Bad news for Buddha & travellers in general

[timnolongerinbrisban]

Luckily for us, Instow is a bit off the radar although we have a stunning beach and fantastic views.
It does get busy as you’d expect but nothing like Saunton, Woolacombe and Croyde.
Woolacombe last week was again in total gridlock.
We moved to Croyde first but found it took busy in summer and too quiet in winter.
Instow is about right for us.
The major downside is a bit remote for travel.
It’s about 50 minutes just to get to the motorway and of course no decent football.
Fortunately for me, Cheltenham got promoted so that’s one for me.
I have a cousin who lives there and works at GCHQ after leaving military intelligence.
Haven’t seen him for some years so will be great to catch up and chat.

Instow has a lovely seafood restaurant/cafe that we went to twice when we were there a couple of years ago.

 

[valenciagill]

In other words, claiming that Muslims are exceptionally backward and attributing this to Islam is tantamount to racism and Islamophobia

An interesting statement , until you introduce Islam's attitude to homosexuality and equality for women.
Hardly progressive in 2021

 

[Jerryattrick]

An interesting statement , until you introduce Islam's attitude to homosexuality and equality for women.
Hardly progressive in 2021

Interesting though that Islam (the religion) itself had historically always had the most rights for women.
Nobody seems to want to look at other religions with equally backward behaviour e.g. women not being allowed into certain Hindu temples and jewish women not being allowed to pray alongside men (did trump not turn a blind eye to it at the wall in Jerusalem).

 

[valenciagill]

Interesting though that Islam (the religion) itself had historically always had the most rights for women.
Nobody seems to want to look at other religions with equally backward behaviour e.g. women not being allowed into certain Hindu temples and jewish women not being allowed to pray alongside men (did trump not turn a blind eye to it at the wall in Jerusalem).

Agreed Jerry , maybe other communities are 1, not so numerous and 2, not so bullying or threatening.

 

[ThreeSixes]

Interesting though that Islam (the religion) itself had historically always had the most rights for women.
Nobody seems to want to look at other religions with equally backward behaviour e.g. women not being allowed into certain Hindu temples and jewish women not being allowed to pray alongside men (did trump not turn a blind eye to it at the wall in Jerusalem).

The focus should be on ending ALL misogyny and homophobia (at least in this country) whether religion based or not, and not deflecting it with "waddabout" arguments

 

[Buddha]

An interesting statement , until you introduce Islam's attitude to homosexuality and equality for women.
Hardly progressive in 2021

What is more interesting than that is your decision to quote the final sentence but omit the preceding two. When read in context the line you have quoted makes more sense.

Indeed, this should be fairly obvious given that the sentence you quote begins, "in other words...."

 

[valenciagill]

What is more interesting than that is your decision to quote the final sentence but omit the preceding two. When read in context the line you have quoted makes more sense.

Indeed, this should be fairly obvious given that the sentence you quote begins, "in other words...."

Fair enough , I didn't mean to offend you by only part-quoting words that weren't even yours !
What do you think of the point I made ?

 

[Tarian]

Copied from elsewhere because I just can't be bothered:

Is Islam not a race? Other commentators have already characterised Dawkins’s stand as casuistry and taken him to task for it. For example, Nesrine Malik of The Guardian admits that technically Islam is not a race but points out that there is a ‘strong racial dimension to Islamophobia’ – Muslims in the UK are mostly African, Asian or Arab. Many suffer hate incidents or discrimination because of their intersecting racial and religious characteristics.
So, Malik tells Dawkins, saying that Islam is not a race is a ‘cop out’, because although ‘Islam might not be a race…using that as a fig leaf for your unthinking prejudice is almost certainly racist’. Tom Chivers, who blogs for The Telegraph, says Dawkins often goes from ‘criticising the religion itself to criticising Muslims, as a vast bloc’, and is thus ‘failing as a scientist’. For example, Chivers argues, when Dawkins points out that the Muslim world has not produced very many Nobel laureates, he implies that this is ‘because they’re stupid, or brainwashed into zombiehood by their religion’.
Surely, argues Chivers, a scientist should also examine other institutional or non-institutional dimensions on the lack of progress in Muslim societies, such as poverty and the scarcity of other resources?
In other words, claiming that Muslims are exceptionally backward and attributing this to Islam is tantamount to racism and Islamophobia

It doesn't matter how much the Guardian ( or you ) twists and turns - Islam is not a "race" - it is an ideology or belief.

