Critical_Spur
Vital Football Hero
OK, 1 Loss and at least 3 draws (inc our 2-2). Paypal transfer for the pint of your choice!.....beer! (9 points). Bottoms up!
ftuttle
Vital Youth Team
Still think he will sign a new deal, if he doesn't get his move. At the end of the day we're not the ones forcing him to stay.
I think the uncertain of not knowing who is staying or going is having a bigger effect on the squad and hence the apparent apathy.
Spursex
Alert Team
Critical_Spur
Vital Football Hero
If I may just add some thoughts to the debate (the bet stands btw):
Two matches in and peeps are slagging off Spurs fans who were disappointed with the performance v City, and by the same token, they were suggesting City are miles ahead and will walk the league. You can't have it both ways. Either Spurs were shite or City were too good....it's one or the other. Second game in, it's not a gauge for any team.
IMO, we were absolutely POO, zero tactics from the off, a real slap dash performance, no leadership on or off the field. The reason I accepted Ex's bet is that PL is not that bad. We (Spurs) are not the bench mark to hand the trophy to City. We ended last season in relegation form, so the bar for other team is set too low by US. We were an embarrassment to the PL in the CL Final and were so v City.
The likes of Burnley, Wolves and Everton will make it more difficult for them than we did last weekend, just watch. Win lose or draw, they will have set up with a clear tactical plan, whether it works or not, and their managers will be proactive from the kick off. I haven't even mentioned the likes of Pool, LeArse, Chelski...
Trouble is we are on our 2nd 5 year project. Following on from a poor end to last season and the instability and trying to refresh a stale squad, our starting point IMO is significantly lower.
City are good, but not invincible as our two goals proved. A bit more organisation, they can be had..... and will be IMO!
D
Departed
Guest
I blame the manager. I am close to being at my wit's end with Pochettino. However, I will reserve judgement until the end of the season.
Spursex
Alert Team
I do think they are that good.
But I also know they're more settled than us and judging us after two games premature and downright ridiculous; last season was the season where half the players wanted out - I wish we'd got rid of the rest that do, but we haven't and didn't (yet).
When our new players are embedded and we can properly bitch about our performances and write us off, then I'd agree. Until then it's just plain nonsense.
It's absolutely amazing how far we've come under Poch and I for one wouldn't write him or the 'new look' line up off yet, even if others will.
Critical_Spur
Vital Football Hero
Yes, they are good, but the gulf was made to look wider than moses could create because of our own issues. Hence I think based on our performance and just after two matches, I am not gonna hand the trophy to City. We'll see.
Nick Real Deal
Vital Football Legend
That's sticking your neck out with only 36 games to go !!
Nick Real Deal
Vital Football Legend
Can we read anything into two of our youngsters only going on 6 month loan ?
D
Departed
Guest
Every time I question Pochettino something good happens.
10Hoddle
Vital 1st Team Regular
I agree with most of what you say CS. Your case points the finger at Poch.
Our form towards the end of last season has not changed. We have invested millions on new blood, (not all have had their chance to prove themselves over a decent amount of time) but front up with the same old lethargic approach.
What does that incredibly poor performance say about the character of Eriksen?
The thing is, to be picked in the starting 11, he would have to have trained extremely well, or at least better than others vying for that role.
If this is the case, and it must be, then he needs to be benched immediately for fooling the selectors into thinking he'd give 100% during the game. This is a very serious matter and could be the benchmark on how clubs treat players with itchy feet and vice versa. Also, for Poch to accept CE's performance as good enough for the duration of the time he had V City is unforgivable.
I'm sure many of the clubs inhabiting the lower part of the table will give City more of a shock at Etihad than we did,(not necessary stealing points) which once again, given our talent on paper, shows up Poch for what he is...a Mini Bus.....half a coach.
We have the personnel to give this league a nudge, but as I've said for too many seasons now, we don't have the appropriate leadership.
Yes Poch is a lovely guy, and I was so proud of the lads and fans when Poch showed his appreciation on the field as he applauded the Yid Army after that CL match. However, we need more than just a nice bloke.
You can be Fergie and still have harmony.
Spursex
Alert Team
A proper tactical analysis:
https://www.coachesvoice.com/tactical-analysis-manchester-city-2-tottenham-2/
The Game
Tactical analysis: Manchester City 2 Tottenham 2
Getty Images
Premier League, August 17 2019
Manchester City 2
Premier League champions Manchester City dropped their first points of the season and handed Liverpool an early boost in their pursuit of the title when they were held to a 2-2 draw at home to Tottenham. For all of City’s dominance of possession and many chances, Spurs’ resilient defending restricted them to only two goals – both of which came in the first half from Raheem Sterling and Sergio Agüero, either side of an Erik Lamela strike for the visitors. The hosts’ profligacy was punished in the second half, when substitute Lucas Moura headed the visitors level. City substitute Gabriel Jesus had what would surely have been a late winner ruled out by the Video Assistant Referee.
