EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’...

[Trashbat]

You never claimed to be an expert; you have asked the most fundamental questions about the EU/ international trade and yet you voted Leave as you thought it was the right thing to do. This attitude surely confirms that a second referendum should be held once we know the terms of Brexit (if ever) and know what we’re getting ourselves into.

I disagree.

It’s comments and logic that from GBN which confirm my belief that the general public should not have a say in these matters. We should entrust experts who know what they’re talking about - in the main.

That said, we are where we are, and so a second referendum seems the only practical next step.

 

[LSB2]

I disagree.

It’s comments and logic that from GBN which confirm my belief that the general public should not have a say in these matters. We should entrust experts who know what they’re talking about - in the main.

That said, we are where we are, and so a second referendum seems the only practical next step.

I've never been one for another referendum, but maybe that's the only way forward.

Leave with no deal [X]
Leave under May's deal [ ]

 

[Trashbat]

I've never been one for another referendum, but maybe that's the only way forward.

Leave with no deal [X]
Leave under May's deal [ ]

May’s ‘deal’ isn’t a ‘deal’. It is the divorce arrangement.

You’ve omitted Remain - I’m sure it was an accodental oversight. Would be pretty undemocratic to ignore the ‘will of the people’ which is has swung towards Remain.

 

[nitram77]

I find it strange that everything leavers say, is either wrong or lies, whilst everything remainers say, is fact and truth, even when guessing what might happen "it's a fact"
The simple truth is that everything is maybe, perhaps, could be, if the remainers just excepted that they lost and worked too come up with and support a deal, things would have gone a lot smoother.
The big problem I see is there are far too many experts, and not enough people getting on with the task in hand, why is it that experts know everything and do nothing.

 

[LSB2]

May’s ‘deal’ isn’t a ‘deal’. It is the divorce arrangement.

You’ve omitted Remain - I’m sure it was an accodental oversight. Would be pretty undemocratic to ignore the ‘will of the people’ which is has swung towards Remain.

I'm sure a lot of people regret voting in Blair, maybe we should have that vote again? lol
We've had the in out vote, it's how we leave that is now to be decided...

 

[Wayne.Kerr]

The first ever black hole image has been taken by astronomers. It will now appear as the emblem on the Brexit flag.

 

[Trashbat]

I'm sure a lot of people regret voting in Blair, maybe we should have that vote again? lol
We've had the in out vote, it's how we leave that is now to be decided...

We had that vote to remove Blair - called a general election. Blair won.

Democracy doesn’t stand still. It is a process. Leavers fear the democratic process because they are afraid that the will of the people has changed.

I asked a hypothetical, but serious, question some time back. If 100% of the electorate was now in favour of Remain (i.e all Leavers changed their minds) should we still leave the EU? Someone came back and said ‘yes - we should still leave’. Totally ridiculous!

I also asked a question some time back about the success factors. How bad would post Brexit UK need to be for Leavers to say that, in hindsight, remaining would have been better? No one could comment - which is symptomatic of how cult-like I find the whole Leave argument.

 

[Trashbat]

The first ever black hole image has been taken by astronomers. It will now appear as the emblem on the Brexit flag.

Doesn’t exist. Black holes are a myth because a so called expert said they exist.

Image you see on TV was probably mocked up by a 5 year old.

Talking on dense matter... ...wonder how TM is getting on trying to get her short extension.

 

[jogills]

This thread needs a new title, circumstances have changed. I invite suggestions and how about:

Can A Country Kick Itself Up The Arse Without Falling Over?

 

[LSB2]

We had that vote to remove Blair - called a general election. Blair won.

Democracy doesn’t stand still. It is a process. Leavers fear the democratic process because they are afraid that the will of the people has changed.

I asked a hypothetical, but serious, question some time back. If 100% of the electorate was now in favour of Remain (i.e all Leavers changed their minds) should we still leave the EU? Someone came back and said ‘yes - we should still leave’. Totally ridiculous!

I also asked a question some time back about the success factors. How bad would post Brexit UK need to be for Leavers to say that, in hindsight, remaining would have been better? No one could comment - which is symptomatic of how cult-like I find the whole Leave argument.

But going back to vote is just that, going back. We need to move forward. How much money has been wasted and will be wasted on the uncertainty? Companies are not willing to expand, or plan for a long term future, because of the uncertainty. It's already been said that we are losing £600M a week since the result. The longer we prolong leaving, the more money is being wasted. Even after three years, polls only show remain 1% more than they were back in 2016. The problem if we have another referendum, there will not be the turnout as last time. Many people would boycott the vote. That would then be an arguing point, and this will never end. All thanks to the Tories!

