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Coronavirus

I've not been keeping up with this thread, but is anyone else like me thinking that cautiousness of this roadmap is way OTT?

In my mind if 97% of Covid deaths are in the over 60's and all over 60's and vunerable are now vaccinated shouldn't we just be opening up again?

Are we really going to destroy our economy and peoples mental health for the 3%?

I thought the lockdown was to protect the NHS, but as case numbers and fatalities have already drastically reduced, then why are we still locking down for another 3 MONTHS! ?

I don't get it. It's now just a deadly virus we can vaccinate against. Same as flu.
 
I suspect the masses are already breaking the rules on a small basis, but to be fair to the masses they’re abiding by the rules enough for the transmission to be falling.

I’m not going to criticise the govt for a cautious rollout after a few high profile failures after being too optimistic, and I hope they can accelerate freedom a bit quicker than the current plan.

Once the people who are retired are done, continue with the rollout to the high risk and let us get back to normal.

Unfortunately those who are higher risk will just have to protect themselves for their own good a little longer. Whilst that might seem unfair for me to say that, as someone who isn’t worried about catching it, it would be a shame for someone high risk to flout the rules and die at this stage.

We can’t hold up the economy and stop people seeing their family for much longer, I’ve done my bit now and to be honest, I’m struggling now.
 
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I've followed the rules (most of the time) as best I can, as I was told it was to protect the NHS and to protect the elderly, and to protect the vunerable.

Who am I protecting now?

I understand the thing about requiring 2nd jabs for full immunity, so I'm not saying open up everything tomorrow, but in a months time when 3 or 4 million or the oldest and most vinerable have had their 2nd jabs, then just get things open.
 
I think they are cautious because the last time they opened up the muppets invaded the Beaches, pubs and Primark like a herd of lemmings seeing a cliff for the first time.
Opening up gradually stops the stampede I assume is the thinking because they can't trust people to be sensible.
We have to still remember this virus hasn't gone away and there are enough anti-vaxxers and non-believers out there ti cause another serge
 
DeanoVilla said:
I've followed the rules (most of the time) as best I can, as I was told it was to protect the NHS and to protect the elderly, and to protect the vunerable.

Who am I protecting now?

I understand the thing about requiring 2nd jabs for full immunity, so I'm not saying open up everything tomorrow, but in a months time when 3 or 4 million or the oldest and most vinerable have had their 2nd jabs, then just get things open.
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My nan is a proper Tory, very proper and does things to the letter of the law. She’s taken every precaution to the point she has only seen us briefly which was outdoors last summer.

For the first time in a year, she’s had someone in her house for a cuppa, my cousin who has also been vaccinated.

I’m at the point now, if it’s good enough for my nan to allow herself to see family, and if I along with the unvaccinated part of my family decide we want to see each other, then we get to a point that is our risk to decide.

I’m talking in very limited numbers and that relies on people to be sensible, and unfortunately that isn’t always the case.

We shouldn’t rush going back into offices or opening up establishments under a roof though. It’s unfortunate for those businesses but that will increase the transmission but sticking hundreds of people back under the same roof is very different from me being in a garden with my folks and a few kids running about.
 
danvilla2 said:
My nan is a proper Tory, very proper and does things to the letter of the law. She’s taken every precaution to the point she has only seen us briefly which was outdoors last summer.

For the first time in a year, she’s had someone in her house for a cuppa, my cousin who has also been vaccinated.

I’m at the point now, if it’s good enough for my nan to allow herself to see family, and if I along with the unvaccinated part of my family decide we want to see each other, then we get to a point that is our risk to decide.

I’m talking in very limited numbers and that relies on people to be sensible, and unfortunately that isn’t always the case.

We shouldn’t rush going back into offices or opening up establishments under a roof though. It’s unfortunate for those businesses but that will increase the transmission but sticking hundreds of people back under the same roof is very different from me being in a garden with my folks and a few kids running about.
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Yep my son in law has just been out on a job with his Dad, who lives next door and has done everything to the book for over a year. (Even to the point of building a specially secure vented room with a partition down the middle ). They still traveled to the job in separate cars and it was an outdoor survey od asbestos so both wore the best PPE money can buy too !!
 
danvilla2 said:
I’m at the point now, if it’s good enough for my nan to allow herself to see family, and if I along with the unvaccinated part of my family decide we want to see each other, then we get to a point that is our risk to decide.
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Get the point about how good it is for your Nan etc and important for her health and mental wellbeing

But, Its not just you or your families risk though Dan I’m afraid. It’s the risk to the people wider than your family that you and your family subsequently interact with and so on....
 