Starting line-ups
Shots / On target
Manchester City27 / 9
Tottenham3 / 2
Possession
Manchester City58%
Tottenham42%
Passes / Accurate
Manchester City643 / 568
Tottenham514 / 436
Fouls / Yellow / Red
Manchester City14 / 1 / 0
Tottenham4 / 0 / 0
Analysis: Manchester City
Manchester City started in an attacking 4-3-3 formation with Sergio Agüero starting as the central forward in between Raheem Sterling and Bernardo Silva. They quickly dominated possession, but Tottenham’s pressure on single pivot Rodri meant that City could then only build around the visitors’ mid-block.
To change their approach into the final third, left-back Oleksandr Zinchenko moved into a central position to create a double pivot with Rodri, and Sterling – from a wider starting position – complemented that by making curved forward runs in behind Spurs right-back Kyle Walker-Peters. Ilkay Gündogan simultaneously moved out wide into the space created by Sterling, giving Rodri and Zinchenko an alternative option around the visitors’ narrow midfield.
An alternative from the left involved Zinchenko darting forward as Sterling moved diagonally inside and away from Walker-Peters; Gündogan would then move deeper to create a second option around the under-pressure Rodri so that City could continue to penetrate around Spurs’ defensive 4-4-1-1 structure. Even if City’s personnel changed, their movements remained consistent; Ederson’s accurate distribution also discouraged the visitors from responding by pushing up.
The hosts’ width stretched the Tottenham defence, and a superb delivery from De Bruyne found Sterling free at the far post to give City the lead. Their subsequent conversion into a defensive 4-1-4-1 shape contributed to them conceding an equalising goal soon after, however; their inability to counter Spurs’ creative attackers, who rotated superbly between the lines, led to Erik Lamela’s strike from midfield.
De Bruyne soon advanced to accompany Agüero on the top line in what became a 4-4-2 formation out of possession. This higher starting position without the ball eventually gave him the chance to increase his impact with it, as yet another superb delivery found Agüero free to restore the hosts’ lead before half-time.
More advanced positioning from Harry Kane and Lamela in the second half freed up Rodri to link with his central defenders. This worked to increase both City’s dominance and the pressure on the Tottenham goal, so it came as some surprise when substitute Lucas Moura headed Spurs level.
City responded again by dropping Rodri into their defensive line and pushing further players behind Tottenham’s four-strong midfield. This led to still more goalscoring chances, but their inability to take them – and a late disallowed goal from Gabriel Jesus – meant victory eluded the Premier League champions for the first time in the league since January.
In pictures
Analysis: Tottenham
Mauricio Pochettino set Tottenham up in a shape that switched between 4-4-1-1 and 4-2-3-1, but which focused on blocking the central lanes during the hosts’ attempted build-ups. Harry Kane joined Erik Lamela in restricting direct access from Manchester City’s central defenders into Rodri’s feet – Lamela remained close to the Spaniard to prevent attempts to bypass Kane as the first presser.
The visitors enjoyed only rare spells of possession; when they did, Christian Eriksen looked to drift in from his starting position on the left and offer penetrative runs. Lamela often dropped deeper, his movement aimed at drawing a City defender out, which in turn acted as a trigger for Kane to aim runs in behind them. The England captain was too often isolated, however, and the deeper the hosts forced Spurs’ defensive block the harder the visitors found it to threaten on the counter-attack.
They remained composed under City’s attempted higher press, however, with Harry Winks’ mobility alongside Tanguy Ndombele in the centre of midfield working to secure possession and building the base they used to patiently expand and encourage their full-backs to play with greater width. Eriksen, Lamela and Moussa Sissoko rotated across the three central lanes into positions behind the City midfield; it was from one such rotation that Lamela received possession, advanced and struck beyond an oddly positioned Ederson for their first equaliser.
Spurs’ commitment to a higher press during the second half inadvertently led to multiple attacks by their opponents, who eased around or over that press and consequently enjoyed huge spaces into which their midfield runners could drive. Hugo Lloris repeatedly prevented City from extending their lead, before substitute Lucas Moura headed home a surprise second against the run of play.
