Ukraine Situation | Page 56 | Vital Football

Ukraine Situation

jokerman said:
Russia will have to snap first before it capitulates, and it would seem to be a way off that, yet. Putin’s bet is we tire before Russia snaps. Unlikely, but I understand him making it.
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The point really is that even if the West withdrew support, there is still no way that Russia could take over Ukraine, which, if you remember, was the original intention.
That’s why they attacked Kiev initially.
The best that Russia can now hope for it to retain what it had before February which makes that embarrassing.
Their reputation as a world military force is shattered.
Also, the point that more young men have left the country than have been mobilised is another set back.
 
shotshy said:
The point really is that even if the West withdrew support, there is still no way that Russia could take over Ukraine, which, if you remember, was the original intention.
That’s why they attacked Kiev initially.
The best that Russia can now hope for it to retain what it had before February which makes that embarrassing.
Their reputation as a world military force is shattered.
Also, the point that more young men have left the country than have been mobilised is another set back.
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I think they would prefer a frozen dispute to that. They can make life miserable for Ukraine. I can’t see a formal agreement that is acceptable to anyone yet, although we all can see that formal recognition of the position at the start of the war -Crimea and peoples republics to Russia, is the salient, if unjust, solution.
 
Breckland said:
"I can understand admiration for a strong man that gets things done' Your words not mine and quite unequivocal wouldn't you say ?
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Are you equating "I can understand admiration for a strong man that gets things done"
with
"I admire a strong man who gets things done"?

If this is what you and 58 are doing, then I think you are both making an error of comprehension. If it's not what you are doing, please help me out.
 
Breckland said:
"I can understand admiration for a strong man that gets things done' Your words not mine and quite unequivocal wouldn't you say ?
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"What is weird is the fact that with a proven record as a miscalculating, incompetent loser, they still think he's got the right ideas"

Also jokerman's words and, it would seem, more unequivocal than the other bit you quoted.
 
Today's reality from people I know in Ukraine:

Natalia, former colleague, in Dnipro - "
Hello Phil, thank you for your message.
We are safe but had attacks from 8 a.m. 5 people were killed in the city, mainly in the hospital.
We had several hours interval and now again syrens informed about the new attacks.
Hope to survive.
Kind regards, Natalia"

And Elena's Mamochka in Nikolaev, whose apartment block was hit by a missile and her windows blown out, message from Elena - " Today it was sunny and warm day, too, In Moscow. I even wanted to go somewhere on a bike, but after talking with mama... she is so sad, no water, no gas, toothache and her dentist left Nikolaev a few months ago, and soon will be very cold in a flat and she doesn't want left and to come to me, because she can't left her son there alone.
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What will be - will be. she said.
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Nothing good will not be with Ukr crazy stupid corrupt Russian przdnt.
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"

Despite the determination being expressed by Ukrainians publicly several of my friends and contacts tell me that they think the attack on the Crimean bridge, if carried out by their special forces, was a tactical mistake and has given Putin the excuse for an all out war. My personal feeling is that the tide might just start turning the Russian's way unfortunately.
 
PhilK66 said:
Today's reality from people I know in Ukraine:

Natalia, former colleague, in Dnipro - "
Hello Phil, thank you for your message.
We are safe but had attacks from 8 a.m. 5 people were killed in the city, mainly in the hospital.
We had several hours interval and now again syrens informed about the new attacks.
Hope to survive.
Kind regards, Natalia"

And Elena's Mamochka in Nikolaev, whose apartment block was hit by a missile and her windows blown out, message from Elena - " Today it was sunny and warm day, too, In Moscow. I even wanted to go somewhere on a bike, but after talking with mama... she is so sad, no water, no gas, toothache and her dentist left Nikolaev a few months ago, and soon will be very cold in a flat and she doesn't want left and to come to me, because she can't left her son there alone.
32.png
What will be - will be. she said.
32.png
32.png
32.png
Nothing good will not be with Ukr crazy stupid corrupt Russian przdnt.
32.png
"

Despite the determination being expressed by Ukrainians publicly several of my friends and contacts tell me that they think the attack on the Crimean bridge, if carried out by their special forces, was a tactical mistake and has given Putin the excuse for an all out war. My personal feeling is that the tide might just start turning the Russian's way unfortunately.
Click to expand...


Many thanks for the updates. I don't share the pessimism, but they are on the spot.
 
PhilK66 said:
Today's reality from people I know in Ukraine:

Natalia, former colleague, in Dnipro - "
Hello Phil, thank you for your message.
We are safe but had attacks from 8 a.m. 5 people were killed in the city, mainly in the hospital.
We had several hours interval and now again syrens informed about the new attacks.
Hope to survive.
Kind regards, Natalia"

And Elena's Mamochka in Nikolaev, whose apartment block was hit by a missile and her windows blown out, message from Elena - " Today it was sunny and warm day, too, In Moscow. I even wanted to go somewhere on a bike, but after talking with mama... she is so sad, no water, no gas, toothache and her dentist left Nikolaev a few months ago, and soon will be very cold in a flat and she doesn't want left and to come to me, because she can't left her son there alone.
32.png
What will be - will be. she said.
32.png
32.png
32.png
Nothing good will not be with Ukr crazy stupid corrupt Russian przdnt.
32.png
"

Despite the determination being expressed by Ukrainians publicly several of my friends and contacts tell me that they think the attack on the Crimean bridge, if carried out by their special forces, was a tactical mistake and has given Putin the excuse for an all out war. My personal feeling is that the tide might just start turning the Russian's way unfortunately.
Click to expand...

Best wishes to those mentioned.

The head of GCHQ has today said it thinks Russia is running out of arms and soldiers, despite adding conscription to their numbers.
 
valenciagill said:
Russia has an army of 1.1 million
He's talking bollocks , to the millions taking it all in !
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It doesn’t matter how many troops they have if they have no uniforms or arms.
From what I’ve seen, they are being expected to buy their own kit and are supplied with obsolete weapons.
Some conscripts have already surrendered to avoid fighting.
As you are fully aware, a motivated army are difficult to beat.
Russian troops don’t appear to be motivated.
 
jokerman said:
Are you equating "I can understand admiration for a strong man that gets things done"
with
"I admire a strong man who gets things done"?

If this is what you and 58 are doing, then I think you are both making an error of comprehension. If it's not what you are doing, please help me out.
Click to expand...
I hear from some people that they want a "strong leader" but seemingly regardless of their policies. Being "strong" seems to be their major desire. Hitler and Stalin were strong ffs. Sad. Hence my "like" of Brecker's post.

I certainly do not suggest that you approve of Putin (or Hitler/Stalin et al for that matter).
 
Gills 58 said:
I hear from some people that they want a "strong leader" but seemingly regardless of their policies. Being "strong" seems to be their major desire. Hitler and Stalin were strong ffs. Sad. Hence my "like" of Brecker's post.

I certainly do not suggest that you approve of Putin (or Hitler/Stalin et al for that matter).
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Yes , the phrase 'strong man that gets things done' is that of the poster. He is not quoting someone else's opinion but using a description that he has authored.
 
If Putin is regarded a strong leader, why is he not putting himself on the front line and leading the troops in to battle?

Never ask anyone to do anything you would not do yourself.

Not serious, of course, he can just hide away, particularly as Ukraine are being told by allies not to attack Moscow, even though Kiev has been bombed. Such restrictions do not normally apply in an all out war. How, therefore, can there ever be any debate about who is the aggressor?
 
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