Think the caution is due to the way this feckless Government have messed up, time and time again. They have cost us this.

Now they are saying open up schools, give it a couple of weeks, see what the r rate is like/no spikes. Then do the next bit, give it a couple of weeks, check the r rate/no spikes. And so on.

Should have been the way out last time. They know full well, if they fuck this one up, it will be very difficult to lock us down again, unless we end up with a new variant

So although it is a mind fuck, it is the right way to do it, thanks to their pathetic performance (vaccine aside, and that is a success because they haven't tried to re-invent the wheel like they did with track and trace) it is bloody late though, as said, should have been done before, not lockdown then right, all of you get 50% go eat out etc.
 
The Fear said:
Think the caution is due to the way this feckless Government have messed up, time and time again. They have cost us this.

Now they are saying open up schools, give it a couple of weeks, see what the r rate is like/no spikes. Then do the next bit, give it a couple of weeks, check the r rate/no spikes. And so on.

Should have been the way out last time. They know full well, if they fuck this one up, it will be very difficult to lock us down again, unless we end up with a new variant

So although it is a mind fuck, it is the right way to do it, thanks to their pathetic performance (vaccine aside, and that is a success because they haven't tried to re-invent the wheel like they did with track and trace) it is bloody late though, as said, should have been done before, not lockdown then right, all of you get 50% go eat out etc.
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yep but they didn't tell the muppets to go out and spread it about again they trusted people to be sensible, which was the biggest mistake. For every sensible person, there are those who will pick and choose which bits suit them. ie whoopy doo free meals lets go! Me fuck that it's not safe.
 
danvilla2 said:
I’m at the point now, if it’s good enough for my nan to allow herself to see family, and if I along with the unvaccinated part of my family decide we want to see each other, then we get to a point that is our risk to decide.
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Henceforth, this policy will be none as the 'Tory Nan Scale' of behaviour!

:grinning:

I totally get it, first lockdown I was doing the shopping for my shielding parents and got fed up standing on the doorstep at the front where it was blowy, so went through the garden instead, more sheltered. Didn't go in, but technically it was breaking the rules. A logical and safe decision.

Trouble is, the feckless who make their minds up, that is the risk. And as you say 'it is our risk to decide'... I get that, and you are an (hate saying this) responsible and intelligent person, but the risk we all decide on, could lead to further spreading and a mutation. So some youngsters (not aimed at you then ner ner!) don't seem to think this affects them, what if the next mutation does? Then we could be fucked, if the old and the vulnerable die, it is sad but...... (I include myself in that) if, like Swine Flu did, it starts hitting/killing the young..... and proves difficult to stop spreading.

Not an easy balancing act is it?

The only rule I think I broke, out of ignorance, was meeting up with 2 friends, forget at what stage of all this it was. I thought you could meet with 2 other households, it was 2 households could meet.

Totally my mistake, but so many mixed mumbling messages from this Gov, it did get to the point - oh I remember, it was tier system time, it was difficult to keep up, and that is from someone who has been fairly switched on, actively reading up on all this stuff throughout.
 
Villan57 said:
yep but they didn't tell the muppets to go out and spread it about again they trusted people to be sensible, which was the biggest mistake. For every sensible person, there are those who will pick and choose which bits suit them. ie whoopy doo free meals lets go! Me fuck that it's not safe.
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No they didn't, they sent us out, and they set the example, not following his own rules nearly killed Johnson, then there was the filth of Cummings and his bullshit.

The gov were the ones who did the 50% and got people out, it was ludicrous.

They set the tone, once Cummings had done his breaking of the rules, a lot of people, I believe, thought fuck it.
 
We are nowhere near out of this and so the NHS still need protecting and the vulnerable and not so vulnerable still need protecting. And the numbers of deaths, infections were far far above anything last year in lockdown 1 so it’s coming down from a huge level.

Its the correct approach and actually i dont like this setting of firm dates . I get the impression that at midnight on the 20th of June people will think that’s it, the pandemic is over. Judging by how it is out there now, many think it is .

As JF says the government have caused their own problems but also too many of the great British public have let us all down and have contributed in having to have this cautious approach.
 
Melon Donkey said:
Get the point about how good it is for your Nan etc and important for her health and mental wellbeing

But, Its not just you or your families risk though Dan I’m afraid. It’s the risk to the people wider than your family that you and your family subsequently interact with and so on....
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I understand the point completely about the wider consequences. The facts I believe are that transmission outdoors with social distancing is low therefore if it’s done by the book the risk should be low - not necessarily nil, but low. I get the social and child bubble thing, but the risk is just the same as meeting family just without the legal excuse. The problem with a lot of people, if you give an inch and people take a mile.

