Brexit Day! | Page 26 | Vital Football

Brexit Day!

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da fuq said:
Pope I'm not disagreeing with you

However as someone who takes pride in knowing history as yourself

Can you not see the parallels to what is happening right now in the world, especially Europe, as prerequisites to what lead us into the the 1st world war and the 2nd?

We are seeing the rise of nationalism and far right nationalism

We are seeing the normalising of extreme right wing thought, especially in the media, and those same outlets are using the same methods to create havoc

Simple slogans
Distrust of the other
Dismissing facts and experts
Insular thinking
Etc
Etc

IMHO we are already past the tipping point
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It's an interesting point and one I have been mulling over for months.

There are elements but only elements. Trump's trading philosophy is reminiscent of some aspects in the lead up to WWI but his isolationism isnt; WWI was about major powers being in alliance, not spurning them. It was also linked to ethnic self determination that had been denied for centuries, and that kind of thing exists only in tiny pockets now; Palestinians, Kurds, Catalans.

In terms of the rise of nationalism/facism priotlr to WWII again there are elements; particularly in Trump's America.

But the intent is totally different and I think that is important at this stage (it might not be later)

Trump doesn't have a fascist world view. His world view is that of a gangster or a despotic monarch. It is an ego centric world view. He will absolutely embrace people who hold a fascist world view to promote his own authority, but it isn't a view he holds himself.

Likewise, Johnson probably has elitist sympathies that might just about border on historic "betters and inferiors" eugenicism. But his aim is very much about staying in power. If he needs to placate the red wall to do that, he'll do it. If he needs to spend to do it, he will do that.

Johnson recognises that what you say is ten times more important than what you do. He can do almost anything he likes; he can destroy lives, trash job markets, scrap the NHS. As long as he tells people he has done the opposite, the requisite press echo that and then the boomers come out in force on facebook, he will be fine.

He learned this from Trump. Case in point;

Screenshot_20200219-123740_Reddit.jpg
So many Americans believe the growing cult of personality around Trump. They believe he was sent by god. I cannot begin to fathom how they can possibly associate anything Trump does as being related to the Bible. He is the opposite of Jesus's teachings in every respect and the embodiment of every single deadly sin. And yet, this is what he has built.

In that sense, yes, there are alarming similarities to Hitler, Mussolini and Putin and you can see some of that in Johnson's immunity to criticism too.

But the intent is not there. Hitler had the Blood and soil racial world view and pursued it. Trump and Johnson don't. They will appoint loyalists who keep them in power and it is to them we should look for a direction.

In this case, look at Dominic Cummings, as well as Patel, Raab and Truss. I loathe them all, but none are fascists
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Blair was not a NeoLiberal lol there were elements within policy but you are way off the mark to label New Labour as such.
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Really?

New Labour

I would love to get into a discussion with you about the dynamics of social democracy and neoliberalism but you have proven to be a copy and paste wiki artist in the past

New Labour took Neo Liberalism to a new height

but wiki
 
da fuq said:
Really?

New Labour

I would love to get into a discussion with you about the dynamics of social democracy and neoliberalism but you have proven to be a copy and paste wiki artist in the past

New Labour took Neo Liberalism to a new height

but wiki
Click to expand...

You really do embarrass yourself at times, rather than respond to a point you want a pissing contest. The fact is everyone knows you're a bullshitting fantasist who doesn't have the first inkling about political theory.

Time for another psychotic meltdown?
 
Is minimum wage Neoliberal? Nope.

Are tax credits Neoliberal? Nope.

Was the huge fall in unemployment that was largely due to massive government spending in the third sector Neoliberal? Nope.

Focused intervention on say rough sleeping, is that Neoliberal? Nope.

Massive NHS and Schooks funding Neoliberal? Nope.

I could go on, there were undoubtedly Neoliberal policies (usually the worst ideas of that government too) but it was far more nuanced and mixed economy than halfwits who know fuck all about politics or economics make out.

Rather ironic that Bojo and Trump get slagged off for using simple popularist rhetoric when you do it yourself.
 
Been a member for years, reading this and the other Brexit related thread has amused me immensely.
Thanks for the dripping self pity of leaving a trading bloc and the wailing of some that can't/won't accept democracy.
Priceless.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
And thank you for the stupidity, intolerance, racism and economic damage :)
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It's more about enjoying escaping the tentacles of the European bureaucracy. An organisation which has defied the odds and got everything it has ever tried wrong, the ERM, the Euro, open borders, the subjugation of national interest with a sinister corporatism.
But feel free to snivel away x
 
in_the_top_one said:
That's nearly a royal flush of brexity nonsense in just your opening two posts. There are still a few to tick off though.
Glad you've been enjoying the threads and have chosen to join in. I can see you're going to be a real asset if you haven't shot your entire bolt already.
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Trumped by the holy trinity of remainer thunder-twattery: Intolerance, racism and economic damage.

