EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’... | Page 658 | Vital Football

EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’...

Tarian said:
So what did you mean by:
"Why does farage being married to an EU citizen prove that he has nothing against other European citizens?"

Why did/does Farage have to "prove" he has "nothing against European citizens" ?

If you accept that it is ridiculous that anyone should think he does have such a problem, then who was the question aimed at ?

If I've misunderstood .... of course I would apologise. :surrender:
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Where did I say he had to prove anything? Gbn made a statement which didn't make sense and I asked him to explain it. He hasn't, fair enough. He owes me nothing so that is where I will leave it. I coudn't care less about Farage. He is an irrelevance to me. Always has been and always will be. Stop looking for stuff that doesn't exist.
 
Tarian said:
Please can critics stop making it personal.:rolleyes:
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We have to be allowed to share opinions Tarian. If you don't believe that Boris primary objective is to protect the status of Boris than counter my statement.

Making it personal would have been making reference to his poor record as a parent. I didn't do that.
 
Trashbat said:
I expect that both sides will find a legal mechanism to extend the transition period. No Deal is economically bad for everyone and economic resilience is already tested by COVID. In the absence of any progress, more delay seems the only option.

Politically, Johnson takes a battering at the polls for more delay.
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Negotiations suspended because of the ‘rona. Think it makes it increasingly likely that transition period will extend.
 
markinkent said:
We have to be allowed to share opinions Tarian. If you don't believe that Boris primary objective is to protect the status of Boris than counter my statement.

Making it personal would have been making reference to his poor record as a parent. I didn't do that.
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He is a shit parent though.
 
Trashbat said:
6 weeks until extended transition, maybe?
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Maybe, providing there is some prospect of finally reaching agreement and the EU do not try and get any further money out of us.

We have waited long enough so an extra month or so might be worth considering but if it clear that neither side will move on the two remaining thorny issues where they have different principles there would seem to be very little point.
 
GillsBluenose said:
Maybe, providing there is some prospect of finally reaching agreement and the EU do not try and get any further money out of us.

We have waited long enough so an extra month or so might be worth considering but if it clear that neither side will move on the two remaining thorny issues where they have different principles there would seem to be very little point.
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Tend to agree GBN
If the two parties cannot agree in over four years, there’s not much reason to think a deal can be struck due to yet another extension.
If it was just to get it ratified, that would be different, but to continue negotiations , then no.
I was reading today that Brussels is concerned that in the event of no deal, each country will start agreeing bilateral things like aviation and security.
That would dilute their power over the 27.
I genuinely thought that an agreement would be reached but it’s looking less likely as time ticks on.
Maybe it’s for the best that there’s a clean break, breathe, start again as a fully independent country.
 
shotshy said:
Tend to agree GBN
If the two parties cannot agree in over four years, there’s not much reason to think a deal can be struck due to yet another extension.
If it was just to get it ratified, that would be different, but to continue negotiations , then no.
I was reading today that Brussels is concerned that in the event of no deal, each country will start agreeing bilateral things like aviation and security.
That would dilute their power over the 27.
I genuinely thought that an agreement would be reached but it’s looking less likely as time ticks on.
Maybe it’s for the best that there’s a clean break, breathe, start again as a fully independent country.
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My fear from the beginning was that we wouldn't be able to reach agreement and we would be left with no deal.

That was my main reason for promoting remain
Who would vote to be worse off? Of course we don't know that we will be worse off. Its a risk based decision. Its literally deal or no deal with noel edmonds - we've chosen to pick the mystery box and see whats in it rather than settle on 32K.

So I agree. No extension lets start as an independent nation on WTO terms and lets hope for the benefit of those most in need that the cost of essentials are still affordable.

The more well off can swallow the increased cost of living . Its those struggling that I would be concerned for.

Personally I will be fine, work in an industry with little impact of Brexit, kids remain EU citizens so retain the choice and I am in a healthy financial position due to my age . Its not about me though its about the UK population as a whole.

Only time will tell how it affects everyone else.

Time move on though and it pains me to says it but time to get it done.
 
Vambogills said:
Sort of. I believe most Leavers expected all the benefits of EU membership but without any immigrants and rules that were not British rules?
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Perceived expectations are where remainers and Leavers will never agree. Let's keep it at that.

Everything is a judgement "on balance". IMHO, Leavers realised that there were some benefits from being in the EU, particularly in the reduction of paperwork, but they were outweighed by the negatives which have been repeated ad nauseum (laws, free movement, cost, etc). Remainers see it the other way round. Fair enough.

I still can't see how a straightforward free trade deal just aimed at avoiding tariffs would not be of benefit to both sides, but then I do not claim to be an expert like Wayne.
 