Pep Guardiola’s team responded by committing further numbers forward, but Spurs’ resilient defending and some well-timed transitions out of defence – often via the fresh Moura – relieved the pressure enough on their way to securing a hard-fought point.
https://www.coachesvoice.com/tactical-analysis-manchester-city-2-tottenham-2/
The Game
Tactical analysis: Manchester City 2 Tottenham 2
Getty Images
Premier League, August 17 2019
- SHARE
Manchester City 2
- Sterling (20)
- Agüero (35)
- Lamela (23)
- Moura (56)
Premier League champions Manchester City dropped their first points of the season and handed Liverpool an early boost in their pursuit of the title when they were held to a 2-2 draw at home to Tottenham. For all of City’s dominance of possession and many chances, Spurs’ resilient defending restricted them to only two goals – both of which came in the first half from Raheem Sterling and Sergio Agüero, either side of an Erik Lamela strike for the visitors. The hosts’ profligacy was punished in the second half, when substitute Lucas Moura headed the visitors level. City substitute Gabriel Jesus had what would surely have been a late winner ruled out by the Video Assistant Referee.
Starting line-ups
Shots / On target
Manchester City27 / 9
Tottenham3 / 2
Possession
Manchester City58%
Tottenham42%
Passes / Accurate
Manchester City643 / 568
Tottenham514 / 436
Fouls / Yellow / Red
Manchester City14 / 1 / 0
Tottenham4 / 0 / 0
Analysis: Manchester City
Manchester City started in an attacking 4-3-3 formation with Sergio Agüero starting as the central forward in between Raheem Sterling and Bernardo Silva. They quickly dominated possession, but Tottenham’s pressure on single pivot Rodri meant that City could then only build around the visitors’ mid-block.
To change their approach into the final third, left-back Oleksandr Zinchenko moved into a central position to create a double pivot with Rodri, and Sterling – from a wider starting position – complemented that by making curved forward runs in behind Spurs right-back Kyle Walker-Peters. Ilkay Gündogan simultaneously moved out wide into the space created by Sterling, giving Rodri and Zinchenko an alternative option around the visitors’ narrow midfield.
An alternative from the left involved Zinchenko darting forward as Sterling moved diagonally inside and away from Walker-Peters; Gündogan would then move deeper to create a second option around the under-pressure Rodri so that City could continue to penetrate around Spurs’ defensive 4-4-1-1 structure. Even if City’s personnel changed, their movements remained consistent; Ederson’s accurate distribution also discouraged the visitors from responding by pushing up.
The hosts’ width stretched the Tottenham defence, and a superb delivery from De Bruyne found Sterling free at the far post to give City the lead. Their subsequent conversion into a defensive 4-1-4-1 shape contributed to them conceding an equalising goal soon after, however; their inability to counter Spurs’ creative attackers, who rotated superbly between the lines, led to Erik Lamela’s strike from midfield.
De Bruyne soon advanced to accompany Agüero on the top line in what became a 4-4-2 formation out of possession. This higher starting position without the ball eventually gave him the chance to increase his impact with it, as yet another superb delivery found Agüero free to restore the hosts’ lead before half-time.
More advanced positioning from Harry Kane and Lamela in the second half freed up Rodri to link with his central defenders. This worked to increase both City’s dominance and the pressure on the Tottenham goal, so it came as some surprise when substitute Lucas Moura headed Spurs level.
City responded again by dropping Rodri into their defensive line and pushing further players behind Tottenham’s four-strong midfield. This led to still more goalscoring chances, but their inability to take them – and a late disallowed goal from Gabriel Jesus – meant victory eluded the Premier League champions for the first time in the league since January.
In pictures
Analysis: Tottenham
Mauricio Pochettino set Tottenham up in a shape that switched between 4-4-1-1 and 4-2-3-1, but which focused on blocking the central lanes during the hosts’ attempted build-ups. Harry Kane joined Erik Lamela in restricting direct access from Manchester City’s central defenders into Rodri’s feet – Lamela remained close to the Spaniard to prevent attempts to bypass Kane as the first presser.
The visitors enjoyed only rare spells of possession; when they did, Christian Eriksen looked to drift in from his starting position on the left and offer penetrative runs. Lamela often dropped deeper, his movement aimed at drawing a City defender out, which in turn acted as a trigger for Kane to aim runs in behind them. The England captain was too often isolated, however, and the deeper the hosts forced Spurs’ defensive block the harder the visitors found it to threaten on the counter-attack.