The bit that we need to get to, is if 90% of over 65’s have been vaccinated and they made up 90% of deaths, how low a figure do we go to before we are allowed to put mental health, and other health issues being delayed, to being a priority once again.

Anyone over 65 who has not been vaccinated out of choice, well they live with the consequences. That’s not something I am going to lose sleep over if they get it and the worst happens.

I’m hoping that we can get the 40’s and 50’s done, as a man my 30’s I’m probably looking at June for a vaccine, which I actually think they’ll get though the generations quite quickly as the lower you get down the ages the less people will want it or think they need it.

My posts now are frustration. I’ve not had it, no-one in family has, I haven’t passed it on. I’ve made sure that I’ve been socially responsible, I’ve changed my life drastically since a year ago to the point I’m not prepared to do it much longer. I don’t see anyone apart from those in my household, and perhaps the odd chat with the lady next door.

Ultimately despite being socially responsible, my main concern has always been my elders. I feel like I’m deserving of being able to have that allowed back, if they are all vaccinated and those of us who haven’t - by their own choice - choose to meet. I don’t want the floodgates to open though, far from it.
 
The Fear said:
No they didn't, they sent us out, and they set the example, not following his own rules nearly killed Johnson, then there was the filth of Cummings and his bullshit.

The gov were the ones who did the 50% and got people out, it was ludicrous.

They set the tone, once Cummings had done his breaking of the rules, a lot of people, I believe, thought fuck it.
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Everyone has broke the rules at some point, innocently or on purpose. There’s the odd rule break and then there’s just ignorance completely, they are two different things.

I watch these places like the old mining towns in mid-Wales or more recently Burnley, and the reason these places still have COVID spreading like wildfire is down to the work, and affluence, but it’s also just because these people haven’t been abiding by the rules as in other places. We can dress it up however we want and some of those point are valid, but if you don’t mix you don’t catch it and you don’t spread it.

As I said, I’m just fucking frustrated and it’s not my style to look for a sob story publicly so you can tell how fucked off I am with all this now.

In terms of the roadmap, I’ve been critical of the government for not having a road map, so I’m glad there is one and they’ve made sensible caveats.

They’d be getting slaughtered and would lose a lot of confidence without one, given how much they’ve relied on the vaccine. I think there would be a lot of irate people following the rules even less so if there wasn’t a credible road map out of this.
 
Melon Donkey said:
I am though so glad my two are back at school tomorrow. They need it and they are desperate to go back .
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Kids absolutely need to go back now. I was pro the schools being delayed in January, which I know you weren’t and I get that, but they need to go back now, we’re going to lose a generation of students if we’re not careful.

The reality is, that will increase the transmission again, more so than those who have had the vaccine meeting in socially responsible settings.
 
think the focus has been too much on 'just' deaths as well. Nasty virus, a lot of damage done, long covid but also, just the spreading of it, take aside the rest of it for now, the more it is with us, the more it can mutate and who knows if the next mutation becomes more deadly or as said, what if it starts hitting the youngsters more seriously, or god forbid, the kids?

That is the risk for us all really and I am not sure that has been well communicated. Do you all think it has and that point is clear?
 
The Fear said:
think the focus has been too much on 'just' deaths as well. Nasty virus, a lot of damage done, long covid but also, just the spreading of it, take aside the rest of it for now, the more it is with us, the more it can mutate and who knows if the next mutation becomes more deadly or as said, what if it starts hitting the youngsters more seriously, or god forbid, the kids?

That is the risk for us all really and I am not sure that has been well communicated. Do you all think it has and that point is clear?
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I feel quite relaxed about mutations, because the experts to me seem quite relaxed about it. The NHS lot in my family are brushing it aside as part of the course, they’re not epidemiologists but they must be more clued up than me with their training.

It is a risk though and if a mutation does threaten going back to Step 1, we’ll need a society and processes in place to rival Japan/Korea to stamp it out.
 
Posted ages back, it is a regular thing for a virus to mutate, because people were getting alarmed by the word mutation. At the time, a virologist or two, were saying they usually mutate and become weaker. However, it isn't necessarily going to be weaker and the mutations we've seen so far, have been clever virus wise, and spread more easily.

So although we can't live in fear, there isn't really anything to be over relaxed about either, until the vaccine is more widely administered, not just in the UK, (obv), but worldwide.
 
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