, but if the camera is oblique to the players, how do we know that the wall (before Toney cheated, cos it definitely wasnt after he moved the ball a foot or so) wasnt lined up Yates 3rd leg to Turner' left hand post?
 
Our Kids Dad said:
Disappointing, but these are aspects you can teach/coach and Nuno as an ex-GK should be able to help.

Turner clearly has ability, but lapses in concentration and his ability with the ball at his feet are glaring weaknesses.
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No. He's fucking dogshit and he needs to fuck off with an immediate effect.
 
Our Kids Dad said:
Come on - all players steal yards from free kicks, throw ins etc.

GKs try to intimidate penalty takers, penalty taker instructions written on a water bottle, timewasting, feigning injury, winding up players, accidental late challenges ....

Forwards (& Ryan Yates) go down faster than a cheap hooker.

Crosby hiding behind Dibble & heading the ball from his hand.

It used to be called gamesmanship and I have always tried to push the boundaries as far as I could. I doubt anyone else who's played will say differently.

Look, whilst I do genuinely hate Toney and I do believe he cheated and it should have been noticed by the officials, but our players also need to take responsibility and the GK is the one that has to take charge of that - it's his job, to make sure his wall is in the right position and Toney could not take that kick until the ref lets him.
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But that’s all part of the problem. It’s encouraged and applauded; called ‘clever play’. The reality though is that it’s all cheating.

When I played I was exactly the same but I was never under any illusion that what I was doing was right.

I don’t have any issue with blaming our own players for their part - Turner, Yates and CHO should all have done a lot better. But Toney actually changed the line. Any argument he could make falls down on that point. It was beyond stealing a yard, he deliberately changed that line.
 
BlackGold said:
Was there a camera angle behind the players?

I thought it was at 45 degrees...maybe am wrong, but if the camera is oblique to the players, how do we know that the wall (before Toney cheated, cos it definitely wasnt after he moved the ball a foot or so) wasnt lined up Yates 3rd leg to Turner' left hand post?
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Doubt it (not seen one), the angle/view has to be from the post to the ball - Turner's line of sight.

That's the point - had he stayed on his post, Turner would have re-aligned the wall correctly, even after Toney had moved the ball AND the ref would have then been in position.

Annoyingly, none of our players saw him move the foam & if they did none went to the ref, but again - Yates told Turner to check.
 
Basha73 said:
But that’s all part of the problem. It’s encouraged and applauded; called ‘clever play’. The reality though is that it’s all cheating.

When I played I was exactly the same but I was never under any illusion that what I was doing was right.

I don’t have any issue with blaming our own players for their part - Turner, Yates and CHO should all have done a lot better. But Toney actually changed the line. Any argument he could make falls down on that point. It was beyond stealing a yard, he deliberately changed that line.
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It's not encouraged or applauded, it just happens (it does in most sports, it does when you drive on the motorway etc).

It is largely accepted unless someone points it out.... I was always in the Ref's ear, as most players are.

I do Agree - Toney moved the ball, then the foam and then the ball.... cheating, but none of our players were alert enough to see it.

Brentford fans highlighting our wall had encroached & that we have cheated with regard to FFP, glass houses & all that.

I hope Brentford & Toney get their comeuppance but nothing will detract me from Turner's culpability.
 
Our Kids Dad said:
Doubt it (not seen one), the angle/view has to be from the post to the ball - Turner's line of sight.

That's the point - had he stayed on his post, Turner would have re-aligned the wall correctly, even after Toney had moved the ball AND the ref would have then been in position.

Annoyingly, none of our players saw him move the foam & if they did none went to the ref, but again - Yates told Turner to check.
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Yates told Turner to check, which he did, THEN Toney moved the ball.
Why can't you see that if Yates stood still or jumped straight up the ball WOULD NOT have gone in.....

Just to clarify I think we need better than Turner but this goal is not his responsibility alone.
 
Our Kids Dad said:
It's not encouraged or applauded, it just happens (it does in most sports, it does when you drive on the motorway etc).

It is largely accepted unless someone points it out.... I was always in the Ref's ear, as most players are.

I do Agree - Toney moved the ball, then the foam and then the ball.... cheating, but none of our players were alert enough to see it.

Brentford fans highlighting our wall had encroached & that we have cheated with regard to FFP, glass houses & all that.

I hope Brentford & Toney get their comeuppance but nothing will detract me from Turner's culpability.
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I have no problem with the fact that Turner and, to a lesser extent, Yates and CHO were culpable. They have to do better and be smarter.

I just have no faith that Brentford and especially Toney will get what they deserve.
 