 

[Jerryattrick]

I'm sure a lot of people regret voting in Blair, maybe we should have that vote again? lol
We've had the in out vote, it's how we leave that is now to be decided...

Shake it all about vote?

 

[LSB2]

Shake it all about vote?

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... Okies :-)

 

[jokerman]

How about May using whatever political authority she has left to rescind?

Don't worry, I've not had a damascene conversion. I'd worry that a lifetime chance would never return, and it would seem to proof to me that this free association of states has morphed into something that it is almost impossible to leave

BUT
We've lost control of the clock.
I find it deeply troubling to have the 27 nattering on about how much time they'll give us, how they will require a pledge of good behavior from us, and how they will set up protocols for monitoring us. Expletives come to mind.

By applying the brakes
we re-establish a measure of control
we can attempt to get our collective act together even if this involves going into collective melt down together first -but an internal meltdown without external uncertainty at the same time. Maybe the big, sensible, conservative consensus re-asserts itself. Maybe VG's popular revolution occurs and the big parties collapse. Maybe something in between. But, paradoxically, by staying in for now, we get this game to play out on our own terms.

It would finish May -but she is finished anyway and this last act of self-assertion might not be a bad way to go out for her.

An election would surely follow

It would place immense pressure on the both the major political parties -but give them a chance to sharpen their profiles on the issue

For example, Boris' Tories running on a clear second tilt at leaving platform, and Labour running on a clearer remain platform

Maybe the chance to leave would disappear. I think not. We may have voted to leave in a fit of vindictive absent-mindedness, but if people didn't know about the EU then, they sure do now -and that's not all to the Remainers' benefit.

And if we do stay in, it would be as a very different Britain from before the referendum in an EU which itself is rapidly becoming very different. Mr. Nyet would have nothing on us. I do not mean to stink up the place as JRM has suggested, but we could still operate in such a way that the Commission and its friends had wished we'd left, and our friends would be delighted by our approach.

A day remains to pull a lever (see what I did there). After that, it all starts to look pretty much like living under a diktat in one form or another.

 

[Jerryattrick]

That’s not the case.

Our future prosperity is dependent on our EU status. We’re already poorer than we would have been without the EU. People’s jobs are being moved to mainland Europe. Investment is being stifled. Former Brexiteers are acknowledging that the economic case for Brexit and WTO has collapsed. Our freedom of movement is being restricted. People that have lived in the UK for 20 years ATR bring denied settled status. Racism is in the rise.

Brexit fatigue is not a good reason for just getting on with Brexit. That is a reckless comment.

All things that have nothing to do with leave or remain. Our masters and bankers will still rule by divide and rule in or out of europe.
My preference is remain but we need to get on with solving the real problems on poverty, equality, lack of competition, lack of training, knife crime, etc. There is literally nothing wrong with the WA if people strongly want to leave the EU. We had the opportunity to change the way the EU works over the years, in fact according to Blair it was the UK that pushed the expansion of the EU and many other policies that brexiteers consider EU policies and laws.

Most of the factory and business closures and offshoring of uk based jobs happened whilst in the EU and would have happened even if we were outside the EU because the same tory or ‘new labour’ idiots were or would be in charge.

Stop being divided, work the common ground. Start by ousting all of the blairites in the labour camp, starmer, watson, the list goes on.
Maybe charge farage, cameron, boris, mogg, newpaper editors for treason for causing this brexit problem lol, lol.

 

[Jerryattrick]

How about May using whatever political authority she has left to rescind?

Don't worry, I've not had a damascene conversion. I'd worry that a lifetime chance would never return, and it would seem to proof to me that this free association of states has morphed into something that it is almost impossible to leave

BUT
We've lost control of the clock.
I find it deeply troubling to have the 27 nattering on about how much time they'll give us, how they will require a pledge of good behavior from us, and how they will set up protocols for monitoring us. Expletives come to mind.

By applying the brakes
we re-establish a measure of control
we can attempt to get our collective act together even if this involves going into collective melt down together first -but an internal meltdown without external uncertainty at the same time. Maybe the big, sensible, conservative consensus re-asserts itself. Maybe VG's popular revolution occurs and the big parties collapse. Maybe something in between. But, paradoxically, by staying in for now, we get this game to play out on our own terms.

It would finish May -but she is finished anyway and this last act of self-assertion might not be a bad way to go out for her.