You spend much of your time denigrating "capitalism", "free-markets" "conservatism" etc - and I think I'm right in saying that you are an atheist.

So why if other beliefs / philosophies / world views can be challenged why should Islam be exempt ?

Just tacking on "-phobia" doesn't say much - other than this is the standard leftie / Guardian tactic to shut down dissenters by "othering".

I don't know who has "claimed Mislims are exceptionally backward"e....
....but if certain beliefs are expressed (e.g. about women)....
or practices dictated such as clothing and diet....
- and such a beliefs or practices are challenged.....
How is that "racist" or "-phobic" ?

Instead of shutting down legitimate debate, why not make the case that such beliefs and practices are not "backward" ?

 

[Tarian]

The racist, ignorant and bigoted ones. Usually concerning people who come from different communities; communities which you don't understand and appear to be fearful of.

Apart from the views expressed by you - such as "fucking Tories" - please cite some "racist", "ignorant" and "bigoted" ones on this forum.

 

[Tarian]

Talking of PR, it appears that eight different parties are trying to form a coalition government in Israel.
What can possibly go wrong.
My bet is that they will fall out before any government is formed.
It’s like having Johnson, Corbyn, Sturgeon, Lucas and Farrage in the same government.
The only thing that they have in common is a hatred of the incumbent.

Sorry Shotshy, but AV is not PR.

 

[Jerryattrick]

Apart from the views expressed by you - such as "fucking Tories" - please cite some "racist", "ignorant" and "bigoted" ones on this forum.

You are becoming a snowflake now lol.

 

[Jerryattrick]

The focus should be on ending ALL misogyny and homophobia (at least in this country) whether religion based or not, and not deflecting it with "waddabout" arguments

I think that was my exact point.
If people believe that people should be treated equally then all those bad instances should be called out.

This stupid whaddaboutery argument is strange, without it you surely cannot use an analogy or point out hypocrisy.

If someone never (and i mean never) calls out any instances of bad behaviour except where the perpetrator is their hated enemy (in this case muslims) then surely the person should question their motives.

I have always realised that i am a racist and hypocrite but at least in my defence i hate everyone equally lol.

 

[jokerman]

There is nothing intrinsically good or bad about organized religions. They are the creation of human beings and can be neither worse nor better than their creators. Religions have been at the heart of some of the most repressive episodes in human history and some of the most progressive. People, being what they are, have gone from best to worst and back again the name of religion. I don’t like the whatabouterry criticism, but I do think it possible to say that at different times and places, one or other religion is a bigger headache/help than the others. If we can make arguments about nationalism, imperialism, communism, and anarchism as threats to human happiness, then I think we can at least entertain similar arguments about Islam, feminism and vegetarians. Nothing is off limits as beyond criticism.

 

[ThreeSixes]

If someone never (and i mean never) calls out any instances of bad behaviour except where the perpetrator is their hated enemy (in this case muslims) then surely the person should question their motives.

I have always realised that i am a racist and hypocrite but at least in my defence i hate everyone equally lol.

*TRIGGER WARNING - PLEASE DO NOT READ THE FOLLOWING POST IF YOU FEEL THAT YOU MAY BE OFFENDED*

I hope the "hated enemy" comment isn't leveled at me? I don't hate or dislike Muslims. I know a lot, some of which are friend of mine. It's the religion that I dislike. The religion that says that you can do what you like with a non believer. This is why 20+ just-happen-to-be's adult men will have sex with a 14 year old girl. They are not paedophiles or believe that they are doing something wrong. It is a different culture, and life is very different for women in the jhtb countries that they are from. The people responsible for the fate of the girls and young women that were abused in these northern towns on an industrial scale weren't the jhtb "taxi drivers", it is the people that turned a blind eye to what was happening and/or have allowed an intolerant, racist and abusive religion to grow in the UK (other religions can also be intolerant, racist and abusive)

The only motive I have is protection of women and girls. Things I see personally, and things that I read about that I'm not happy with. I'm not personally affected though, neither are you or the other posters on the board.

