Ipswich v Villa - Saturday 18th August | Page 19 | Vital Football

Ipswich v Villa - Saturday 18th August

I'm not a fan of Steve Bruce the football manager, in saying that as a bloke is a good man and at least he's being honest about how poor we've been so far.
This seems to be leading people to say either why is he not doing anything about it and the other half of the good folks on here trying to defend the performances.
Now Steve himself isn't even trying to do that so I don't know why some of us are.
We've been awful but we've got the points we expected to get so far and actually we have exceeded the expectations of some of the gloom merchants that have frequented this forum over the summer.
For once I wasn't one of them I even put 15 quid on us to get promoted 2 days before the TAX bill thing broke out. It's not looking quite so silly now and looking at some clubs like Stoke who are red hot favourites, we are looking good.

Bruce is Bruce he won't change a system that works for him, eventually, he'll get sacked but I'm pretty sure it won't be anytime soon so we just need to deal with the frustration and get on with it.
 
Very similar reaction on here to this time last year it seems. You really wouldnt beleive we are unbeaten with 3 wins out of 4, regardless of the opposition.

Getting to intensely dislike the start of the season. Its getting sillier ever year.

Lets just take a step back. See how it pans out over a block of games rather than reacting after every frigging individual game with the hysterical we are playing catch up if we don't win, last time we played them x, y, z happened, Grealish is now a problem ......and everything else that was on the list that was posted earlier by GM. It was a draw three games into the season ffs.
 
Poor result against a good side or a rare poor performance is understandable, but against a side like Ipswich down to 10 men with their winless run in many games, a result and performance like this cannot be defended nor tolerated.
Well we are going to have to suck it up because no amount of moaning on a forum is going to change the fact that we are still unbeaten after only 4 games of the season. You are going to have a very challenging time as a football supporter if you are expecting champagne football every week. I haven't seen Villa play that way since the days of Dean Saunders and co.
 
Oh sorry for not articulating my thoughts as clearly as you. I apologise for trying to suggest some kind of balance in the debate is needed after three games of the season. You are clearly right, everyone who dares to suggest balance in the debate is wrong and they can't articulate their reasons anyway so 'all hail you'. I've said it on many occasions, Bruce drives me mad at times, team selection, tactics , style of play..... but you and a few others seem to be completely and utterly obsessed with his limitations. The fact we're having this debate three games in when we haven't lost says it all.

If you firmly believe that Bruce's style of play will take us up, then regardless of how we play inspite of the fact that evidence shows it is not the right way, you will not agree with me or those who are convinced we are going to be here as long as Bruce is in charge.

We are " obsessed with his limitations " because we see that those limitations will not help us go up. I would personally either want Bruce to change or for a new manager to come who plays exciting football and takes us up.
 
I'm not a fan of Steve Bruce the football manager, in saying that as a bloke is a good man and at least he's being honest about how poor we've been so far.
This seems to be leading people to say either why is he not doing anything about it and the other half of the good folks on here trying to defend the performances.
Now Steve himself isn't even trying to do that so I don't know why some of us are.
We've been awful but we've got the points we expected to get so far and actually we have exceeded the expectations of some of the gloom merchants that have frequented this forum over the summer.
For once I wasn't one of them I even put 15 quid on us to get promoted 2 days before the TAX bill thing broke out. It's not looking quite so silly now and looking at some clubs like Stoke who are red hot favourites, we are looking good.

Bruce is Bruce he won't change a system that works for him, eventually, he'll get sacked but I'm pretty sure it won't be anytime soon so we just need to deal with the frustration and get on with it.

I couldn't put it better myself, as usual you put your finger on the pulse of the matter 57. I think every manager deserves a handful of games to see where they are. We will know after ten games where we will be competing this season and then Bruce may be judged.
 
Well, what doesn't work about a 4th place finish and a play off final? Sounds like it's pretty effective in this league.

What knackered us was the awful start and the dip around christmas (iirc). We were 3 wins off automatic promotion, which after a 46 game season, isn't a bad showing.

Yes we should have gone up - but as I said before, it probably turned out to be a blessing in disguise that we didn't.

Personally I was not really disappointed about losing the final, as I was expecting the defeat.
 
Well we are going to have to suck it up because no amount of moaning on a forum is going to change the fact that we are still unbeaten after only 4 games of the season. You are going to have a very challenging time as a football supporter if you are expecting champagne football every week. I haven't seen Villa play that way since the days of Dean Saunders and co.

Then let us find someone who can help get us playing the right way! We all can debate on what we think is the right way to succeed, however, what matters is what the owners think and do !
 
