Barnsley vs Forest - Match Fred sponsored by Forest's new no.1 fan | Page 27 | Vital Football

Barnsley vs Forest - Match Fred sponsored by Forest's new no.1 fan

Could be argued that is the worst thing he could do. We've been pretty defensive all season and whilst we are on a poor run, does it make sense to go for a new attacking style in the final and most important game of the season?

If I were SL, I would be reminding the players of everything they have done well so far this season which has got us to this position and setting the team up accordingly. A few poor results shouldn't mean that they forget the things that have worked so well.

The worst thing he could do is put a similar team out as he did yesterday and set us up for a draw.

Sorry I explained that wrong, I don’t mean new formation attacking, I mean get back to Silva in front of Sow and Watson and Ameobi and Lolley supporting Grabban, as we’ve done all year. No Yates instead of Silva or Dawson as part of a 5, just the original 11 that got us here minus cash if he’s still ‘injured’.
 
Sorry I explained that wrong, I don’t mean new formation attacking, I mean get back to Silva in front of Sow and Watson and Ameobi and Lolley supporting Grabban, as we’ve done all year. No Yates instead of Silva or Dawson as part of a 5, just the original 11 that got us here minus cash if he’s still ‘injured’.
Totally agree.

Back to the tried and tested
 
I expect us to stumble across the line on Wednesday with an underwhelming draw, but if we manage to confirm our position in the playoffs I think there are reasons to be more optimistic than Barnsley and some other recent poor performances suggest.

Barnsley exposed limitations in our squad strength beyond the first XI, and in the players capacity to switch to a new system. I am not saying it leaves me with no concerns, but I don’t think it will be indicative of how things will go in the playoffs.

Performances and results against many of the top teams - when most of the first XI is fit, playing in preferred system - have been good. In fact, I’d even say that the Derby performance (up until last min of injury time) was up there with the one at home against Leeds in terms of an effective display of counter-attacking. As the season has progressed, we have repeatedly demonstrated and even honed that way of playing against top possession-based sides.

Ultimately, I think we will come up short in the playoffs because we don’t have enough quality, but I have enough confidence in the work Sabri and the players have been doing over the course of the season to think we’ll put up a good fight.

Calls for Sabri to go are ludicrous. I agree though with the comments that next season he’s going to have to develop things tactically. We essentially have one way of playing that has been a good call this season given the players at his disposal, but I don’t think its effectiveness will last for a whole other campaign. We need to be able to vary our tactics and become better in possession if we want to progress from a decent top half team capable of the reaching playoffs to one that genuinely contends for automatic promotion.
 
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I expect us to stumble across the line on Wednesday with an underwhelming draw, but if we manage to confirm our position in the playoffs I think there are reasons to be more optimistic than Barnsley and some other recent poor performances suggest.

Barnsley exposed limitations in our squad strength beyond the first XI, and in the players capacity to switch to a new system. I am not saying it leaves me with no concerns, but I don’t think it will be indicative of how things will go in the playoffs.

Performances and results against many of the top teams - when most of the first XI is fit, playing in preferred system - have been good. In fact, I’d even say that the Derby performance (up until last min of injury time) was up there with the one at home against Leeds in terms of an effective display of counter-attacking. As the season has progressed, we have repeatedly demonstrated and even honed that way of playing against top possession-based sides.

Ultimately, I think we will come up short in the playoffs because we don’t have enough quality, but I have enough confidence in the work Sabri and the players have been doing over the course of the season to think we’ll put up a good fight.

Calls for Sabri to go are ludicrous. I agree though with the comments that next season he’s going to have to develop things tactically. We essentially have one way of playing that has been a good call this season given the players at his disposal, but I don’t think its effectiveness will last for a whole other campaign. We need to be able to vary our tactics and become better in possession if we want to progress from a decent top half team capable of the reaching playoffs to one that genuinely contends for automatic promotion.
Best post in ages ... cover my thoughts completely
 
We can’t afford, or in our current position are ever likely to attract the ultimate answer. Lamouchi has quite literally ‘made a silk purse out of a sows ear’. Carvalho has had numerous chances to shine and has failed dismally almost every time. Quite simply, with our current system he is a luxury we cannot afford. Lamouchi‘s approach is all about ‘the sum of the parts’ and Carvalho’s work rate and lack of physicality is detrimental to this. Our current model concedes the lions share of possession to the opponent almost all the time and looks to hit teams on the counter. This approach has been successful a lot of the time this season our league position is testament to this and with a few quality additions will improve even further. Go back to the games v Leeds (H), Fulham, Brentford & Derby (A) to name but a few which proves possession wins nowt. Whether you like this style of football is entirely subjective, being brought up watching Cloughs teams I love it. Under BC we were the masters of counter attacking football, the only difference being the calibre of players we were watching was greatly enhanced.

