Ya Basta! Ya Basta! | Page 3 | Vital Football

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Buddha said:
Minneapolis Police Department to be disbanded?
https://kstp.com/news/minneapolis-c...mantle-minneapolis-police-department/5751027/


Unmarked riot police on streets in Washington DC. No insignia, no badges, no names or numbers. Mercenaries? Or right wing militia? Might as well be....
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/wh...k-outlaw-unmarked-police-they-patrol-n1225016
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Obviously fake news.
There are only instigators and infiltrators on the commie leftie marchers side.
How dare they say that there are instigators on the law and order, shoot the rioters side, the FBI and state have never done anything like this in history and would never encourage or instigate violence.

You need to see the truth - these false instigators on the side of right dressing up as police or infiltrating to cause violence are really - antifa paid by russian commie bstrds!
 
I remember when i used to follow gills home and away each week. I remember a couple of instances of being treated like shit simply because i was a football fan. Was treated like a football thug a number of times. I even remember being kept at derby train station and made to miss the train back to london with another 30-40 gills fans, penned in a train station waiting room for a couple of hours. I was a harmless dweeby 17 year old at the time. Thats one of a few examples of prejudice i received at the hands of police. Remember another time some jumped up prick of a police officer speaking to us like cnts and demanding respect when he gave us none.

Cant even imagine how it must feel for black people who get that treatment much more regularly than i ever did, just because of the colour of their skin.

Nobby has raised a number of examples of police being injured in the recent riots. Yet id guess he has no idea in most of those cases whether the police behaved properly or not. I guess as a policeman he assumes they did. I have no doubt nobby would behave properly - youre a decent guy, but you cant just blindly defend all police officers across the world and hope they are as good at their job and as decent as you. Those examples youve raise, in most cases id guess no one has any clue who was in the wrong, the protestors or the rioters.
 
Jerryattrick said:
Obviously fake news.
There are only instigators and infiltrators on the commie leftie marchers side.
How dare they say that there are instigators on the law and order, shoot the rioters side, the FBI and state have never done anything like this in history and would never encourage or instigate violence.

You need to see the truth - these false instigators on the side of right dressing up as police or infiltrating to cause violence are really - antifa paid by russian commie bstrds!
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You know I've got a feeling some posters are going to misunderstand you there, Jerry!

Good article in yesterday's Class War Daily (some of the article are absurd but occasionally there's a gem) called, 'London Speaks Up. Listen'. I particularly liked this paragraph and reckon you'll appreciate it too:

'George Floyd's death may have been the spark but this is about every lad tossed up against the walk for taking a walk while being black, it's about all the lives taken by the police. Over the next few days you're going to see the same cycle of bullshit we saw out of America a week ago. Got some footage of some black faces kicking off? Get that shit on the news. "Look at them destroying their own neighbourhood!" If that doesn't work then grab footage of white protesters and talk about "outside agitators" bussed in. For bonus points blame the nearest Jewish face you can. Always push division.'
 
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alphabet_king said:
I remember when i used to follow gills home and away each week. I remember a couple of instances of being treated like shit simply because i was a football fan. Was treated like a football thug a number of times. I even remember being kept at derby train station and made to miss the train back to london with another 30-40 gills fans, penned in a train station waiting room for a couple of hours. I was a harmless dweeby 17 year old at the time. Thats one of a few examples of prejudice i received at the hands of police. Remember another time some jumped up prick of a police officer speaking to us like cnts and demanding respect when he gave us none.

Cant even imagine how it must feel for black people who get that treatment much more regularly than i ever did, just because of the colour of their skin.

