Your Views on Taking the Knee | Page 18 | Vital Football

Your Views on Taking the Knee

ExiledViking said:
Are you sure?
Or is it just your left wing bias shining through...? :unsure:
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You see EV, with comments like that, you show the paucity of your argument.

Stop trying to work out my political motivation and just discuss the issue, openly, free from prejudice.
 
moonay said:
You see EV, with comments like that, you show the paucity of your argument.

Stop trying to work out my political motivation and just discuss the issue, openly, free from prejudice.
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I don't need to work out your political motivation, given the fact you completely swerved my relevant question and then went on the defensive, it's blatantly obvious who you vote for.

And I have absolutely no issue with that.

Unfortunately, I don't think the same can be said for the opposite...
 
ExiledViking said:
I don't need to work out your political motivation, given the fact you completely swerved my relevant question and then went on the defensive, it's blatantly obvious who you vote for.

And I have absolutely no issue with that.

Unfortunately, I don't think the same can be said for the opposite...
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I rarely swerve responding to a question EV ......relevant or otherwise.

I've never hidden who I've voted for......... recently and in the past. However, you said "left wing bias". I'm sorry, but that's just not right. Compared to the Right of the Tory party, I may be considered left wing, but to someone who actually believes themself to be left wing, then they'd probably consider me a Tory !

Over recent months and years, I've made it very clear (as others will testify) which Tories I think are decent, and which aren't. I certainly don't lump them all together in one homogeneous group, just because they're in the same party ............... just like I don't with BLM supporters either.

If you want to ask your (relevant) question again, I'll be happy to answer it.
 
Ah, reet, I think I have your question EV. Is it:

by the same token, you would have admiration for people giving a Nazi salute, then, yeah???

I said it wasn't worth a response, but go on then. I think the Nazi and facist philosophy is abhorrent. Anyone using it is inly meaning one thing. Anyone seeing it used is in no doubt of it's meaning.

We've already established that the Black Power fist can mean at least 3 things.

- support for the BLM party
- support for the BLM movement
- support for the belief that BLM
- support for equality ............................... and even,
- yeah, I've won, as a simple gesture of celebration.

See how many you can list for the Nazi salute.
 
moonay said:
Ah, reet, I think I have your question EV. Is it:

by the same token, you would have admiration for people giving a Nazi salute, then, yeah???

I said it wasn't worth a response, but go on then. I think the Nazi and facist philosophy is abhorrent. Anyone using it is inly meaning one thing. Anyone seeing it used is in no doubt of it's meaning.

We've already established that the Black Power fist can mean at least 3 things.

- support for the BLM party
- support for the BLM movement
- support for the belief that BLM
- support for equality ............................... and even,
- yeah, I've won, as a simple gesture of celebration.

See how many you can list for the Nazi salute.
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Firstly, the clenched fist ISN'T the symbol of BLM... That would be taking the knee.
The clenched fist WAS the symbol of The Black Panthers.

Secondly, if you hadn't noticed, QPR players used the clenched fist whilst taking the knee before kick off, so... No it wasn't part of the goal celebration.

Thirdly, I haven't got a racist bone in my body, and all throughout my debate have said that everyone should be treated and/or punished equally.
To me, Colour, Race, Sexuality and Religion are irrelevant, you treat everyone the way you wish to be treated yourself. Simple as.

Yet, here we are...

You - Triggered...
Me - Logging off for the day...

And that's the reason why politics (and life in general) is so divisive these days.
There's no common ground any more, it's turned into an "Us & Them / Black or White" scenario... 😔
 
moonay said:
I've never hidden who I've voted for......... recently and in the past. However, you said "left wing bias". I'm sorry, but that's just not right. Compared to the Right of the Tory party, I may be considered left wing, but to someone who actually believes themself to be left wing, then they'd probably consider me a Tory !
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Or in other words probably in the middle of the middle ground ?
Or as some would say - sitting on the fence 😳😁
 
ExiledViking said:
Firstly, the clenched fist ISN'T the symbol of BLM... That would be taking the knee.
The clenched fist WAS the symbol of The Black Panthers.
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Fair point re the Black Panthers, but it's clearly now accepted simply as a symbol of Black Power, given that a) it's used on conjunction with bedding the knee, and b) the Black Panthers no longer exist.

ExiledViking said:
Secondly, if you hadn't noticed, QPR players used the clenched fist whilst taking the knee before kick off, so... No it wasn't part of the goal celebration.
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Maybe if you weren't so eager to try and score points, you'd have read the tweet properly ........it was definitely the goal celebration ............ looks like yours is an "own" one.
;)

ExiledViking said:
Thirdly, I haven't got a racist bone in my body,
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I'm not sure why you feel the need to defend your "non racist" credentials so robustly EV ....... it almost makes you sound like Donald Trump !

I'm fairly certain that I've never accused you of being racist in any way.

ExiledViking said:
Yet, here we are...

You - Triggered...
Me - Logging off for the day...
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I have to be honest ........ I'm not really sure what you mean by "triggered" ....... but regardless, I'm fairly sure that I won't be......whatever it is.