At the moment I Couldn't care less what type of football we play, our problem seems to be that we are so slow whatever we try and do.

If we try to pass it we just tip tap about between the defence, which Is why grealish is having to drop so deep to get the ball and then has to try and make something from nothing. If we go long we just hoof it to an isolated striker and no one even try to support him even if he wins the ball.

The 3 promoted sides last season all moved the ball quickly. Wolves and Fulham passed and moved. Cardiff utilised a trio of powerful, fast front players and went longer. They all played with a high tempo though whereas we seem to play like the grounds made of treacle.
 
Well we are going to have to suck it up because no amount of moaning on a forum is going to change the fact that we are still unbeaten after only 4 games of the season. You are going to have a very challenging time as a football supporter if you are expecting champagne football every week. I haven't seen Villa play that way since the days of Dean Saunders and co.
Great post Wurzel, absolutely spot on.

Take the performances and Bruce as boss this season.

Make no mistake, Bruce has got massive pressure to get promoted or he will be gone.

I dislike the football he dishes up but I do believe he has earned the right for this season.
 
Great post Wurzel, absolutely spot on.

Take the performances and Bruce as boss this season.

Make no mistake, Bruce has got massive pressure to get promoted or he will be gone.

I dislike the football he dishes up but I do believe he has earned the right for this season.

Dead right. Bruce knows the position he's in. Let him see if he can succeed.

It's not clear to me what level we're at. On the one hand we have a number of weaknesses; the defence in particular doesn't inspire the same confidence as last season. On the other hand in John McGinn we have exactly the sort of player we've been looking for in attacking midfield. Adomah seems to be struggling to reproduce his best form; on the other hand Kodjia's just shown real signs of his old self. And we don't know what loanees we might get in.

If we're still in touch with the leaders at the end of September I think we can say we're on a good run. Until then not much point in predicting how we'll do.
 
If you firmly believe that Bruce's style of play will take us up, then regardless of how we play inspite of the fact that evidence shows it is not the right way, you will not agree with me or those who are convinced we are going to be here as long as Bruce is in charge.

We are " obsessed with his limitations " because we see that those limitations will not help us go up. I would personally either want Bruce to change or for a new manager to come who plays exciting football and takes us up.

Yes we all want to play exciting football and go up but that doesn't always happen does it?! After saying that didn't we play decent stuff at times last year? Much preferred to watch us over the course of the season than Cardiff. Did Neil Warnock get his Cardiff team playing free flowing attractive football last year? No but he got them promoted didn't he? So based on your logic Cardiff should have sacked Neil Warnock early on last season. He was getting results but the performances were far from attractive. Exactly the same as us at present. Anyway, glad you admit to being obsessed with Bruce's limitations....if you look at the bigger picture and look for a few positives you may be able to enjoy the season a bit more. If we continue in the same way as we've started, Bruce won't be going anywhere soon so you may as well get used to him being around for a little while longer. On the other hand, continue to perform poorly and not get results and it'll be a different story. Until then, let's enjoy picking up points whilst not playing well, being unbeaten, being fourth in the league, adding to the squad in the next couple of weeks, the future of the club not in question, ambitious owners who have more than a bob or two....lots of positives other than 'Bruce is shit and we're going backwards'.....
 
In 60 years this is the most disjointed and woeful? I want some of what you’re smoking....
Damage he’s doing to the club?
Having a moan is one thing, but if you seriously believe that Steve Bruce is “damaging our club” then I give up.... Let me just throw a few names your way and if you can prove that Steve Bruce is worse than them all then I’ll bow to your greatness...
Turner, McNeil, Venglos, O’Leary, Lambert, Garde, DiMatteo, Doug Ellis, Randy Lerner, Tom Fox, Tony Xia.....

Well you can forget comparing everyone you've mentioned from Doug Ellis onwards as they were owners/senior management.
I thought Billy McNeil was the worst ever Villa manager but, at least he tried to get us playing attack minded football, not at all times close to successfully.

Dr Jo Venglos was too far before his time to be successful. I really liked that guy for his, what were then, brand new idea's about not only playing but, training, having the players look after themselves with their intake and type of food taken, the alcohol abstinence etc etc. It was player rebellion that got rid of Dr Jo.

Graham Turner I felt sorry for because he was given charge of a squad that was starting to fall apart and he had no experience of dealing with a club run anything like this club was being run. Nor of players with as much power as our players had.

O'Leary was a bad choice, he'd only managed one club and he was given an almost bottomless pit of cash with them. When he came here he tried getting the team he'd inherited to play the exspansive type of football he'd played at Leeds but, two things stood in his way. One being the difference in class of the players he had had and the ones he had here. Two and the most telling, instead of being backed in everything he wanted, he now had a chairman who not only had very deep pockets but, extremely short arms.

