The Cameron Archer Thread | Page 7 | Vital Football

The Cameron Archer Thread

Wicked Messenger said:
It’s not the existing strikers that’s the problem it’s providing them with some decent service. We’re not seriously saying he’s going to do better than Watkins or Ings, proven goal scorers, who hardly get a kick at the moment. I would say he’s better off where he is in terms of service received. His time will come.
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Last season it was Louie Barry, the enlightened wanted in the first team this year it's Archer. Louie who this season can't get a kick at Ipswich. Most of our one loan wonder kids aren't getting a kick
 
Wicked Messenger said:
It’s not the existing strikers that’s the problem it’s providing them with some decent service. We’re not seriously saying he’s going to do better than Watkins or Ings, proven goal scorers, who hardly get a kick at the moment. I would say he’s better off where he is in terms of service received. His time will come.
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Hang on Watkins especially has been fluffing his lines, ings too a couple of times. Why not ruffle some feathers while the kid is on fire
 
Villan57 said:
Last season it was Louie Barry, the enlightened wanted in the first team this year it's Archer. Louie who this season can't get a kick at Ipswich. Most of our one loan wonder kids aren't getting a kick
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Agree re Barry but Archer seems closer to being first team ready as he’s scored for the senior side in the cup and seems to be banging them in in the paint trophy or whatever it’s called against senior opposition. Barry only did it in the youth sides and in that farcical cup game against Liverpool. I don’t think anyone seriously is saying start him but why not 15 minutes off the bench to see what he can do? Smith has actually bought him on a couple of times before but with no time to make an impact so it’s not a totally ludicrous suggestion
 
david-avfc said:
Agree re Barry but Archer seems closer to being first team ready as he’s scored for the senior side in the cup and seems to be banging them in in the paint trophy or whatever it’s called against senior opposition. Barry only did it in the youth sides and in that farcical cup game against Liverpool. I don’t think anyone seriously is saying start him but why not 15 minutes off the bench to see what he can do? Smith has actually bought him on a couple of times before but with no time to make an impact so it’s not a totally ludicrous suggestion
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To play him you have to first convince Smith that Watkins can actually be subbed or dropped and I don't think that will happen and that Ings will make way for the 433 system everyone seems sure is the route forwards or indeed backwards
 
david-avfc said:
Agree re Barry but Archer seems closer to being first team ready as he’s scored for the senior side in the cup and seems to be banging them in in the paint trophy or whatever it’s called against senior opposition. Barry only did it in the youth sides and in that farcical cup game against Liverpool. I don’t think anyone seriously is saying start him but why not 15 minutes off the bench to see what he can do? Smith has actually bought him on a couple of times before but with no time to make an impact so it’s not a totally ludicrous suggestion
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Kind of contradicted yourself David. You say give him 15 mins from the bench then say Smith has brought him on previously but with no real time to make an impact.

I agree and disagree with you and was going to say similar. With his performances this season if he is going to be involved he needs to start then we can see . If not working out then bring him off. I don’t think 15 mins is enough time at all to gauge.

The big question for Smith is that in our current form can he afford to start an unknown because let’s face it if you are a manager under pressure in need of results and have Ings, Watkins and Archer to choose from you will go with what you know, who are proven , even if their form might be currently dodgy. You will work on the basis that they are still more likely than a novice kid and playing Archer instead of Ings, Watkins or both isn’t stacking cards in your favour, its a total gamble.
 
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Villan57 said:
To play him you have to first convince Smith that Watkins can actually be subbed or dropped and I don't think that will happen and that Ings will make way for the 433 system everyone seems sure is the route forwards or indeed backwards
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I'm pretty sure he will be able to control the ball better than Watkins right now so that's a plus point at least.
 
Melon Donkey said:
Kind of contradicted yourself David. You say give him 15 mins from the bench then say Smith has brought him on previously but with no real time to make an impact.

I agree and disagree with you and was going to say similar. With his performances this season if he is going to be involved he needs to start then we can see . If not working out then bring him off. I don’t think 15 mins is enough time at all to gauge.