ExiledViking said:
And that's the reason why politics (and life in general) is so divisive these days.
There's no common ground any more, it's turned into an "Us & Them / Black or White" scenario... 😔
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I think that an awful lot of my posts try and find common ground. I'm fairly sure that MiW actually commented on us finding it yesterday. It only becomes entrenched when people won't even consider someone else's view.

Question ............ why did you post summat after posting you were logging off?

PS. I presume you was happy with my unswerved response.
;)
 
Hampton said:
Which to me is as abhorrent as White Power but hey if you're comfortable with Black Power your choice
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Firstly, :clap::clap::clap: for the graphics.

I think I've explained on numerous occasions what I believe is meant by Black Power. I may well be wrong.
 
moonay said:
Firstly, :clap::clap::clap: for the graphics.

I think I've explained on numerous occasions what I believe is meant by Black Power. I may well be wrong.
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It's not all about you mate - it's about the wider view of a significant number of people who do not share your perception of it.

Also re- the graphics - stolen with pride not constructed by me 😉😁
 
Apparently, we didn't know that black lives mattered, before a multitude of corporations that exploit ethnic minorities for financial gain, professionals in a disproportionate environment to the rest of us and a number of companies who leveraged it to exploit the message told us to.

That, ultimately, is exactly what it is. Marketing, not a message. Naive to believe otherwise.
 
moonay said:
Why am I acting think?

You think the raised clench first is in support of BLM. So do I.

However, you also think BLM in this context is a far left political party. I don't. I thik it just means that black (and all those other minority groups we've mentioned) deserve to be treated the same as "the majority".

That's all.

Your false equivalence between the QPR players and a Nazi salute isn't really worth a response. Context my friend.

I've "picked sides" merely to counter what I believe to be misinformation, OK ?
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I agree the majority of players kneeling and people supporting the BLM cause probably have no idea what the manifesto contains and all they've done - and they probably wouldn't support it if they did. They most likely genuinely think BLM is just a noble anti racism campaign like 'Kick It Out' and they wrongly assume all those opposing it are endorsing racism.

The issue is that the BLM organisation is demonstrably a far left, divisive, political movement (now registered as a political party) and its leaders and offical twitter account have even said some racist things itself. And that's not counting the riots, vandalism, looting, murders etc committed in it's name particularly in America. It has deliberetly tried to conflate a message that everyone would support with their brand like a Trojan Horse to get support their politics would otherwise have little chance of getting any traction. If our media weren't such garbage we'd have all of this info out there and the public could have an informed conversation about matters rather than people arguing parallel versions of the truth.

But the flip side is that people who know what BLM is need to understand the majority of people supporting it are not knowingly supporting political movement but what they believe is a positive campaign. People are talking past each other dismissing what the opposite side say they believe as an excuse and arguing what they think the other side really believe.

I think both sides need to accept the others viewpoint as reasonable and then I'd say surely if people want an effective anti racism movement you need it to be inclusive rather than divisive. Ditch the BLM brand and it's raised fist and bended knee symbolism and let's come up with something apolitical and inclusive that everyone can get on board with. I believe BLM has caused more racial division and set us back as a society than any openly racist group could dream of. I think BLM is a nurfarious, predatory group praying on people's good intentions to stand up against racism to play divide and conquer while accruing vast profit and aims to attain power.

If I was the EFL I'd have done my research and know BLM had seriously damaged American sports and stuck to their own rules about no political gestures in the first place. If people felt they wanted to do something to protest racism I'd have said let's get the Kick It Out campaign that no one ever had a issue with to come up with a gesture the players could do. Something like QPR and Millwall did for example involving both sides coming together maybe a big huddle like individual teams do but involving both teams pre match and the campaign could be 'we are all in it together to fight racism'. That way we can have a positive message not weighed down or compromised by a radical political group.

It's a bit like if fledgling political party with BNP like politics called themselves 'Child Lives Matter' and they were pushing themselves as a campaign against grooming gangs and the cover ups. They conflate the political party name with their campaign and come up with a gesture that they said showed you are against child abuse. On the surface level it is an emotive subject people are passionate about fighting and it would attract lots of people to do the gesture and promote the movement without most of them realising what they are tactitly endorsing. But those who did know what else the group stood for could not endorse the campaign even if we agreed with the sentiment of oposing grooming gangs, as the rest of what the group stood for was something we couldn't lend any support to. It's the same with BLM, we shouldn't fall into the trap. The people opposing and supporting kneeling aren't the issue - BLM the organisation are.
 
moonay said:
Whether the gesture itself is considered acceptable or not, I can't help feeling a touch of admiration to these QPR lads effectively telling Millwall fans that they aren't going to be told by someone else what to do or what not to do.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1336416304551653376
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I imagine QPR Chairman Les Ferdinand won't be pleased with his players doing that as he put out a statement ages ago saying the club had collectivly taken the decision to not take part in the gesture.

If anyone remembers when we played QPR back in June in the Championship both us and QPR didn't take the knee at QPRs request. QPR haven't been doing it for ages.
 
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