US Presidential election
- Thread starter PhilK66
- Start date
The pledge
Vital Reserves Team
ThreeSixes
Vital Football Hero
I don't think anyone could have foreseen this when Donald Trump was elected President. Crazy how it has turned out
Buddha
Vital Football Hero
This is a completely fair point to make and your eye witness experience is valuable.
Totalitarianism of all or any flavour is terrifying and when it threatens so-called free societies (i.e. liberal democracies, which are not completely free but are comparatively free) then often civil war and bloodshed will follow.
It sounds like we agree that there is a threat of civil war occurring in the US.
You think that there is a threat to US democracy from communism (an absurd notion, imo) whereas I think the threat to US democracy is a combination of right wing populism, and the narcissistic and meglomaniac President.
Even though we disagree on the causes of the threat, I trust that we are both sincerely hoping that things don't escalate into civil war and mass bloodshed.
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Buddha
Vital Football Hero
Eff right off!!!
The day we gave Boris a shirt was one of the most embarrassing days in of our club's long history. Worse than any number of the humiliating Cup defeats to non-league clubs that we've suffered over the years!
If Trump was ever offered a Gills shirt I think it would be the last straw. The club can only push me so far!
Buddha
Vital Football Hero
This piqued my interest so I had a quick search. Didn't find any mention or reference to Kent (it was only a quick search) but the word seems to have been in use in Britain, Australia and New Zealand (but not America) since the 1960s. The OED has first recorded usage as 1968.
Suggestions for it's etymology seem to mainly be that it is a derivative of the phrase, "donkey's years" (which the OED has first recorded usage of 1916), or that it is an acronym made up of the words: Years Months Weeks.
Definitely a word I've know of for yonks! Is there any reason to believe it is an old Kentish (in particular) word?
Gilles Lingam
Vital Squad Member
not to be confused with yanks ...
getting back to the thread .. I've seen a few reports that the police officer who died, at the Capitol, was an "extreme right" Trump supporter who tasered himself in the nuts & died of a heart attack ..
Gilles Lingam
Vital Squad Member
chris who
Vital Champions League
Money pays for advertising places like the control of social media platforms like Facebook.
mehmets_curlies
Vital Squad Member
Don't forget that the violence in the summer (remember Charlottesville ?) was from both sides, with there being evidence, more than once, that far right/white supremacists were instigating some of the property damage and looting. IIRC, the Boogaloo boys were involved and there were some arrested. As for "Americas struggle to resist communism"? Give over, that is a load of nonsense. Biden and Trump (and the parties they head) are both capatilists. Sure, Biden and the democrats may have some socialist leanings with regard to welfare, for example, but communists? Get a grip, ffs. What happened on wednesday was a group of people had been so wound up by the Trumps, Giulliani and their colleagues that they had been robbed of a fair election, they lost the plot and 5 people died. Now, lets get real, Trump had no evidence of fraud. He just hated losing and didn't like that the people didn't want him. So, he created a fairy story to make it look like he was cheated. As I said, he is a narcissist with no empathy for anybody but himself. He doesn't care that people died, he doesn't care that there will probably be more deaths, he doesn't care about the USA and he certainly doesn't care about democracy. He cares for one thing, and one thing only, Donald Trump.
Buddha
Vital Football Hero
The police officer who was killed was called Brian Sicknick (what a name for a copper!) and he died while, "physically engaging with protesters" according to US police:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55589230
Kevin Greeson appears to have died from a heart attack. Possibly after tasering himself but probably not the testicles bit!
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/capitol-rioter-tasered-his-testicles-to-death-rumor
The mrs said, as soon as there were reports of deaths, that she wouldn't be surprised if some of these crazies had gotten themselves so hyped up and into a frenzy that ended up having a heart attack.
Not sure about this either. Is it genuine? This is all part of the problem.
If it's not genuine then who is responsible for this misinformation? What's their agenda? Is it meant as, "just a joke", or is that just an excuse? Is it an effort to discredit the right? Or is it an attempt by the right to obfuscate truth to assist them in their propogation of lies and conspiracy theories?
It's getting very difficult. Everybody needs to be alert to it and employ critical thinking whenever they read or hear something. More so than ever.
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LancsGordoRoad
Vital Champions League
Jogills, my point was in retort to Chris`s comment : ".As Biden said had it been Black Americans walking in to the house they would have been faced with a far greater force and I am totally sure none would have gained entry not even armed with machine guns".