I felt very sorry for Lambert, he was hamstrung from the very beginning, his primary job was replacing players with cheaper versions so the owner could save and recoup some money. An impossible task.

With Garde he wasn't only not here long enough to influence anything but, he was refused any kind of backing in transfers and/or loans.

RDM, just like Garde, wasn't here long enough to unpack his suitcase, so what damage could they do.

Bruce came in with a reputation and I was expecting him to be able to sort things out and get us pointed in the right direction.
When Dr Tone said to gamble everything on promotion, Bruce should have been a loud voice shouting against it, pointing out the many pit
falls.
I expected Bruce to balance the unbalanced squad, not to make it more unbalanced with his love of rightbacks and hatred of anykind of leftsided player.
We had 3 senior rightbacks and he got a loan from Man U that he insists oin playing at rightback, that makes 4. He is reported as being interested in Hayden from Newcastle, another rightback. We have 1 senior leftback, who probably needs psychological help to get over his part in an horrendous accident on Seamus Coleman.
We have two senior centrebacks, one of whom he doesn't want to use, he'd rather use a slow 34 year old DM in defence instead.
This manager, Oh hell you've read the arguments, 'square pegs' and 'tactics' should make the points.
In interviews he, Bruce, talks about needing wingers and a forward, doesn't he see the need to get the backline sorted.
Will the only time he'll be satisfied, be when we field a team made up entirely of rightbacks.
We have some great kids in our U23 squad but, the only chance any of them have of playing for the first team is if there are injuries and he doesn't have enough rightbacks to cover.
With a manager unwilling to give the kids anything resembling a chance, the good kids will stop signing for our club.
This is hurting the name of our club and will continue to, unless things are changed very shortly.

I really do give up now trying to explain to Bruce supporters who obviously think the sun rises and sets in his arse, what the man isn't and is doing to our club.
 
Thats your opinion , others are allowed to disagree so we don't need any patronising explanations thank you.

And by the way Grahama Turner was told to disband a squad that just over a year ago had won the European Cup and reached the quarter finals the next year.
That squad was far from falling apart so we can't have history being re-written.
 
Thats your opinion , others are allowed to disagree so we don't need any patronising explanations thank you.

And by the way Grahama Turner was told to disband a squad that just over a year ago had won the European Cup and reached the quarter finals the next year.
That squad was far from falling apart so we can't have history being re-written.

As far as the chairman was concerned that squad had to fall apart.
I think the reason was that Ellis was scared of success because he thought it might actually mean he'd have to put his hand in his pocket.
Wasn't the reason Ron Saunders walked because he was told there'll be no investment in the squad unless the money is generated from sales.
The squad knew they were going to be broken up by the time Turner was employed and so were on the way, mentally at least, out of the door.

And by the way sirdennis, no way was anything I said meant to be patronising and if you feel patronised by anything I said, I unreservedly apologise to you.
 
Just back fucking long journey that is and to watch that rubbish to boot. We must have the best midfield in that division so why the fuck is Jack tracking so far back he was almost playing DM today pathetic. My faith in Bruce is almost gone now.

Gator, I have been saying it since Xmas - Jack is playing as a part LB part DM, now is it him, is it Bruce - god only knows, all I know is he is crap at the position he is playing, and if he has the talent people are telling me he has, his career is going down the pan with it.

people have always slagged me off for having a go at Jack, if they would take their blinkers off , what I have always said is Jack is supposed to be a No. 10 - he even wears bloody No. 10 - so why is he constantly on the edge of our own box !!!

It HAS to be sorted, and if not, we are gong nowhere (cue, everybody slagging me off for having a go at Jack again)
 
Well you can forget comparing everyone you've mentioned from Doug Ellis onwards as they were owners/senior management.
I thought Billy McNeil was the worst ever Villa manager but, at least he tried to get us playing attack minded football, not at all times close to successfully.

Dr Jo Venglos was too far before his time to be successful. I really liked that guy for his, what were then, brand new idea's about not only playing but, training, having the players look after themselves with their intake and type of food taken, the alcohol abstinence etc etc. It was player rebellion that got rid of Dr Jo.

Graham Turner I felt sorry for because he was given charge of a squad that was starting to fall apart and he had no experience of dealing with a club run anything like this club was being run. Nor of players with as much power as our players had.

