Crown Vs Markles | Page 6 | Vital Football

Crown Vs Markles

Strett said:
Morgan is paid for his opinion on a channel that is free to give them.
Being sacked over this has now left ITV with a bit of an existential crisis and as you say, Andrew Neil's new news channel will be courting him. It'll be a place that the majority of people who listen to opinions, who don't get offended, will turn to for their news.

It's comically ironic that the very same people who think it's urbane and cool to get people cancelled whom they don't agree with, are the same who despise the the new news channel (before it's even aired) they have unwittingly created.
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Opps he quit, he wasnt sacked
 
i am a tree said:
So if you own a company, and you hire someone to represent your company to the public, you shouldn't be allowed to ask them to quit if they make your company look bad?

The point is not to do with whether or not Markle was lying. Besides, I'd like to know how you intend to find out whether she was suicidal or not, that's kind of a difficult thing to prove.

The point is that casting doubt on people experience of mental health issues, especially in such a public forum, is harmful to everyone who has/will have those issues, because it adds to the stigma of mental health. This is especially true when, like Morgan, you do it for reasons of personal bitterness in your capacity as a representative of a company.

ITV clearly recognised this.

To your point that people should be able to give their opinions, I agree, and he wasn't arrested for giving his opinion, so I don't know what it is you want anyone to do. If he had said 'You know, Hitler was actually pretty neat' you expect him to sacked, no? Some opinions reflect badly on an employer.
You want the 40,000 people and dozens of GMB staff who complained to OFCOM or ITV to have not given their opinion?
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I think Morgan goes about things very clumsily, which is half the issue IMO.
More cultured commentators would have framed it more compassionately, as tensions were running fairly high and anybody suggesting suicidal thoughts should not be dismissed in this way.

Morgan's bag is being insensitive and basking in the afterglow of the wave he created. ITV knew this, and they still chased ratings in employing someone who courts controversy most days, be it the environment, veganism, trans, woke, race, etc. What do ITV do now? Their ratings will plummet. Do they go after another baiter? I saw Jeremy Clarkson trending yesterday.

As I put earlier, ITV current affairs have an existential crisis now.

Bring back Wincey Willis, Rusty Lee and Roland Rat, I say
 
i am a tree said:
So if you own a company, and you hire someone to represent your company to the public, you shouldn't be allowed to ask them to quit if they make your company look bad?

The point is not to do with whether or not Markle was lying. Besides, I'd like to know how you intend to find out whether she was suicidal or not, that's kind of a difficult thing to prove.

The point is that casting doubt on people experience of mental health issues, especially in such a public forum, is harmful to everyone who has/will have those issues, because it adds to the stigma of mental health. This is especially true when, like Morgan, you do it for reasons of personal bitterness in your capacity as a representative of a company.

ITV clearly recognised this.

To your point that people should be able to give their opinions, I agree, and he wasn't arrested for giving his opinion, so I don't know what it is you want anyone to do. If he had said 'You know, Hitler was actually pretty neat' you expect him to sacked, no? Some opinions reflect badly on an employer.
You want the 40,000 people and dozens of GMB staff who complained to OFCOM or ITV to have not given their opinion?
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I think this is right, morgan took a pasting over the mental health aspect and rightly so imo
 
Strett said:
He is paid for his opinions though and his opinion is she was lying. *
The best way IMO to route this out, is to debate and prove/disprove that he is correct/incorrect. Cancelling people has the effect of doing none of this.

It is a dangerous road when people cannot give their opinions in fear of losing their job, which is giving their opinions.

*I am not siding with Morgan on this, BTW.
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Can broadly agree but it gets more problematic when the debate is not honest.

Brexit wasnt an honest debate and neither is what passes for debate re racism.
 
Strett said:
I think Morgan goes about things very clumsily, which is half the issue IMO.
More cultured commentators would have framed it more compassionately, as tensions were running fairly high and anybody suggesting suicidal thoughts should not be dismissed in this way.

Morgan's bag is being insensitive and basking in the afterglow of the wave he created. ITV knew this, and they still chased ratings in employing someone who courts controversy most days, be it the environment, veganism, trans, woke, race, etc. What do ITV do now? Their ratings will plummet. Do they go after another baiter? I saw Jeremy Clarkson trending yesterday.

As I put earlier, ITV current affairs have an existential crisis now.

Bring back Wincey Willis, Rusty Lee and Roland Rat, I say
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I do agree with you that in hiring him, they knew exactly what they were doing.

It turns out they want just the right level of controversy, not too much and not too little. I guess that's the way of things when you're chasing ratings in the controversy market.