The comment by Mr Biden, and echoed by many news media prior to the report of the killed officer, was effectively implying that police officers would have tried harder to prevent black people from entering the Capitol. As ridiculous as that is, that`s how police would read his comment - and that`s how some of the LE people I am acquainted with in the US inferred Mr B`s words. Well, I don`t know what additional effort and extra commitment Officer Brian Sicknick, RIP, could have made. My point was not about Trump - he`s a twat. Because of the behaviour of a minority of bad cops, LE in the US is under far greater siege than we saw at the Capitol Building !
It`s interesting to read comments from all and sundry about how armed police failed to stop the mob. All i`d say, bearing in mind that no two situations are ever the same, unless the officers (who are overwhelmingly ordinary people) feel it is right to literally start shooting everyone (which they wouldn`t - ask Nobby) , it`s very very difficult to stand there outnumbered and effectively stop an advancing crowd - especially when the zone is spread and non-uniform. I`ve been in that sort of situation (and injured) and when people are in sufficient numbers and determined to break through, they often will do just that (ask Buddha ). In the UK we might not be the same as the U.S. (where i`ve also worked with metropolitan LE) but there are lots of similarities.
Police here police by consent - policing is going through a big change. Frankly, I don`t know why anyone would want to join the Service these days (of course, I respect those that do) as the public don`t seem to be decided on what sort of police service they want. I`m afraid to say that the direction we are headed is the French style of policing where public order and similar matters are the primary domain of separate heavily armed riot forces . Once we get there, there will be no turning back.
Sorry for the novel, I feel strongly about this.
chris who
Vital Champions League
It wasn't that the brave police officers would have tried harder it is that the army would have been deployed well in advance had anyone else had a anti Trump demo.
LancsGordoRoad
Vital Champions League
It`s the semantics I was concerned with, Chris. The strategic issues are separate. I know that you are a decent person, Chris - I wasn`t aiming any criticism at you at all, mate.
Buddha
Vital Football Hero
Good post, Lancs.
I certainly do know about how when people are in sufficient numbers and determined to braek through they will do just that. But that can only happen when the police are outnumbered and/or not "tooled up".
I've witnessed the crowd break through the police lines during violent protests before, but not when there are sufficient numbers of riot cops holding the line or protecting a building.
Actually one of the best feelings I ever experienced was when (this time at a peaceful protest) the unarmed thin police line broke and thousands of us surged onto the M41 for a Reclaim The Streets party-protest. There was no violence whatsoever, but we outnumbered the police by so many that they could never ever have stopped us. It was quite an amazing feeling. You can watch it here, from 3:23 on the video!:
I completely understand and agree with what you say about officers not wanting to "literally start shooting everyone" (certainly not white patriotic people, no, those kind of demonstators are the ones to take selfies with and hold doors open for people!) and I think it is absolutely crystal clear that the police were totally outnumbered and overwhelmed.
But the question is why? This was known about for ages, it had been being hyped up by the right on the internet for the last couple of weeks - there were even people at the demonstration wearing t-shirts proclaiming, "Civil War, 6th January 2021"!:
Why weren't the police properly prepared? We all know they
With regard to your final paragrpah, I share your fears about the style of policing that's likely to be happening here in the not-too-distant future. Depressing.
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Therealwaldo
Vital Squad Member
The problem was twofold. Firstly there is a stark comparison between the pictures of the Capitol when there was an entirely peaceful BLM protest when the National Guard was deployed and heavily armed military stood on the steps of the Capitol, and the lack of any National Guard presence when an attempt at disrupting proceedings had been widely trailed on social media.
Secondly there is the degree to which some members of the Capitol Police appeared to be complicit. There were pictures of the police pulling barriers aside to let people through. That was clearly not the majority of the Police, many of whom bravely tried to defend the building whilst being hopelessly outnumbered.
The only conclusion that you could draw is that there was a deal of complicity with the protestors from the very top. The Head of the Capitol Police who has since resigned was a Trump appointee.
Getting rid of Trump through impeachment or whatever might be the only way of preventing a repeat attempt at the Inauguration.
LancsGordoRoad
Vital Champions League
Cheers Bud, as I replied to Chris, I was challenging the semantics by Mr Biden and some sneering media, that overtly and broadly challenged police independence in relation to what occurred at the CB, especially as one of the officers there was killed. The strategic issues are separate and we are not likely to know what kind of pre-event planning occurred. There surely would have been some.
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LancsGordoRoad
Vital Champions League
Hello TRW, we don`t often talk. My reply would be as I explained to Buddha. The conclusion you drew could well be correct, Trump has clearly lost the plot recently.