Nobby has raised a number of examples of police being injured in the recent riots. Yet id guess he has no idea in most of those cases whether the police behaved properly or not. I guess as a policeman he assumes they did. I have no doubt nobby would behave properly - youre a decent guy, but you cant just blindly defend all police officers across the world and hope they are as good at their job and as decent as you. Those examples youve raise, in most cases id guess no one has any clue who was in the wrong, the protestors or the rioters.
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On the other hand we cannot defend people who do actually hand out violence, they are a minority but help the media to deviate from the original cause. My experience is that unless you are physically there you cannot believe anything you hear, smoke and mirrors.
 
alphabet_king said:
I remember when i used to follow gills home and away each week. I remember a couple of instances of being treated like shit simply because i was a football fan. Was treated like a football thug a number of times. I even remember being kept at derby train station and made to miss the train back to london with another 30-40 gills fans, penned in a train station waiting room for a couple of hours. I was a harmless dweeby 17 year old at the time. Thats one of a few examples of prejudice i received at the hands of police. Remember another time some jumped up prick of a police officer speaking to us like cnts and demanding respect when he gave us none.

Cant even imagine how it must feel for black people who get that treatment much more regularly than i ever did, just because of the colour of their skin.

Nobby has raised a number of examples of police being injured in the recent riots. Yet id guess he has no idea in most of those cases whether the police behaved properly or not. I guess as a policeman he assumes they did. I have no doubt nobby would behave properly - youre a decent guy, but you cant just blindly defend all police officers across the world and hope they are as good at their job and as decent as you. Those examples youve raise, in most cases id guess no one has any clue who was in the wrong, the protestors or the rioters.
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Of course, I'll accept that but, if when Mr Floyd was killed, my first thought had been "well, he was a known burglar, had carried a gun, was passing fake money and was a drug user" people would quite rightly ask "So he deserved to die?"
If killing one person for his previous misdemeanours is wrong (which if course it is), attacking and killing many for the wrongs of one is as wrong, if not more wrong Shirley?
 
RIP George Floyd

We all know that the next youth to be knifed to death in London will be black, and will be killed by a black. No one will remember him, no one will march, and nothing will change.
 
alphabet_king said:
I remember when i used to follow gills home and away each week. I remember a couple of instances of being treated like shit simply because i was a football fan. Was treated like a football thug a number of times. I even remember being kept at derby train station and made to miss the train back to london with another 30-40 gills fans, penned in a train station waiting room for a couple of hours. I was a harmless dweeby 17 year old at the time. Thats one of a few examples of prejudice i received at the hands of police. Remember another time some jumped up prick of a police officer speaking to us like cnts and demanding respect when he gave us none.
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I'm glad you posted this, AK, about your negative experiences of 'police' (as a general term) when you were a 'football supporter' (as a general term).

It got me thinking a bit.

I know that I have got a bit of a reputation on here for being anti-police or always ready to have a go at the police. Perhaps I deserve that reputation but the poster whose opinion on this I value more than any other's is nobs. And I really hope that nobs realises, knows, that it's not quite as simple as it might appear, and that contrary to what some of you might think, I'm am not rabidly anti-police.

Whenever I have experienced the police and it has just been me as an individual, I'm struggling to think of any bad experiences, only good ones really.

Even the last time that I got caught committing an offence, the two police who caught me were really quite decent. It soon became clear to them that although I'd committed the offence, I hadn't realised that I was doing so and that it wasn't really my fault. I got the impression (nobs you might be able to help confirm or deny this) that if it were a few years back then the individual officers may have had a little more scope to use their discretion and deal with me differently than the procedure that it seemed they had to follow even though they didn't really want to?

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that the times when I've seen and experienced bad police behaviour is when I have been part of a group. Either, like AK (and I suspect others on here too) when being a 'football supporter', or as a 'traveller', but most often when I've been being a 'protester'/'activist'.

And I suppose, though I've seen and experienced some really bad things, those things haven't been done against me (or others in the group) as individuals but as a collective. In those instances the police are viewing all the individuals as just one thing (football fans or protesters or whatever) and treating all the individuals with the same contempt. And then of course it works in reverse, and suddenly the police are being viewed as a collective, rather than a group of individuals.

It's this viewing groups of individuals as one whole collective that leads to all the problems.

If I am in anyway 'anti-police' it is because of my experiences of them as a 'collective' when I have been part of a different collective that has come into conflict with the police.

As an individual dealing with individual police, I have no complaints and I have to say that I've met some really lovely policemen and women. I've not met nobs, but he's great too!