I think you may be exaggerating slightly by calling it an existential crisis though. Its not as though Morgan is the only person who can do what he was doing. They just need to hire someone else to do the same thing who can recognize where the line is. He didn't even have particularly unique personality or anything like that. He's just a bloke who lost it on his own tv show.
 
i am a tree said:
I do agree with you that in hiring him, they knew exactly what they were doing.

It turns out they want just the right level of controversy, not too much and not too little. I guess that's the way of things when you're chasing ratings in the controversy market.

I think you may be exaggerating slightly by calling it an existential crisis though. Its not as though Morgan is the only person who can do what he was doing. They just need to hire someone else to do the same thing who can recognize where the line is. He didn't even have particularly unique personality or anything like that. He's just a bloke who lost it on his own tv show.
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ITV are great at dramas I see this as their bag. C4 have got the wet left covered by their current affairs programmes and the new Andrew Neil show will pull the opposite to those.
BBC execs will be laughing into their lattes.
 
i am a tree said:
So if you own a company, and you hire someone to represent your company to the public, you shouldn't be allowed to ask them to quit if they make your company look bad?

The point is not to do with whether or not Markle was lying. Besides, I'd like to know how you intend to find out whether she was suicidal or not, that's kind of a difficult thing to prove.

The point is that casting doubt on people experience of mental health issues, especially in such a public forum, is harmful to everyone who has/will have those issues, because it adds to the stigma of mental health. This is especially true when, like Morgan, you do it for reasons of personal bitterness in your capacity as a representative of a company.

ITV clearly recognised this.

To your point that people should be able to give their opinions, I agree, and he wasn't arrested for giving his opinion, so I don't know what it is you want anyone to do. If he had said 'You know, Hitler was actually pretty neat' you expect him to sacked, no? Some opinions reflect badly on an employer.
You want the 40,000 people and dozens of GMB staff who complained to OFCOM or ITV to have not given their opinion?
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"The point is not to do with whether or not Markle was lying"

It might not be THE point, but it is certainly one of them.

Going on Television in front of millions and making a specific allegation against and unnamed person is pretty serious.

Having just gone through one Court case, Megan probably thought it wise not to prompt another one, which would inevitably been the case had the mystery person been named.

Making serious allegations and then letting them hang is a huge cop out; not only is the mystery person getting away with the wrong doing but the spotlight is also falling on any number of innocent people.

Although that may not be a crime, it fucking well should be.

If Markle is claiming she did not know what a despicable set of C * n t s the Royal Family are she must have been in a coma for the last 20 years; she walked into that marriage with her eyes wide open, there is no one to blame for what has happened other than herself.

Which brings us on to this:

"The point is that casting doubt on people experience of mental health issues, especially in such a public forum, is harmful to everyone who has/will have those issues, because it adds to the stigma of mental health."

You make the assumption that everyone who claims to have mental health issues actually do so, an assumption which is undoubtedly incorrect.

There are people out there lying about mental health experiences; I have sat in Pubs listening to people brag about getting sick notes for months on end for things like depression and anxiety and other made up conditions, and this is not a new phenomena

Mental Health is the new bad back for some people and the medical staff who deal with the problems have too much on their plate to investigate fully.

As for whether she was suicidal or not, you are right, we will never know; although I would guess that at the time when everything was unravelling she had a pretty good idea of the pay day that awaited her once everything had settled down.

There are two kinds of suicide victims, those who talk about it and those who get on with it; those who talk about it are usually crying for help, and lets face it millions of dollars are a great help.
 
mao tse tung said:
"The point is not to do with whether or not Markle was lying"

It might not be THE point, but it is certainly one of them.

Going on Television in front of millions and making a specific allegation against and unnamed person is pretty serious.

Having just gone through one Court case, Megan probably thought it wise not to prompt another one, which would inevitably been the case had the mystery person been named.

Making serious allegations and then letting them hang is a huge cop out; not only is the mystery person getting away with the wrong doing but the spotlight is also falling on any number of innocent people.

Although that may not be a crime, it fucking well should be.

If Markle is claiming she did not know what a despicable set of C * n t s the Royal Family are she must have been in a coma for the last 20 years; she walked into that marriage with her eyes wide open, there is no one to blame for what has happened other than herself.

Which brings us on to this:

"The point is that casting doubt on people experience of mental health issues, especially in such a public forum, is harmful to everyone who has/will have those issues, because it adds to the stigma of mental health."

You make the assumption that everyone who claims to have mental health issues actually do so, an assumption which is undoubtedly incorrect.

There are people out there lying about mental health experiences; I have sat in Pubs listening to people brag about getting sick notes for months on end for things like depression and anxiety and other made up conditions, and this is not a new phenomena

Mental Health is the new bad back for some people and the medical staff who deal with the problems have too much on their plate to investigate fully.

