WW3? | Page 257 | Vital Football

WW3?

wittonite said:
No fuckin chance. The Russian don't have to be fought in Europe. When and if Europe gets it's arse into gear and properly funds it's military Russia will melt away. Not even Putin, as barmy as he is, would go up against a united Europe backed by the US. If Putin did push into a NATO country we are duty bound to commit troops in that scenario, but under no circumstances otherwise.
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I either watched a video or read something recently that the Soviets built their army to be defensive. They analyzed what happened after WWII and pledged to prevent that from happening again. The plan was to just overwhelm European armies with numbers. That's why they have so much equipment and why they have so much old rubbish in reserve that they've started to throw at Ukraine.

Its not necessarily built to win a war it's built to stop US reinforcements landing in ports in Western Europe. The Soviets knew they couldn't beat the States in a conventional war, hence the allowance in their military doctrine to use "strategic" nukes on the battlefield. They wouldn't have had the time to regroup and repair equipment, they needed something else ready to go and take over. Same with the military conscripts, they needed to know simply things that they could easily remember. All just designed to be a meatgrinder.

The big issue is the Russians are not the Soviets, they're woefully inadequate and I am sure Stalin and the boys are rolling in their graves. Russia has basically rolled this doctrine out on a small scale in Ukraine and its basically a match in land warfare but add in 5th generation US airpower and its game over. The US hasn't even given Ukraine its best stuff.

I think the Soviets said they had to get to France or Spain within 72 hours or the US would be able to land troops and push them back.
 
danvilla2 said:
I’ll set up a GoFundMe page for you mate, we’ll have you landing in Heathrow by the weekend.

If I’m going onto the front line with anyone from this forum col, it’s you.
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Funny how we interpret each other on here.

Trust me. I'm stupid. I fell off a long boat yesterday. I'm clumsy. I would be terrible. Plus I would probably shit myself the most out of everyone.
 
CDX_EIRE said:
I either watched a video or read something recently that the Soviets built their army to be defensive. They analyzed what happened after WWII and pledged to prevent that from happening again. The plan was to just overwhelm European armies with numbers. That's why they have so much equipment and why they have so much old rubbish in reserve that they've started to throw at Ukraine.

Its not necessarily built to win a war it's built to stop US reinforcements landing in ports in Western Europe. The Soviets knew they couldn't beat the States in a conventional war, hence the allowance in their military doctrine to use "strategic" nukes on the battlefield. They wouldn't have had the time to regroup and repair equipment, they needed something else ready to go and take over. Same with the military conscripts, they needed to know simply things that they could easily remember. All just designed to be a meatgrinder.

The big issue is the Russians are not the Soviets, they're woefully inadequate and I am sure Stalin and the boys are rolling in their graves. Russia has basically rolled this doctrine out on a small scale in Ukraine and its basically a match in land warfare but add in 5th generation US airpower and its game over. The US hasn't even given Ukraine its best stuff.

I think the Soviets said they had to get to France or Spain within 72 hours or the US would be able to land troops and push them back.
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My concern is that inspite of NATO and Americas pledge to support Europe I am beginning to wonder whether they would become involved.

Plenty of Republicans are now opposed to further support for Ukraine and God forbid but if Trump becomes President with his, "America First" policy I could see him asking what's in it for us in supporting Europe?

If there's war in Europe don't bank on Americas involvement or support. Especially if the Republicans are running the US.
 
This is the problem with blindly following the yanks, they will leave you up shits creek without a paddle once they get bored or it becomes politically infeasible for them to continue.

As soon as America bows out it should be a matter of going straight to the negotiating table and this should be forced by “Europe” rather than propping up a war which will go on for decades.
 