And these thoughts and points all tie into the larger debate and context concerning black lives matter, police brutality, etc, etc.
 
Buddha said:
I'm glad you posted this, AK, about your negative experiences of 'police' (as a general term) when you were a 'football supporter' (as a general term).

It got me thinking a bit.

I know that I have got a bit of a reputation on here for being anti-police or always ready to have a go at the police. Perhaps I deserve that reputation but the poster whose opinion on this I value more than any other's is nobs. And I really hope that nobs realises, knows, that it's not quite as simple as it might appear, and that contrary to what some of you might think, I'm am not rabidly anti-police.

Whenever I have experienced the police and it has just been me as an individual, I'm struggling to think of any bad experiences, only good ones really.

Even the last time that I got caught committing an offence, the two police who caught me were really quite decent. It soon became clear to them that although I'd committed the offence, I hadn't realised that I was doing so and that it wasn't really my fault. I got the impression (nobs you might be able to help confirm or deny this) that if it were a few years back then the individual officers may have had a little more scope to use their discretion and deal with me differently than the procedure that it seemed they had to follow even though they didn't really want to?

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that the times when I've seen and experienced bad police behaviour is when I have been part of a group. Either, like AK (and I suspect others on here too) when being a 'football supporter', or as a 'traveller', but most often when I've been being a 'protester'/'activist'.

And I suppose, though I've seen and experienced some really bad things, those things haven't been done against me (or others in the group) as individuals but as a collective. In those instances the police are viewing all the individuals as just one thing (football fans or protesters or whatever) and treating all the individuals with the same contempt. And then of course it works in reverse, and suddenly the police are being viewed as a collective, rather than a group of individuals.

It's this viewing groups of individuals as one whole collective that leads to all the problems.

If I am in anyway 'anti-police' it is because of my experiences of them as a 'collective' when I have been part of a different collective that has come into conflict with the police.

As an individual dealing with individual police, I have no complaints and I have to say that I've met some really lovely policemen and women. I've not met nobs, but he's great too!

And these thoughts and points all tie into the larger debate and context concerning black lives matter, police brutality, etc, etc.
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Well ive met at least one prick police officer as an individual who was on a total power trip, so i dont doubt that these bad eggs exist. Particularly worth noting that george floyd was an individual, maybe being treated as part of a collective (that is i guess the insinuation when saying it was a racist act by the police officer.

But i agree with the general tone of your message. It was the treatment of us as a collective in this instance that really was the issue.
 
alphabet_king said:
Well ive met at least one prick police officer as an individual who was on a total power trip, so i dont doubt that these bad eggs exist. Particularly worth noting that george floyd was an individual, maybe being treated as part of a collective (that is i guess the insinuation when saying it was a racist act by the police officer.

But i agree with the general tone of your message. It was the treatment of us as a collective in this instance that really was the issue.
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I have probably, as an individual, met a couple of power-trip-prick police officers too, come to think of it!

But that aint normally the case. Normally they are friendly and polite. Which is how it should be.

The US is quite different though, I reckon. Watch this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/52921...s-history-has-shaped-today-s-police-brutality

Floyd was an individual but he wasn't being treated as an individual, he was being treated as a low-down good for nothing ole 'n'* word.


*I feel that I should be able to use the word in full in this context, with no fear of reprisals. Political correctness prevents me from doing so. What a complete and utter farcical bollocks!
 
Buddha said:
I'm glad you posted this, AK, about your negative experiences of 'police' (as a general term) when you were a 'football supporter' (as a general term).

It got me thinking a bit.

I know that I have got a bit of a reputation on here for being anti-police or always ready to have a go at the police. Perhaps I deserve that reputation but the poster whose opinion on this I value more than any other's is nobs. And I really hope that nobs realises, knows, that it's not quite as simple as it might appear, and that contrary to what some of you might think, I'm am not rabidly anti-police.

Whenever I have experienced the police and it has just been me as an individual, I'm struggling to think of any bad experiences, only good ones really.