You can almost taste the butt-hurt.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Is minimum wage Neoliberal? Nope.

Are tax credits Neoliberal? Nope.

Was the huge fall in unemployment that was largely due to massive government spending in the third sector Neoliberal? Nope.

Focused intervention on say rough sleeping, is that Neoliberal? Nope.

Massive NHS and Schooks funding Neoliberal? Nope.

I could go on, there were undoubtedly Neoliberal policies (usually the worst ideas of that government too) but it was far more nuanced and mixed economy than halfwits who know fuck all about politics or economics make out.

Rather ironic that Bojo and Trump get slagged off for using simple popularist rhetoric when you do it yourself.
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You do embarrass your self at times

There are moments when I think " you know what CP is up there with the likes of Feco, ITTO"

But then I remember you going all wiki wiki wiki wild west


So will just pull your pud and let you get all narky and obviously give you time to go all wiki wiki wiki wild west and do a bit of reading

Then watch as you type furiously and make some mistakes

Shook
 
Pope John XXIII said:
It's an interesting point and one I have been mulling over for months.

There are elements but only elements. Trump's trading philosophy is reminiscent of some aspects in the lead up to WWI but his isolationism isnt; WWI was about major powers being in alliance, not spurning them. It was also linked to ethnic self determination that had been denied for centuries, and that kind of thing exists only in tiny pockets now; Palestinians, Kurds, Catalans.

In terms of the rise of nationalism/facism priotlr to WWII again there are elements; particularly in Trump's America.

But the intent is totally different and I think that is important at this stage (it might not be later)

Trump doesn't have a fascist world view. His world view is that of a gangster or a despotic monarch. It is an ego centric world view. He will absolutely embrace people who hold a fascist world view to promote his own authority, but it isn't a view he holds himself.

Likewise, Johnson probably has elitist sympathies that might just about border on historic "betters and inferiors" eugenicism. But his aim is very much about staying in power. If he needs to placate the red wall to do that, he'll do it. If he needs to spend to do it, he will do that.

Johnson recognises that what you say is ten times more important than what you do. He can do almost anything he likes; he can destroy lives, trash job markets, scrap the NHS. As long as he tells people he has done the opposite, the requisite press echo that and then the boomers come out in force on facebook, he will be fine.

He learned this from Trump. Case in point;

View attachment 37710
So many Americans believe the growing cult of personality around Trump. They believe he was sent by god. I cannot begin to fathom how they can possibly associate anything Trump does as being related to the Bible. He is the opposite of Jesus's teachings in every respect and the embodiment of every single deadly sin. And yet, this is what he has built.

In that sense, yes, there are alarming similarities to Hitler, Mussolini and Putin and you can see some of that in Johnson's immunity to criticism too.

But the intent is not there. Hitler had the Blood and soil racial world view and pursued it. Trump and Johnson don't. They will appoint loyalists who keep them in power and it is to them we should look for a direction.

In this case, look at Dominic Cummings, as well as Patel, Raab and Truss. I loathe them all, but none are fascists
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I enjoyed reading that. Why include the customary dig at boomers? There will in my opinion never ever be another World War. The internet will see to that.
 
da fuq said:
Really?

New Labour

I would love to get into a discussion with you about the dynamics of social democracy and neoliberalism but you have proven to be a copy and paste wiki artist in the past

New Labour took Neo Liberalism to a new height

but wiki
Click to expand...

plumbs is right da faq- explain surestart from a neo liberal perspective? explain minimum wage? don't mistake the fact that new labour embraced aspiration and social mobility- they were used as a way to tackle inequality
 
strettea red said:
It's more about enjoying escaping the tentacles of the European bureaucracy. An organisation which has defied the odds and got everything it has ever tried wrong, the ERM, the Euro, open borders, the subjugation of national interest with a sinister corporatism.
But feel free to snivel away x
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bearing in mind we were a tentacle and used to get a say, which bits are so badly wrong? is the environmental protections? is it the employment rights? not sure how international cooperation became subjugation- perhaps you should speak with the jewish community to find out what genuine subjugation actually looks like.
 
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