As for whether she was suicidal or not, you are right, we will never know; although I would guess that at the time when everything was unravelling she had a pretty good idea of the pay day that awaited her once everything had settled down.

There are two kinds of suicide victims, those who talk about it and those who get on with it; those who talk about it are usually crying for help, and lets face it millions of dollars are a great help.
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Well put
 
mao tse tung said:
"The point is not to do with whether or not Markle was lying"

It might not be THE point, but it is certainly one of them.

Going on Television in front of millions and making a specific allegation against and unnamed person is pretty serious.

Having just gone through one Court case, Megan probably thought it wise not to prompt another one, which would inevitably been the case had the mystery person been named.

Making serious allegations and then letting them hang is a huge cop out; not only is the mystery person getting away with the wrong doing but the spotlight is also falling on any number of innocent people.

Although that may not be a crime, it fucking well should be.

If Markle is claiming she did not know what a despicable set of C * n t s the Royal Family are she must have been in a coma for the last 20 years; she walked into that marriage with her eyes wide open, there is no one to blame for what has happened other than herself.

Which brings us on to this:

"The point is that casting doubt on people experience of mental health issues, especially in such a public forum, is harmful to everyone who has/will have those issues, because it adds to the stigma of mental health."

You make the assumption that everyone who claims to have mental health issues actually do so, an assumption which is undoubtedly incorrect.

There are people out there lying about mental health experiences; I have sat in Pubs listening to people brag about getting sick notes for months on end for things like depression and anxiety and other made up conditions, and this is not a new phenomena

Mental Health is the new bad back for some people and the medical staff who deal with the problems have too much on their plate to investigate fully.

As for whether she was suicidal or not, you are right, we will never know; although I would guess that at the time when everything was unravelling she had a pretty good idea of the pay day that awaited her once everything had settled down.

There are two kinds of suicide victims, those who talk about it and those who get on with it; those who talk about it are usually crying for help, and lets face it millions of dollars are a great help.
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The unnamed part I saw as a bit of a threat that they'll spill the beans in the future.
Cowardly to make an accusation and not name the person.

Hitchen's razor is apt here: The burden of proof regarding the truthfulness of a claim lies with the one who makes the claim; if this burden is not met, then the claim is unfounded, and its opponents need not argue further in order to dismiss it.
 
mao tse tung said:
Which brings us on to this:

"The point is that casting doubt on people experience of mental health issues, especially in such a public forum, is harmful to everyone who has/will have those issues, because it adds to the stigma of mental health."

You make the assumption that everyone who claims to have mental health issues actually do so, an assumption which is undoubtedly incorrect.

There are people out there lying about mental health experiences; I have sat in Pubs listening to people brag about getting sick notes for months on end for things like depression and anxiety and other made up conditions, and this is not a new phenomena

Mental Health is the new bad back for some people and the medical staff who deal with the problems have too much on their plate to investigate fully.

As for whether she was suicidal or not, you are right, we will never know; although I would guess that at the time when everything was unravelling she had a pretty good idea of the pay day that awaited her once everything had settled down.

There are two kinds of suicide victims, those who talk about it and those who get on with it; those who talk about it are usually crying for help, and lets face it millions of dollars are a great help.
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I made no such assumption. Not in the slightest.
I made the judgement that it is more harmful to add to the stigma of mental health problems (a stigma which is wholly responsible for the mental health crisis we are in, and a stigma which further allows people to exploit the issue) than it is to decide not to challenge anyone who says in public they have struggled with mental health.
If one of your friends reads this post and sees that you are happy to cast doubt on that stuff than that is one of your friends who won't talk to you about their mental health issues, and that is support they could be getting but aren't. That is what I mean by the stigma of mental health.
What's the alternative, I hear you cry, we just let this person get away with *maybe* lying about their mental health by not doubting it in public?
As if that would be such a tragedy.

Its just another version of 'young people are pussies, things should be like they were 50 years ago when we didn't have to hear about other people's problems and everyone was nice and repressed'

But I suppose the relevant issue here (as usual with these things) turns out to be benefit fraud.
There are two kinds of suicide victims, those who talk about it and those who get on with it; those who talk about it are usually crying for help, and lets face it millions of dollars are a great help.
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The implication here is that people with REAL mental health problems would have just done it (I've heard that many times before).
If that is what you meant to imply, this attitude doesn't just contribute to the problem, it is the problem.



"The point is not to do with whether or not Markle was lying"

It might not be THE point, but it is certainly one of them.

Going on Television in front of millions and making a specific allegation against and unnamed person is pretty serious.

Having just gone through one Court case, Megan probably thought it wise not to prompt another one, which would inevitably been the case had the mystery person been named.

Making serious allegations and then letting them hang is a huge cop out; not only is the mystery person getting away with the wrong doing but the spotlight is also falling on any number of innocent people.