O'Leary was a bad choice, he'd only managed one club and he was given an almost bottomless pit of cash with them. When he came here he tried getting the team he'd inherited to play the exspansive type of football he'd played at Leeds but, two things stood in his way. One being the difference in class of the players he had had and the ones he had here. Two and the most telling, instead of being backed in everything he wanted, he now had a chairman who not only had very deep pockets but, extremely short arms.

I felt very sorry for Lambert, he was hamstrung from the very beginning, his primary job was replacing players with cheaper versions so the owner could save and recoup some money. An impossible task.

With Garde he wasn't only not here long enough to influence anything but, he was refused any kind of backing in transfers and/or loans.

RDM, just like Garde, wasn't here long enough to unpack his suitcase, so what damage could they do.

Bruce came in with a reputation and I was expecting him to be able to sort things out and get us pointed in the right direction.
When Dr Tone said to gamble everything on promotion, Bruce should have been a loud voice shouting against it, pointing out the many pit
falls.
I expected Bruce to balance the unbalanced squad, not to make it more unbalanced with his love of rightbacks and hatred of anykind of leftsided player.
We had 3 senior rightbacks and he got a loan from Man U that he insists oin playing at rightback, that makes 4. He is reported as being interested in Hayden from Newcastle, another rightback. We have 1 senior leftback, who probably needs psychological help to get over his part in an horrendous accident on Seamus Coleman.
We have two senior centrebacks, one of whom he doesn't want to use, he'd rather use a slow 34 year old DM in defence instead.
This manager, Oh hell you've read the arguments, 'square pegs' and 'tactics' should make the points.
In interviews he, Bruce, talks about needing wingers and a forward, doesn't he see the need to get the backline sorted.
Will the only time he'll be satisfied, be when we field a team made up entirely of rightbacks.
We have some great kids in our U23 squad but, the only chance any of them have of playing for the first team is if there are injuries and he doesn't have enough rightbacks to cover.
With a manager unwilling to give the kids anything resembling a chance, the good kids will stop signing for our club.
This is hurting the name of our club and will continue to, unless things are changed very shortly.

I really do give up now trying to explain to Bruce supporters who obviously think the sun rises and sets in his arse, what the man isn't and is doing to our club.

I've never been a Bruce fan, although I'm backing him this season. Maybe if you tried to understand what those who are supporting him are saying you wouldn't feel the need to trot out the load of garbage above.

Bruce did sort us out in the most important area at the time; removing the toxic atmosphere in the dressing room by selling the wasters who didn't want to be here.

Of course Tone didn't say gamble everything on promotion. In fact in terms of player outlay he's spent very little since the RDM signings. The overall net spend of Bruce has been very little. What Tone was spending money on until the money dried up was the high overheads he'd inherited and which RDM's signings didn't help.

It's against that background you have to judge Bruce's squad. Yes, getting in another good left back would be great; unfortunately they tend to cost quite a lot of money, even if they're available.

As to your other comments about Bruce's selections, remember that this is the start of the season, he's trying to give the bulk his squad game time to get them right up to match fitness, and that when he chooses a team for say the Ipswich match, he has an eye for the following two matches coming quickly up.
 
I like Bruce as a man but not as a manager and would prefer a more progressive manager in charge, even though that would be a risk. Nevertheless there is something hilarious about seeing comments like 'time running out' when we've just ended a run of straight wins.
 
I guess it's because those of us who moan about Bruce want better for and from the club we love.
I've been a supporter since 1958, thats sixty years and in all that time I can't remember a Villa side being so disjointed and woeful.
I know Napoleon said he'd rather have a lucky general than a good one but, look what happened to him.

What I object to is Bruce saying we are light in some area's and doing bog all to change it.
Everybody and his uncles dog know where we are truly light but Bruce wants to strengthen in area's we are light in because of injury not lack of numbers.
We have 3 senior rightbacks on our books and only 1 leftback and two centrebacks but Bruce signs a Man U reserve on loan to play at rightback. To me that smacks of making a signing for the sake of making a signing.
We have two senior centrebacks and Bruce would rather play a midfielder at centreback than one of the two we have, after refusing to let him, said centreback join another club in the window. Nonsensical or what.
Bruce plays one forward and according to all the reports is chasing Abraham of Chelsea. Another forward who isn't capable of playing the lone forward role, so does this mean he will, if he gets the player, change his way of playing, no of course not, he's incapable of doing so.
To play with one forward you need a player similar to Lukaku or Benteke. Abraham needs a forward to play off, he isn't built to bully centrehalves, either in the air or on the ground.

It's because of things like this that I and others moan about Bruce.
He will take this club nowhere and the longer he is here the longer it will take to repair the damage he's doing to the club.

You dont remember a Villa side being so woeful?!!!! Where were you for the previous 6 years?