The big question for Smith is that in our current form can he afford to start an unknown because let’s face it if you are a manager under pressure in need of results and have Ings, Watkins and Archer to choose from you will go with what you know, who are proven , even if their form might be currently dodgy. You will work on the basis that they are still more likely than an novice kid and playing Archer instead of Ings, Watkins or both isn’t stacking cards in your favour.
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He was subbed on in for about 2 minutes against Man U and Spurs which is what I meant by no chance to make an impact. There is a huge gulf between PL and other comps which is why I think it’s unlikely for him to start, especially if we (hopefully) switch back a single striker system. Being brought on around 70-75th minute would at least give him the opportunity to join in a few attacks and to get the ball a couple of times to see what he can do and whether he looks capable at the higher level of the PL
 
He was done a hell of a lot more than Louie Barry. He looks physically up to the task too. The point made above about momentum is key, he's finding the back of the net regularly, Watkins isn't, and neither is Ings tbh.

I'm hardly demanding he starts but I wouldn't be against him getting more time.
 
Going from 5 minute cameos to starting is a bit of an ask for a young lad. Get him on at 60 mins a couple of times in games still for the taking to see how he does and take it from there.
 
Platypus said:
Going from 5 minute cameos to starting is a bit of an ask for a young lad. Get him on at 60 mins a couple of times in games still for the taking to see how he does and take it from there.
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I think both Archer and Philo should be on the bench and serious options to come on after 60 minutes.

Shouldn't be too difficult. We have several players who can't do 90 minutes. I wouldn't be against giving Archer the odd start. With the squad we now have we shouldn't be playing the same team week after week. Makes those on the bench increasingly frustrated, unjustifiably.
 
McParlandTheGreat said:
I think both Archer and Philo should be on the bench and serious options to come on after 60 minutes.

Shouldn't be too difficult. We have several players who can't do 90 minutes. I wouldn't be against giving Archer the odd start. With the squad we now have we shouldn't be playing the same team week after week. Makes those on the bench increasingly frustrated, unjustifiably.
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In a way our position this season is ideal for giving them game time, we aren't going down, and we aren't getting into Europe. The big unknown is if Smithy will be brave enough with his head on the block.
 
If Watkins was playing well then I doubt this thread would have got off the ground. The fact is, he isn’t, and he needs to realize that if he isn’t, then someone else will get the chance to do better.
I would be prepared to start Archer with Ings and give him until at least half time to make his mark.
If it’s just not happening then bring Watkins on for the second half. If nothing else, we would see what Watkins is made of when put in that situation. Hopefully he would be doubly determined to do better than he has been doing. In any case I also think we need to see if Archer can link up with Ings more effectively anyway, it might just prove to be a better partnership.
 
The French Connection said:
If Watkins was playing well then I doubt this thread would have got off the ground. The fact is, he isn’t, and he needs to realize that if he isn’t, then someone else will get the chance to do better.
I would be prepared to start Archer with Ings and give him until at least half time to make his mark.
If it’s just not happening then bring Watkins on for the second half. If nothing else, we would see what Watkins is made of when put in that situation. Hopefully he would be doubly determined to do better than he has been doing. In any case I also think we need to see if Archer can link up with Ings more effectively anyway, it might just prove to be a better partnership.
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I get what your saying , but if you watch Archer in the u21 you can see he relies on his midfield passing to him ie through balls wide crosses and strait to his feet so he then can do an outstanding charge on goal or just be in the box for the touch in .
Where will he get that with our current form and set up ?
Anyway I turely hope he gets more PL game time so he can get a feeling of what's to come in his career .
 
Mutt_Man said:
I get what your saying , but if you watch Archer in the u21 you can see he relies on his midfield passing to him ie through balls wide crosses and strait to his feet so he then can do an outstanding charge on goal or just be in the box for the touch in .
Where will he get that with our current form and set up ?
Anyway I turely hope he gets more PL game time so he can get a feeling of what's to come in his career .
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Admittedly our midfield hasn’t been great in terms of creativity but Watkins has seen quite a bit of the ball all the same. He just hasn’t done much of any use when he’s been in possession. Often he’s attempted to do far too much on his own , got caught in possession and put the team under pressure in doing so.
 
The French Connection said:
I would be prepared to start Archer with Ings and give him until at least half time to make his mark.
If it’s just not happening then bring Watkins on for the second half. If nothing else, we would see what Watkins is made of when put in that situation.
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I’m not sure what book of management this comes out of but poor young Archer 45 minutes to make his mark in the PL! :LOL:
 
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