Our Kids Dad said:
Every player cheats!
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Every player attempts to cheat, and sometimes they get away with it.

The onus is on the officials, with their technology, to stop the cheating, and to punish the individuals concerned.

The onus was also on our bloody defenders to pick up on the cheating and bring it to the referees attention.

Someone should have left the wall to point out what had happened, but no one did.

The reason they did not pick up on the incident was because they were half asleep; exactly the same reason why we keep shipping stupid, unnecessary goals.

We lack leadership again, someone who will get in the players faces and remind them what they are supposed to be doing.

That's the big worry for me.
 
mao tse tung said:
Every player attempts to cheat, and sometimes they get away with it.

The onus is on the officials, with their technology, to stop the cheating, and to punish the individuals concerned.

The onus was also on our bloody defenders to pick up on the cheating and bring it to the referees attention.

Someone should have left the wall to point out what had happened, but no one did.

The reason they did not pick up on the incident was because they were half asleep; exactly the same reason why we keep shipping stupid, unnecessary goals.

We lack leadership again, someone who will get in the players faces and remind them what they are supposed to be doing.

That's the big worry for me.
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We do have that but they were all injured or at afcon.
 
Our Kids Dad said:
Come on - all players steal yards from free kicks, throw ins etc.

GKs try to intimidate penalty takers, penalty taker instructions written on a water bottle, timewasting, feigning injury, winding up players, accidental late challenges ....

Forwards (& Ryan Yates) go down faster than a cheap hooker.

Crosby hiding behind Dibble & heading the ball from his hand.

It used to be called gamesmanship and I have always tried to push the boundaries as far as I could. I doubt anyone else who's played will say differently.

Look, whilst I do genuinely hate Toney and I do believe he cheated and it should have been noticed by the officials, but our players also need to take responsibility and the GK is the one that has to take charge of that - it's his job, to make sure his wall is in the right position and Toney could not take that kick until the ref lets him.
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I must have been the only **** then who didn't. Cloughie wouldn't have it either. The rules already allow for innovation with set pieces. That wasn't innovation.
as they have sought to do with diving, they should always try to crack down on that type of shit imo

We do need to own our own part in tho (ingy can you give me triple word score on the word palindrome and triple O whacksheets).
 
In cricket the Ozzies were caught cheating ball tampering and some were banned and some even cried on TV. They'll think twice about cheating again.

Yes sure someone on the pitch should have spotted it, but this is akin to saying people who get conned of their life savings or part of them should have spotted the conman. Maybe. Very often the honest and innocent get conned. Blaming our players is easy to do but quite frankly moving the foam was egregious. It went a step beyond the "norm" of trying to steal a few yards or moving to the side (which is still wrong. It was an attempt to cover up the cheating and an attempt to convince others that their assessment of the position of the wall initially still stood
 
Our Kids Dad said:
I'm quite opinionated and found that sometimes my own posts would inflame a situation, so tend to just watch/read.

In this scenario (& I'm not sticking up for Toney he cheated) ... first movement of ball = fine (I've always done that), it's the moving of the foam & then the ball.

I've not only played, but coached a lot too and you tell the keeper that he has to be happy with his wall, as I've kept saying - had Turner stayed on his post until ref turned around after marking out the wall, he would have seen the movement of the ball and placed the wall accordingly.

It's even more galling, that Yates questioned him and showed him what Toney would do.... CHO's position?

Sorry, Turner is the main one to blame.
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not sure how you get Yates telling him what Toney would do? seemed like he was telling him to check the other side of the wall to me ( unless you are seeing a different camera angle to the ones i have seen?)
 
Our Kids Dad said:
Come on - all players steal yards from free kicks, throw ins etc.

GKs try to intimidate penalty takers, penalty taker instructions written on a water bottle, timewasting, feigning injury, winding up players, accidental late challenges ....

Forwards (& Ryan Yates) go down faster than a cheap hooker.

Crosby hiding behind Dibble & heading the ball from his hand.

It used to be called gamesmanship and I have always tried to push the boundaries as far as I could. I doubt anyone else who's played will say differently.

Look, whilst I do genuinely hate Toney and I do believe he cheated and it should have been noticed by the officials, but our players also need to take responsibility and the GK is the one that has to take charge of that - it's his job, to make sure his wall is in the right position and Toney could not take that kick until the ref lets him.
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I agree but as i player I would also be shouting out ‘watch this chap moving the ball!’ and a direct free kick is a bit of a difference from a throw in no matter how much ground gets stolen.

it’s clear that no one shouted out what he was doing so the ref, our captain nor the keeper knew it was happening. I don’t see why VAR can’t get it re-taken in that situation though?
 
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