Although that may not be a crime, it fucking well should be.

If Markle is claiming she did not know what a despicable set of C * n t s the Royal Family are she must have been in a coma for the last 20 years; she walked into that marriage with her eyes wide open, there is no one to blame for what has happened other than herself.
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Hard to disagree with any of that.
 
Don't really get why people defend the Royal family - what do they actually do? They're just a rich family, rich through pillaging other countries, why does anyone care about them?

Good on Harry and Megan for getting out and speaking up against a crazy, crazy old fashioned, bizarre tradition.
 
i am a tree said:
I don't know about all that.
The trick is not to believe any of them. Kate Middleton says Meghan made her cry. Don't believe her. Meghan said Kate made her cry. Don't believe her either. obviously there's a battle going on and they all have PR to think about so lying is neither here nor there to them. Meghan and Harry in particular, if you look at how carefully orchestrated and strategic all of their moves seem to be.... I wouldn't trust a single word either of them say.
What's beyond question though is that Meghan has been unfairly blasted by the press at every occasion (see pope's link earlier), the difference in the way Kate and Meghan are treated. That'd probably make me very bitter tbh.
But anyway, I don't know any of them and I would probably dislike them if I did.
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yeah for sure, on the press side its a black n white case of shocking shit
 
Marco Polo said:
Don't really get why people defend the Royal family - what do they actually do? They're just a rich family, rich through pillaging other countries, why does anyone care about them?

Good on Harry and Megan for getting out and speaking up against a crazy, crazy old fashioned, bizarre tradition.
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its not that I have an issue with, its the person that ends up doing it, some other spoiled princess of media shit.
Yesterday my missus was listening to the young girls at work, they were all Meg this n that. She asked them why they actually thought she was a genuine person and their answer was literally "she was nice in suits" . No joke
 
Marco Polo said:
Don't really get why people defend the Royal family - what do they actually do? They're just a rich family, rich through pillaging other countries, why does anyone care about them?

Good on Harry and Megan for getting out and speaking up against a crazy, crazy old fashioned, bizarre tradition.
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Because the alternative is worse (i.e. a politician) and the queen has done a decent job and set the standard imo
 
mao tse tung said:
"The point is not to do with whether or not Markle was lying"

It might not be THE point, but it is certainly one of them.

Going on Television in front of millions and making a specific allegation against and unnamed person is pretty serious.

Having just gone through one Court case, Megan probably thought it wise not to prompt another one, which would inevitably been the case had the mystery person been named.

Making serious allegations and then letting them hang is a huge cop out; not only is the mystery person getting away with the wrong doing but the spotlight is also falling on any number of innocent people.

Although that may not be a crime, it fucking well should be.

If Markle is claiming she did not know what a despicable set of C * n t s the Royal Family are she must have been in a coma for the last 20 years; she walked into that marriage with her eyes wide open, there is no one to blame for what has happened other than herself.

Which brings us on to this:

"The point is that casting doubt on people experience of mental health issues, especially in such a public forum, is harmful to everyone who has/will have those issues, because it adds to the stigma of mental health."

You make the assumption that everyone who claims to have mental health issues actually do so, an assumption which is undoubtedly incorrect.

There are people out there lying about mental health experiences; I have sat in Pubs listening to people brag about getting sick notes for months on end for things like depression and anxiety and other made up conditions, and this is not a new phenomena

Mental Health is the new bad back for some people and the medical staff who deal with the problems have too much on their plate to investigate fully.

As for whether she was suicidal or not, you are right, we will never know; although I would guess that at the time when everything was unravelling she had a pretty good idea of the pay day that awaited her once everything had settled down.

There are two kinds of suicide victims, those who talk about it and those who get on with it; those who talk about it are usually crying for help, and lets face it millions of dollars are a great help.
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It is a bit scarey now, I mean we all have these 'human conditions' and I really don't see them as mental health issues, far more mental wellbeing. Theres a world of difference. If someone is feeling sorry for themselves or feeling a bit lonely we shouldnt be categorising them in the same way as someone with autism or severe clinical depression
 
mao tse tung said:
Yes, but some recollections may vary
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Have Elton John or Christopher Walken said anything yet? It won’t be the prinonce as he’s only interested in teenage girls, the Greek zombie has had dementia for years, the sausage fingered Toby Jug is who my money’s on, doubt it’d be the corpse bride or the mad hatters & the other one & his wife are so dull I doubt they’ve even seen the family for years.
 
It’s nice to be out in the open as a republican again hopefully this is the middle of the end. I do feel bad for Elton John as they’ve worked very hard for years to keep the shit show together & when she dies it’d be slightly sad to know she knew it was the end.
 
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