Vambogills said:
Sort of. I believe most Leavers expected all the benefits of EU membership but without any immigrants and rules that were not British rules?
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Perceived expectations are where remainers and Leavers will never agree. Let's keep it at that.

Everything is a judgement "on balance". IMHO, Leavers realised that there were some benefits from being in the EU, particularly in the reduction of paperwork, but they were outweighed by the negatives which have been repeated ad nauseum. Remainers see it the other way round. Fair enough.

I still can't see how a straightforward free trade deal just aimed at avoiding tariffs would not be of benefit to both sides, but then I do not claim to be an expert like Wayne.
 
GillsBluenose said:
Perceived expectations are where remainers and Leavers will never agree. Let's keep it at that.

Everything is a judgement "on balance". IMHO, Leavers realised that there were some benefits from being in the EU, particularly in the reduction of paperwork, but they were outweighed by the negatives which have been repeated ad nauseum. Remainers see it the other way round. Fair enough.

I still can't see how a straightforward free trade deal just aimed at avoiding tariffs would not be of benefit to both sides, but then I do not claim to be an expert like Wayne.
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You have to add into the mix, the absolutely unique situation that the Eu finds itself in of a member country voting to leave.
This is unprecedented, and given that the Eu is very much in love with itself, it finds it hard to come to terms that others think differently.
Basically, it’s been a huge shock for them.
One would have expected a reduction in their budget due to less incoming revenue but they’ve gone all in with an increase.
Germany’s contribution will go up to 42 billion a year in the new budget. Still, they can clearly afford it.

Although the obvious outcome will be a free trade agreement, as they have with other countries, it will take them some time to get their heads around the fact that the U.K. is no longer in their political sphere.
 
markinkent said:
My fear from the beginning was that we wouldn't be able to reach agreement and we would be left with no deal.

That was my main reason for promoting remain
Who would vote to be worse off? Of course we don't know that we will be worse off. Its a risk based decision. Its literally deal or no deal with noel edmonds - we've chosen to pick the mystery box and see whats in it rather than settle on 32K.

So I agree. No extension lets start as an independent nation on WTO terms and lets hope for the benefit of those most in need that the cost of essentials are still affordable.

The more well off can swallow the increased cost of living . Its those struggling that I would be concerned for.

Personally I will be fine, work in an industry with little impact of Brexit, kids remain EU citizens so retain the choice and I am in a healthy financial position due to my age . Its not about me though its about the UK population as a whole.

Only time will tell how it affects everyone else.

Time move on though and it pains me to says it but time to get it done.
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Would you say the same if it cost you your job?
 
mehmets_curlies said:
Would you say the same if it cost you your job?
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That was exactly my point by " Its not about me though its about the UK population as a whole."

Problem is the people of this country gave Bozo an overwhelming majority to "Get Brexit Done". I didn't vote for him or leave so I could do no more to prevent Brexit.
The problem was that there was no credible opposition at the last election who promised to have a second referendum on Brexit.

If we had a vote on the deal on the table, no deal or remain tomorrow I'd vote remain. My view has not changed but we can't keep kicking it down the road. We need decisive leadership. Unfortunately we've got Bozo but the vast majority backed him at the last election to "Get Brexit Done".

the fact that no one knows what the means appeared to be irrelevant to the electorate.

Time to reap what the UK sowed it saddens me to say.

As I said in my post above I fear for those at the other end of lifes journey. They will have to live with decisions made by many sitting on comfortable final salary pensions.
 
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markinkent said:
As I said in my post above I fear for those at the other end of lifes journey. They will have to live the with decisions made by many sitting on comfortable final salary pensions.
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Actually, even in a worst case scenario, it is never as straightforward as that, as we all know how much the Bank of Mum and Dad is already used, eating in to those pensions, as well as the reliance on free childcare provided by the older generations these days.

That was the case when we were in the EU and will undoubtedly continue.
 
GillsBluenose said:
Actually, even in a worst case scenario, it is never as straightforward as that, as we all know how much the Bank of Mum and Dad is already used, eating in to those pensions, as well as the reliance on free childcare provided by the older generations these days.

That was the case when we were in the EU and will undoubtedly continue.
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I'm not against the bank of mum and dad. I'd rather have had help from my parents when I first bought a house and struggled rather then inherit their money when I am less likely to need it.

The house market is broken though. I bought my first house for 37K and earnt about 15K at the time.

I bet its way beyond 3X your salary now.

Only way out of that is to build more and tax the arse out of those people who buy up all the new developments and leave them empty as investments.
 
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