To be fair to Carvalho, it is not just a story of poor performances: the injury in preseason set him back. I’d argue he should have been given more playing time, but its difficult to see how he can be integrated into the team now. Had we qualified for the playoffs with a few games to go, there’d have been more time to see if we can find a way of accommodating him.

I also don’t think that Sabri is particularly stubborn or blind when it comes to player selection. I don’t get the sense that he is overly ideological in approach or that he has anything but good relations with the players. I think he’s just pragmatic. As you say, he’d found a way of playing that worked and it’s just a bit more difficult for Carvalho to fit in with that.

I agree with your comments on counter attacking football. It’s possible to be attractive to watch, and considered a good passing side, without dominating possession stats. I think that was lost a bit in the Guardiola era.
 
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Sorry I explained that wrong, I don’t mean new formation attacking, I mean get back to Silva in front of Sow and Watson and Ameobi and Lolley supporting Grabban, as we’ve done all year. No Yates instead of Silva or Dawson as part of a 5, just the original 11 that got us here minus cash if he’s still ‘injured’.

'I meant, I meant'...'if only, if only'...if only me auntie had bollocks she'd be me uncle
 
To be fair to Carvalho, it is not just a story of poor performances: the injury in preseason set him back. I’d argue he should have been given more playing time, but its difficult to see how he can be integrated into the team now. Had we qualified for the playoffs with a few games to go, there’d have been more time to see if we can find a way of accommodating him.

I also don’t think that Sabri is particularly stubborn or blind when it comes to player selection. I don’t get the sense that he is overly ideological in approach or that he has anything but good relations with the players. I think he’s just pragmatic. As you say, he’d found a way of playing that worked and it’s just a bit more difficult for Carvalho to fit in with that.

I agree with your comments on counter attacking football. It’s possible to be attractive to watch, and considered a good passing side, without dominating possession stats. I think that was lost a bit in the Guardiola era.

You make some very good points.

Personally, I think Lamouchi has handled the Carvalho issue fairly well, and in doing so has forced EMs hand to a degree.

Lamouchi was under pressure from the word go; Carvalho, percieved to be the star asset, did not help Sabri's plight by getting injured early on.

Since then, the side has progressed to a point were we became serious play off contenders; and each and every time he has tinkered with the side has ended badly.

If he came under any pressure to play Carvalho, which I doubt, he only had to ask the question, what do you want from me, promotion or to develop the player?

Lamouchi has now cut Carvalho from his plans altogether which creates a problem for EM; does he let him rot on the side lines and watch his value dwindle away to nought, or does he get him out and in doing so get some money back.

I can see a move to Olympiakos happening in the close season; Fourtunis has turned out to be injury prone and Valbuena is hitting on 35 years old, they will definitely need someone in that kind of role.

Regarding the style of play; Lamouchi has done nothing more than made the most of what he has got available to him.

He has attempted to get a solid spine to the team, make us difficult to beat and to develop from there, the big problem we have is a distinct shortage of attacking options available.

When he speaks of our attacking play he talks of players having the confidence and courage to attack teams but that is easier said than done for the players we have available.

He has a team of players who have bought into his plans but that is not enough; we need some players with a bit more quality and some others with the mental strength required to be successful and to instil that into others in the team, especially the youngsters.

Whatever Lamouchi does will never be enough for some people; it is worth pointing out that Lamouchi still has a chance to do in one season that, which took a certain Brian Howard Clough, over two seasons to do
 
My biggest concern with SL, is that he chose the overly negative and defensive formation against Barnsley - knowing full well that they needed nothing less than a win.

Yes - we have injuries to 'key' players, but Walker, Mighten, Bostock etc are all fit & they certainly could have been introduced to freshen it up and take the game to them.

Instead, we just encamped in our defensive third and invited them to attack.

Worryingly, we still only need a point as we can't expect Hull or Reading to do us any favours and will Sabri take the same route of playing for a point rather than trying for 3. I hope not.

It's shit or bust for Swansea and I fully expect them to go for it!


What this has shown in glorious technicolour, is that we certainly lack quality and depth to our squad but we need to ditch the negative mantra, because it's been evidenced far too many times that Forest are prone to capitulate under pressure.

I just hope we get over the line and then, perhaps being the out of form outsiders may favour us?
 
My biggest concern with SL, is that he chose the overly negative and defensive formation against Barnsley - knowing full well that they needed nothing less than a win.

Yes - we have injuries to 'key' players, but Walker, Mighten, Bostock etc are all fit & they certainly could have been introduced to freshen it up and take the game to them.

Instead, we just encamped in our defensive third and invited them to attack.

Worryingly, we still only need a point as we can't expect Hull or Reading to do us any favours and will Sabri take the same route of playing for a point rather than trying for 3. I hope not.

It's shit or bust for Swansea and I fully expect them to go for it!


What this has shown in glorious technicolour, is that we certainly lack quality and depth to our squad but we need to ditch the negative mantra, because it's been evidenced far too many times that Forest are prone to capitulate under pressure.