Even the last time that I got caught committing an offence, the two police who caught me were really quite decent. It soon became clear to them that although I'd committed the offence, I hadn't realised that I was doing so and that it wasn't really my fault. I got the impression (nobs you might be able to help confirm or deny this) that if it were a few years back then the individual officers may have had a little more scope to use their discretion and deal with me differently than the procedure that it seemed they had to follow even though they didn't really want to?

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that the times when I've seen and experienced bad police behaviour is when I have been part of a group. Either, like AK (and I suspect others on here too) when being a 'football supporter', or as a 'traveller', but most often when I've been being a 'protester'/'activist'.

And I suppose, though I've seen and experienced some really bad things, those things haven't been done against me (or others in the group) as individuals but as a collective. In those instances the police are viewing all the individuals as just one thing (football fans or protesters or whatever) and treating all the individuals with the same contempt. And then of course it works in reverse, and suddenly the police are being viewed as a collective, rather than a group of individuals.

It's this viewing groups of individuals as one whole collective that leads to all the problems.

If I am in anyway 'anti-police' it is because of my experiences of them as a 'collective' when I have been part of a different collective that has come into conflict with the police.

As an individual dealing with individual police, I have no complaints and I have to say that I've met some really lovely policemen and women. I've not met nobs, but he's great too!

And these thoughts and points all tie into the larger debate and context concerning black lives matter, police brutality, etc, etc.
Click to expand...


Buddha, i`d say that`s a pretty fair assessment. Worth considering is that, in London and other large UK cities, groups of police officers are regularly and routinely instructed (often on their days off or cancelled holidays) to form "collectives" every single weekend (that`s the case in London) in order to facilitate lawful protest by various parties and groups. On the vast majority of occasions the process is peaceful but there are still too many cases when some of the protesters, seeking to make the most of publicity, become rather agitated - agitation lends itself to news reporting more than a peaceful unremarkable event - unless, maybe there happen to be scores of thousands of marchers when the volume itself becomes newsworthy.

At such events, the police "collective" (i`m liking this description Buddha), will be made up, almost exclusively, from ordinary police officers - just like the two who "captured" you for the "misdemeanour" you alluded to. They are human, just like you - as you`ve found out. I`m always amazed by the restraint shown but, on occasions, some of the police "collective" might let the side down - and when they do, when they commit their "misdemeanour", you can guarantee that zillions of cameras will be in record mode. So, any wrong doings will be (rightly) referred to a complaints and, if necessary, criminal justice process.

One aspect i`d ask you to consider is this. There is little doubt that the face of UK policing is changing. The general direction we are headed toward is one where the police, your police, will steadily transform, especially in relation to public order, from the collective made up of regular neighbourhood type cops into a para-military policing collective. That is where we are headed. I worry about that because wherever you have a large paramilitary component of a nations police the potential for an escalation in any confrontation is clear. Take France, for example. Many other examples in Europe - where they tend to deal with football fans quite differently from how its done here !

Anyway, some interesting stuff coming from you during the last week - sometimes I agree with you, sometimes I don`t. That`s life.
 
LancsGordoRoad said:
Buddha, i`d say that`s a pretty fair assessment. Worth considering is that, in London and other large UK cities, groups of police officers are regularly and routinely instructed (often on their days off or cancelled holidays) to form "collectives" every single weekend (that`s the case in London) in order to facilitate lawful protest by various parties and groups. On the vast majority of occasions the process is peaceful but there are still too many cases when some of the protesters, seeking to make the most of publicity, become rather agitated - agitation lends itself to news reporting more than a peaceful unremarkable event - unless, maybe there happen to be scores of thousands of marchers when the volume itself becomes newsworthy.

At such events, the police "collective" (i`m liking this description Buddha), will be made up, almost exclusively, from ordinary police officers - just like the two who "captured" you for the "misdemeanour" you alluded to. They are human, just like you - as you`ve found out. I`m always amazed by the restraint shown but, on occasions, some of the police "collective" might let the side down - and when they do, when they commit their "misdemeanour", you can guarantee that zillions of cameras will be in record mode. So, any wrong doings will be (rightly) referred to a complaints and, if necessary, criminal justice process.