An election would surely follow

It would place immense pressure on the both the major political parties -but give them a chance to sharpen their profiles on the issue

For example, Boris' Tories running on a clear second tilt at leaving platform, and Labour running on a clearer remain platform

Maybe the chance to leave would disappear. I think not. We may have voted to leave in a fit of vindictive absent-mindedness, but if people didn't know about the EU then, they sure do now -and that's not all to the Remainers' benefit.

And if we do stay in, it would be as a very different Britain from before the referendum in an EU which itself is rapidly becoming very different. Mr. Nyet would have nothing on us. I do not mean to stink up the place as JRM has suggested, but we could still operate in such a way that the Commission and its friends had wished we'd left, and our friends would be delighted by our approach.

A day remains to pull a lever (see what I did there). After that, it all starts to look pretty much like living under a diktat in one form or another.

All they had to do was vote for the deal brexiteer MPs have cocked it up, trouble is it will allow the right to rise. Reversing brexit will also have the same impact, they the rats are breeding fast.
Already we have the rhetoric and threats against the workings of the eu, shouts of betrayal and traitors to whip up future hysteria, talk of taking to the streets, etc. Already we have constant threats to MPs, the darkness can descend very quickly in history.

 

[Trashbat]

All things that have nothing to do with leave or remain. Our masters and bankers will still rule by divide and rule in or out of europe.
My preference is remain but we need to get on with solving the real problems on poverty, equality, lack of competion, lack of training, knife crime, etc. There is literally nothing wrong with the WA if people strongly want to leave the EU. We had the opportunity to change the way the EU works over the years, in fact according to Blair it was the UK that pushed the expansion of the EU and many other policies that brexiteers consider EU policies and laws.

Most of the factory and business closures and offshoring of uk based jobs happened whilst in the EU and would have happened even if we were outside the EU because the same tory or ‘new labour’ idiots were or would be in charge.

Stop being divided, work the common ground. Start by ousting all of the blairites in the labour camp, starmer, watson, the list goes on.
Maybe charge farage, cameron, boris, mogg, newpaper editors for treason for causing this brexit problem lol, lol.

It is to do with Brexit.

For all of the Brexit projects I have worked on for multiple, global clients - there is no conceivable reason why they would have changed their legal structures, IT systems, business processes and organisation structure other than Brexit.

The same is true for lots of other business in the UK - notably car manufacturers.

Skilled jobs are being lost and the main driver Is Brexit.

 

[Wayne.Kerr]

But going back to vote is just that, going back. We need to move forward. How much money has been wasted and will be wasted on the uncertainty? Companies are not willing to expand, or plan for a long term future, because of the uncertainty. It's already been said that we are losing £600M a week since the result. The longer we prolong leaving, the more money is being wasted. Even after three years, polls only show remain 1% more than they were back in 2016. The problem if we have another referendum, there will not be the turnout as last time. Many people would boycott the vote. That would then be an arguing point, and this will never end. All thanks to the Tories!

Mainly because business doesn’t want Brexit.

 

[Therealwaldo]

All they had to do was vote for the deal, remain MPs have cocked it up, trouble is it will allow the right to rise. Reversing brexit will also have the same impact, they the rats are breeding fast.
Already we have the rhetoric and threats against the workings of the eu, shouts of betrayal and traitors to whip up future hysteria, talk of taking to the streets, etc. Already we have constant threats to MPs, the darkness can descend very quickly in history.

Nice try to blame ‘remain’ MPs but the ERG have voted against May’s deal. The last time, their votes would have been enough to get it approved. You’re like Trump. When the then Republican Congress voted down his plans he blamed the democrats !

 

[Jerryattrick]

Nice try to blame ‘remain’ MPs but the ERG have voted against May’s deal. The last time, their votes would have been enough to get it approved. You’re like Trump. When the then Republican Congress voted down his plans he blamed the democrats !

Nice try to blame ‘remain’ MPs but the ERG have voted against May’s deal. The last time, their votes would have been enough to get it approved. You’re like Trump. When the then Republican Congress voted down his plans he blamed the democrats !

Thanks for the proofread :) should have read brexiteer MPs not remain MPs lol. Have edited it.

 

[Jerryattrick]

Doesn’t exist. Black holes are a myth because a so called expert said they exist.

Image you see on TV was probably mocked up by a 5 year old.

Talking on dense matter... ...wonder how TM is getting on trying to get her short extension.

Wasn’t the WMD dossier that led to the Iraq invasion knocked up by experts lol? And the experts predicting brexit or the usa election or those giving commentry on socialist policies, etc.
It all about picking the experts that you believe in :)