I just hope we get over the line and then, perhaps being the out of form outsiders may favour us?
My biggest worry is that SL will play the percentages by choosing a team for a minimal loss, with a point as the best case scenario rather than to actually win the game.

It does make you wonder whether his job is actually under threat if he doesn't make the top six. Is he going ultra-ultra conservative to stagger across the line with the least risk to his job?
 
Do we know with any certainty how many of this squad are carrying injuries? I have a feeling that it is more than we may think. The Cash situation is intriguing, has he been sold and being kept on ice? I wouldn't need much persuading that that is the case. SL has experience of tournament football which essentially this mini season has been. I would love to think that we are the Italy of this one and we go on to win it.
 
Do we know with any certainty how many of this squad are carrying injuries? I have a feeling that it is more than we may think. The Cash situation is intriguing, has he been sold and being kept on ice? I wouldn't need much persuading that that is the case. SL has experience of tournament football which essentially this mini season has been. I would love to think that we are the Italy of this one and we go on to win it.
I have wondered whether it is our physio or his agent saying Cash is injured
 
My biggest worry is that SL will play the percentages by choosing a team for a minimal loss, with a point as the best case scenario rather than to actually win the game.

It does make you wonder whether his job is actually under threat if he doesn't make the top six. Is he going ultra-ultra conservative to stagger across the line with the least risk to his job?

He's only just signed a new 2 year contract, so unless there is a clause inserted with regard to 'not making the playoffs for this season', then that would seem a very unusual approach to take.

Weekend was shit or bust for Barnsley & credit to them, they deserved to win and by more than 1.

Stoke have nothing to gain or lose, other than pride - so, I'm hoping they won't be quite as focussed or have the same intensity, but equally - I want us to go and win it!

Hull are down, so you'd expect Cardiff to be home & hosed.....

Swansea will go for it, but will Reading be up for the fight?
 
I have wondered whether it is our physio or his agent saying Cash is injured

It’s very bizarre. He’s also gone very quiet on social media when usually he’s always posting Forest bits. I heard a rumour he’d met with Ian Woan at Burnley just before lockdown.

Could be total rubbish but it’s certainly very unusual for him to be out the team with no explanation to what the ‘injury’ is.

IF it is because he’s being sold then it’s piss poor from the club! To stop your player of the year playing the most important part of the season for 20 years because you’ve agreed some pre deal is pathetic and if true, I wonder if it’s somehow impacted the morale in the dressing room.

All hearsay but if he’s not fit for the play offs and there’s no explanation, we don’t deserve to go up.
 
It’s very bizarre. He’s also gone very quiet on social media when usually he’s always posting Forest bits. I heard a rumour he’d met with Ian Woan at Burnley just before lockdown.

Could be total rubbish but it’s certainly very unusual for him to be out the team with no explanation to what the ‘injury’ is.

IF it is because he’s being sold then it’s piss poor from the club! To stop your player of the year playing the most important part of the season for 20 years because you’ve agreed some pre deal is pathetic and if true, I wonder if it’s somehow impacted the morale in the dressing room.

All hearsay but if he’s not fit for the play offs and there’s no explanation, we don’t deserve to go up.

Its a groin injury

Lamouchi has, on a number of occasions this season, been less than honest with his appraisal of the squads fitness; he must of known of Cash's groin injury when he gave the squad a clean bill of health the day before the Preston game.

I think it is nothing more sinister than trying to mislead the opposition.

There is no question of Cash refusing to play; and it is understandable that he is off social media; supporters would be asking him every 10 minutes how the injury is.
 
Its a groin injury

Lamouchi has, on a number of occasions this season, been less than honest with his appraisal of the squads fitness; he must of known of Cash's groin injury when he gave the squad a clean bill of health the day before the Preston game.

I think it is nothing more sinister than trying to mislead the opposition.

There is no question of Cash refusing to play; and it is understandable that he is off social media; supporters would be asking him every 10 minutes how the injury is.
I think the club would have screamed it out loud and proud if Cash had refused to play to try and snatch the high ground in the sale.

Can’t see Cash refusing to play though, he seems a genuine lad who wants to do his best for the club having been given the opportunity.
 
I think the club would have screamed it out loud and proud if Cash had refused to play to try and snatch the high ground in the sale.

Can’t see Cash refusing to play though, he seems a genuine lad who wants to do his best for the club having been given the opportunity.
I don't think so. You wipe 50% off the potential fee if you do that

I don't for one second think that Cash would choose to do this.

But I am always amazed by just how much young players seem to do whatever their agents tell them
 
I don't think so. You wipe 50% off the potential fee if you do that

I don't for one second think that Cash would choose to do this.

But I am always amazed by just how much young players seem to do whatever their agents tell them
Sorry I should have been clearer and put in the instance that a deal had already been done and Cash was refusing to play.

It is bizarre just how much players will do to please their agent when it should be the other way around...