One aspect i`d ask you to consider is this. There is little doubt that the face of UK policing is changing. The general direction we are headed toward is one where the police, your police, will steadily transform, especially in relation to public order, from the collective made up of regular neighbourhood type cops into a para-military policing collective. That is where we are headed. I worry about that because wherever you have a large paramilitary component of a nations police the potential for an escalation in any confrontation is clear. Take France, for example. Many other examples in Europe - where they tend to deal with football fans quite differently from how its done here !

Anyway, some interesting stuff coming from you during the last week - sometimes I agree with you, sometimes I don`t. That`s life.
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Cheers, Lancs. I agree with a lot of that.

I think what you say in your first paragraph is valid but I would counter that by offering the example of undercover police infiltration into peaceful non-violent environmentalist protest groups. Yes, sometimes the protesters might agitate in an effort to seek publicity but sometimes the police can provoke things too.

And I agree with your second paragraph too, though again, I'd point out that it works both ways.

Your third paragraph, yes, complete agreement with your analysis and I share your fears.
 

That's interesting, Gilles. Yes, suppose I was making a bit of an assumption before.

Though there's no suggestion that they knew each other and racists will often claim that, 'they all look the same", anyway! Even if Chauvin aint guilty of thinking like that it's likely, I'd guess, that he didn't really properly recognise Floyd.

Not unless he did and this was actually something personal. But that's not what you were suggesting, was it?
 
Buddha said:
they all look the same", anyway!
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The cops didn't look the same to me , only two of the four were white*

* Two were privileged and two weren't if it makes it easier for you to understand.
Race/skin colour is just the excuse , because the left don't want Trump winning in November and believe that a summer of rioting might help their cause.
 
valenciagill said:
The cops didn't look the same to me , only two of the four were white*

* Two were privileged and two weren't if it makes it easier for you to understand.
Race/skin colour is just the excuse , because the left don't want Trump winning in November and believe that a summer of rioting might help their cause.
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We've had a few years now of the right swaggering around in smug frenzy of populist arrogance.

I'm getting the impression the mood might be starting to change. The right will fight dirty and it seems you're already gearing up for the fight. We will just have to wait and see. Hopefully good will prevail and the dark side will be defeated. If we can just keep exposing it to the light, the power will erode...
 
Buddha said:
We've had a few years now of the right swaggering around in smug frenzy of populist arrogance.

I'm getting the impression the mood might be starting to change. The right will fight dirty and it seems you're already gearing up for the fight. We will just have to wait and see. Hopefully good will prevail and the dark side will be defeated. If we can just keep exposing it to the light, the power will erode...
Click to expand...

Where the fcuk is Wayne , when we need one of his predictions 😂
 
Buddha said:
I'm glad you posted this, AK, about your negative experiences of 'police' (as a general term) when you were a 'football supporter' (as a general term).

It got me thinking a bit.

I know that I have got a bit of a reputation on here for being anti-police or always ready to have a go at the police. Perhaps I deserve that reputation but the poster whose opinion on this I value more than any other's is nobs. And I really hope that nobs realises, knows, that it's not quite as simple as it might appear, and that contrary to what some of you might think, I'm am not rabidly anti-police.

Whenever I have experienced the police and it has just been me as an individual, I'm struggling to think of any bad experiences, only good ones really.

Even the last time that I got caught committing an offence, the two police who caught me were really quite decent. It soon became clear to them that although I'd committed the offence, I hadn't realised that I was doing so and that it wasn't really my fault. I got the impression (nobs you might be able to help confirm or deny this) that if it were a few years back then the individual officers may have had a little more scope to use their discretion and deal with me differently than the procedure that it seemed they had to follow even though they didn't really want to?

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that the times when I've seen and experienced bad police behaviour is when I have been part of a group. Either, like AK (and I suspect others on here too) when being a 'football supporter', or as a 'traveller', but most often when I've been being a 'protester'/'activist'.