They remained composed under City’s attempted higher press, however, with Harry Winks’ mobility alongside Tanguy Ndombele in the centre of midfield working to secure possession and building the base they used to patiently expand and encourage their full-backs to play with greater width. Eriksen, Lamela and Moussa Sissoko rotated across the three central lanes into positions behind the City midfield; it was from one such rotation that Lamela received possession, advanced and struck beyond an oddly positioned Ederson for their first equaliser.
Spurs’ commitment to a higher press during the second half inadvertently led to multiple attacks by their opponents, who eased around or over that press and consequently enjoyed huge spaces into which their midfield runners could drive. Hugo Lloris repeatedly prevented City from extending their lead, before substitute Lucas Moura headed home a surprise second against the run of play.
Pep Guardiola’s team responded by committing further numbers forward, but Spurs’ resilient defending and some well-timed transitions out of defence – often via the fresh Moura – relieved the pressure enough on their way to securing a hard-fought point.
vinniecopenhagen
Vital Football Hero
Maybe I missed it on here but nobody,including myself,mentioned Hugo's fine performance. He is still a quality keeper when he is on his game.
ftuttle
Vital Youth Team
So, here is my simplistic take-away from thatA proper tactical analysis:
https://www.coachesvoice.com/tactical-analysis-manchester-city-2-tottenham-2/
The Game
Tactical analysis: Manchester City 2 Tottenham 2
Getty Images
Premier League, August 17 2019
- SHARE
Manchester City 2
Tottenham 2
- Sterling (20)
- Agüero (35)
- Lamela (23)
- Moura (56)
Premier League champions Manchester City dropped their first points of the season and handed Liverpool an early boost in their pursuit of the title when they were held to a 2-2 draw at home to Tottenham. For all of City’s dominance of possession and many chances, Spurs’ resilient defending restricted them to only two goals – both of which came in the first half from Raheem Sterling and Sergio Agüero, either side of an Erik Lamela strike for the visitors. The hosts’ profligacy was punished in the second half, when substitute Lucas Moura headed the visitors level. City substitute Gabriel Jesus had what would surely have been a late winner ruled out by the Video Assistant Referee.
Starting line-ups
Shots / On target
Manchester City27 / 9
Tottenham3 / 2
Possession
Manchester City58%
Tottenham42%
Passes / Accurate
Manchester City643 / 568
Tottenham514 / 436
Fouls / Yellow / Red
Manchester City14 / 1 / 0
Tottenham4 / 0 / 0
Analysis: Manchester City
Manchester City started in an attacking 4-3-3 formation with Sergio Agüero starting as the central forward in between Raheem Sterling and Bernardo Silva. They quickly dominated possession, but Tottenham’s pressure on single pivot Rodri meant that City could then only build around the visitors’ mid-block.
To change their approach into the final third, left-back Oleksandr Zinchenko moved into a central position to create a double pivot with Rodri, and Sterling – from a wider starting position – complemented that by making curved forward runs in behind Spurs right-back Kyle Walker-Peters. Ilkay Gündogan simultaneously moved out wide into the space created by Sterling, giving Rodri and Zinchenko an alternative option around the visitors’ narrow midfield.
An alternative from the left involved Zinchenko darting forward as Sterling moved diagonally inside and away from Walker-Peters; Gündogan would then move deeper to create a second option around the under-pressure Rodri so that City could continue to penetrate around Spurs’ defensive 4-4-1-1 structure. Even if City’s personnel changed, their movements remained consistent; Ederson’s accurate distribution also discouraged the visitors from responding by pushing up.
The hosts’ width stretched the Tottenham defence, and a superb delivery from De Bruyne found Sterling free at the far post to give City the lead. Their subsequent conversion into a defensive 4-1-4-1 shape contributed to them conceding an equalising goal soon after, however; their inability to counter Spurs’ creative attackers, who rotated superbly between the lines, led to Erik Lamela’s strike from midfield.
De Bruyne soon advanced to accompany Agüero on the top line in what became a 4-4-2 formation out of possession. This higher starting position without the ball eventually gave him the chance to increase his impact with it, as yet another superb delivery found Agüero free to restore the hosts’ lead before half-time.
More advanced positioning from Harry Kane and Lamela in the second half freed up Rodri to link with his central defenders. This worked to increase both City’s dominance and the pressure on the Tottenham goal, so it came as some surprise when substitute Lucas Moura headed Spurs level.
City responded again by dropping Rodri into their defensive line and pushing further players behind Tottenham’s four-strong midfield. This led to still more goalscoring chances, but their inability to take them – and a late disallowed goal from Gabriel Jesus – meant victory eluded the Premier League champions for the first time in the league since January.