I have said before and I do mean it. I will call out similar issues from other religions or races if they occur.

 

[jogills]

I read your argument ThreeSixes but I think it was grimmer than that. Those girls in Northern towns, like many, many others abused by different men, were available and unvalued. It didn't need a religion to cause their pain just opportunity and the darker side of male sexuality.

 

[Trev_GFC]

I’ve always felt religion is the passing of values through allegory. While not religious myself I feel some people could do with some values, whether they believe in the actual presence of Gods or not.

Unfortunately, as with politics, some dickheads will twist the meaning of religion so it suits their narrative. Muslim is the most notable one where 1 billion Muslims follow the most sensible understanding of the Torah, whereas some brainwashing dicks will take very small parts of the Torah very differently.

We live in a time where people will bomb or stab people based on the colour of the bandana they wear, or because they want their country to be independent from a non-offensive democratic nation. Yet religion often gets painted as doing nothing good other than causing wars.

 

[shotshy]

I read your argument ThreeSixes but I think it was grimmer than that. Those girls in Northern towns, like many, many others abused by different men, were available and unvalued. It didn't need a religion to cause their pain just opportunity and the darker side of male sexuality.

I think what shocked most rational people was how oganised it was and how the authorities who were employed to protect such girls ignored what was under their nose.
There have since been dozens of convictions of organised abuse by that section of that community.
It’s widely accepted that abuse of young girls happens. In these cases, it was the systematic organisation that shocked, and still continues to do so.

 

[valenciagill]

I think what shocked most rational people was how oganised it was and how the authorities who were employed to protect such girls ignored what was under their nose.
There have since been dozens of convictions of organised abuse by that section of that community.
It’s widely accepted that abuse of young girls happens. In these cases, it was the systematic organisation that shocked, and still continues to do so.

The offences have been detected in towns , yet there is never any mention of what is happening in Birmingham or London.
The Government has chosen to play down this phenomenon, most of us can see that.
Whether this increases or decreases peoples fears is debatable.

 

[Buddha]

I think what shocked most rational people was how oganised it was and how the authorities who were employed to protect such girls ignored what was under their nose.
There have since been dozens of convictions of organised abuse by that section of that community.
It’s widely accepted that abuse of young girls happens. In these cases, it was the systematic organisation that shocked, and still continues to do so.

The organisation of it was indeed shocking and sickening. It's very similar in many ways to the systematic organisation of child abuse involving the Catholic church and young boys.

Someone somewhere on here or maybe a different thread called me an atheist. I am most certainly NOT an atheist.

However, by the same token I believe this works would be a better place if there were no gods and no masters.

I am against organised religion. I believe it is stupid, sexist and bigoted bullshit.

That said I have no problem with individuals having faith and following a religion just so long as their doing so doesn't cause harm to others. Many people who follow a religion are guilty of causing harm as a result of their religion. But a great many more religions people (of all faiths) are beautiful people whose hearts are full of love and peace.

 

[shotshy]

The organisation of it was indeed shocking and sickening. It's very similar in many ways to the systematic organisation of child abuse involving the Catholic church and young boys.

Someone somewhere on here or maybe a different thread called me an atheist. I am most certainly NOT an atheist.

However, by the same token I believe this works would be a better place if there were no gods and no masters.

I am against organised religion. I believe it is stupid, sexist and bigoted bullshit.

That said I have no problem with individuals having faith and following a religion just so long as their doing so doesn't cause harm to others. Many people who follow a religion are guilty of causing harm as a result of their religion. But a great many more religions people (of all faiths) are beautiful people whose hearts are full of love and peace.

Spot on, but no real need for the whataboutery.
The deeds of some in the western churches are much publicised.
Ireland being the prime example.
Much of this is historical while the organised abuse of young girls by men of Pakistani origin is current.