And I suppose, though I've seen and experienced some really bad things, those things haven't been done against me (or others in the group) as individuals but as a collective. In those instances the police are viewing all the individuals as just one thing (football fans or protesters or whatever) and treating all the individuals with the same contempt. And then of course it works in reverse, and suddenly the police are being viewed as a collective, rather than a group of individuals.

It's this viewing groups of individuals as one whole collective that leads to all the problems.

If I am in anyway 'anti-police' it is because of my experiences of them as a 'collective' when I have been part of a different collective that has come into conflict with the police.

As an individual dealing with individual police, I have no complaints and I have to say that I've met some really lovely policemen and women. I've not met nobs, but he's great too!

And these thoughts and points all tie into the larger debate and context concerning black lives matter, police brutality, etc, etc.
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Thanks Bud, I love you too 😘
I would add just a couple of things. When you say Police act differently as a collective towards another collective you are right but in just as many occasions, it is in reaction to the other collective's behaviour, thats only human nature. (I'll bet at times when you've been treated badly, it has resulted in your collective generally kicking off? Not having a dig, frustration at being unfairly treated can cause the most mild mannered to get angry.)
Let me use Wednesday as an example. It all started generally good natured, as I mentioned on the day, I actually had some good chats with some of the protestors near Hyde Park who all agreed that police brutality was all about a minority letting everyone down. One even sympathised with us that our "rep" had been tarnished by an unknown officer from the other side of the Atlantic.
Fast forward a couple of hours when they converged on Downing Street and cries of "Fuck the police" started, bottles of piss were thrown over the gates at the armed officers and a couple broke through the temporary barriers for a brief fisticuffs with the unarmed lads.
It then obviously kicked off whilst police attempted to get back order and make arrests.
What gets lost here is that the police are acting against a "collective" of largely black people but not because they are black, but because they are acting violently. When the student march first came to Whitehall, the police got involved, not because they were students or "crusties" but because they were damaging property and setting fire to police vehicles.
Yes, there are bad eggs, yes there are pricks but, as Lancs says, these days there is as much time spent on investigating these as there is criminals. You honestly wouldn't believe how many ongoing investigations there are into police officers for infractions of varying degrees. (The most common way to lose your job in the police at the moment is incivility) You'd be right to think this is a massive strain on time and financial resources but "The job" are determined to make sure they are transparent and honest in tracking these people down.
I honestly think the police in this country are amongst the best, if not THE best in the world and reading your posts, compared to some you would written 12 or 13 years ago when we first "met" on the old board, sort of confirms that they are improving.
 
Nobby_66 said:
I honestly think the police in this country are amongst the best, if not THE best in the world and reading your posts, compared to some you would written 12 or 13 years ago when we first "met" on the old board, sort of confirms that they are improving.
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Or that I'm getting older and mellowing with age, lol!

I agree though, I also think that the police in this country are among the best police in the world.

I'm still of the opinion though, that in an ideal society there would be no need for any police. When and where there is need for police in society, it is proof to me that society is failing.
 
Buddha said:
Or that I'm getting older and mellowing with age, lol!

I agree though, I also think that the police in this country are among the best police in the world.

I'm still of the opinion though, that in an ideal society there would be no need for any police. When and where there is need for police in society, it is proof to me that society is failing.
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It is......but it keeps me in a job 🙄
 
Buddha said:
That's interesting, Gilles. Yes, suppose I was making a bit of an assumption before.

Though there's no suggestion that they knew each other and racists will often claim that, 'they all look the same", anyway! Even if Chauvin aint guilty of thinking like that it's likely, I'd guess, that he didn't really properly recognise Floyd.

Not unless he did and this was actually something personal. But that's not what you were suggesting, was it?
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No - I'm sorry, in trying to correct my post, I deleted it & the replacement edited version seems to heve been "lost in the post" ....
I was just saying that I'd seen a couple of articles stating, by strange co-incidence, that they'd (Chauvin & Floyd) had worked as security at the same place, altho' probably didn't know each other, as Chauvin worked outside, & Floyd in ...

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/29/...r-derek-chauvin-security-club-trnd/index.html
 
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