In pictures
Analysis: Tottenham
Mauricio Pochettino set Tottenham up in a shape that switched between 4-4-1-1 and 4-2-3-1, but which focused on blocking the central lanes during the hosts’ attempted build-ups. Harry Kane joined Erik Lamela in restricting direct access from Manchester City’s central defenders into Rodri’s feet – Lamela remained close to the Spaniard to prevent attempts to bypass Kane as the first presser.
The visitors enjoyed only rare spells of possession; when they did, Christian Eriksen looked to drift in from his starting position on the left and offer penetrative runs. Lamela often dropped deeper, his movement aimed at drawing a City defender out, which in turn acted as a trigger for Kane to aim runs in behind them. The England captain was too often isolated, however, and the deeper the hosts forced Spurs’ defensive block the harder the visitors found it to threaten on the counter-attack.
They remained composed under City’s attempted higher press, however, with Harry Winks’ mobility alongside Tanguy Ndombele in the centre of midfield working to secure possession and building the base they used to patiently expand and encourage their full-backs to play with greater width. Eriksen, Lamela and Moussa Sissoko rotated across the three central lanes into positions behind the City midfield; it was from one such rotation that Lamela received possession, advanced and struck beyond an oddly positioned Ederson for their first equaliser.
Spurs’ commitment to a higher press during the second half inadvertently led to multiple attacks by their opponents, who eased around or over that press and consequently enjoyed huge spaces into which their midfield runners could drive. Hugo Lloris repeatedly prevented City from extending their lead, before substitute Lucas Moura headed home a surprise second against the run of play.
Pep Guardiola’s team responded by committing further numbers forward, but Spurs’ resilient defending and some well-timed transitions out of defence – often via the fresh Moura – relieved the pressure enough on their way to securing a hard-fought point.
1. We were trying to put pressure on Rodri.
2. Our tactics were to defend and counter attack when able(although not often),
3. We were trying to get a result in the 2nd half but that inevitably created more space for City.
4. Some of the players probably don't deserve the criticism, due to their roles in the tactical schema.
5. We weren't parking the bus and trying to find a balance between defence and offence.
R
Removed at own request
Guest
Looked like they where all sitting on their contracts on the pitch.
Spursex
Alert Team
It shows our tactics and our formation changes - even if others couldn't see it and even if we couldn't ultimately counteract the higher level skills and application of their players.
As I said, we rode our luck, but tactically Poch got that and his game management right.
Next....
Harry-Kari
Vital 1st Team Regular
The main thing I took from that is that there are some useful tactical tips Poch could use on how to break down defensive formations....blocking the central approach tactically left the wide areas wide open as we all saw and that was the source of their goals.
sjm1985
Vital Reserves Team
yeah, but city have players who actually put in very decent balls from wide. We dont have them. De Bruyne and Silva are great crossers. I only see eriksen as a great crosser but he usually isnt in that area.
Real Deal
Alert Team
To be fair we have had them but for whatever reason Poch has stifled players in the final third of the pitch.
Trippier was an excellent crosser of the ball, what happened there? Eriksen was excellent at set pieces in his first few seasons here, what happened there?
This is Poch's 6th season in charge if we don't have them now then why is he still our manager? Crossing a football is a basic skill set. It really is. People in the Sunday league can cross a ball well because they practice.
Nick Real Deal
Vital Football Legend
That was an interesting tactical breakdown. But I thought Poch was clueless and had no plan or tactics. !!! We are talking chess level strategies here.
I won't pretend to have any grasp on it but maybe for each match some of the more knowledgeable posters could give some insight during the game on match threads as how they see we are set up. It's no good posting we are shite or we suck.
Obviously Poch gets it wrong sometimes and makes adjustments usually in the second half. He even admits it once in a blue moon. When Poch is questioned about tactics he acts dumb or gives a generalised answer, he's not going to give free coaching lessons on camera, I wouldn't expect most managers to.
So it's down to the experts to analyse what's going on, certainly not me.
I won't pretend to have any grasp on it but maybe for each match some of the more knowledgeable posters could give some insight during the game on match threads as how they see we are set up. It's no good posting we are shite or we suck.
Obviously Poch gets it wrong sometimes and makes adjustments usually in the second half. He even admits it once in a blue moon. When Poch is questioned about tactics he acts dumb or gives a generalised answer, he's not going to give free coaching lessons on camera, I wouldn't expect most managers to.
So it's down to the experts to analyse what's going on, certainly not me.