If Russia attacked Europe they would eventually have to go through Germany to reach the ports and cut off supplies from the U.S.
Poland is building up a large army, bigger than ours, and one of the main weaknesses from a defensive point of view is the so called Fulda gap on the German plain. If Europe decides to create an integrated army the Germans would need to be at the core of it. That would be expensive.
We would be a staging post for the Americans. At the moment we’d struggle to supply one fully equipped, all arms division.
 
ironside said:
If Russia attacked Europe they would eventually have to go through Germany to reach the ports and cut off supplies from the U.S.
Poland is building up a large army, bigger than ours, and one of the main weaknesses from a defensive point of view is the so called Fulda gap on the German plain. If Europe decides to create an integrated army the Germans would need to be at the core of it. That would be expensive.
We would be a staging post for the Americans. At the moment we’d struggle to supply one fully equipped, all arms division.
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Excellent article that lays bare what the outcome of losing US support for the war would mean.
www.rusi.org

What Ukraine's Defeat Would Mean for the US, Europe and the World

Given the difficulties facing the US and EU in securing buy-in for the latest round of assistance to Ukraine, it is worth considering the consequences that a Russian victory would entail.
www.rusi.org www.rusi.org
 
ironside said:
If Russia attacked Europe they would eventually have to go through Germany to reach the ports and cut off supplies from the U.S.
Poland is building up a large army, bigger than ours, and one of the main weaknesses from a defensive point of view is the so called Fulda gap on the German plain. If Europe decides to create an integrated army the Germans would need to be at the core of it. That would be expensive.
We would be a staging post for the Americans. At the moment we’d struggle to supply one fully equipped, all arms division.
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Russia is a country of 150m people with an economy the size of the Netherlands. We don't need to be afraid of confronting them if necessary.

Still, we should be working towards a strategic partnership with them. We need their gas and natural resources and they need our money. There is no reason for us to be at war with them apart from the CIA thinks it's a good idea.
 
BodyButter said:
Russia is a country of 150m people with an economy the size of the Netherlands. We don't need to be afraid of confronting them if necessary.

Still, we should be working towards a strategic partnership with them. We need their gas and natural resources and they need our money. There is no reason for us to be at war with them apart from the CIA thinks it's a good idea.
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You missed out the fact that the mad man that is Putin also thinks it's a good idea.
 
BodyButter said:
We forced his hand.
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Yes, your correct re NATO expansion but agreements work both ways. He's still a mad man.
"By signing the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances in 1994, the Russian Federation promised not to threaten or use military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan. As a result of this and other agreements, Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons and acceded to the Non-Proliferation Treaty as a non-nuclear state. It is now paying the price for trusting Russia to honor its international commitments."
 
wittonite said:
Yes, your correct re NATO expansion but agreements work both ways. He's still a mad man.
"By signing the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances in 1994, the Russian Federation promised not to threaten or use military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan. As a result of this and other agreements, Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons and acceded to the Non-Proliferation Treaty as a non-nuclear state. It is now paying the price for trusting Russia to honor its international commitments."
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We agreed to two agreements (Minsk 1 and 2) saying that Ukraine wouldn't join NATO or the EU and the two eastern provinces would have some kind of federal government. We didn't honour either.

Russia invaded after Zelensky started talking about joining NATO and the EU.

If you back a rat into a corner and then it attacks you, whose fault is it?
 
BodyButter said:
We agreed to two agreements (Minsk 1 and 2) saying that Ukraine wouldn't join NATO or the EU and the two eastern provinces would have some kind of federal government. We didn't honour either.

Russia invaded after Zelensky started talking about joining NATO and the EU.

If you back a rat into a corner and then it attacks you, whose fault is it?
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The rats for being a rat.😂😂
 
BodyButter said:
We agreed to two agreements (Minsk 1 and 2) saying that Ukraine wouldn't join NATO or the EU and the two eastern provinces would have some kind of federal government. We didn't honour either.

Russia invaded after Zelensky started talking about joining NATO and the EU.

If you back a rat into a corner and then it attacks you, whose fault is it?
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Agree about EU membership. It's an expansionist organization that needs a reality check.
 
BodyButter said:
It's a strange one. I can't think of an economic reason why the EU would want the poorest country in Europe with really terrible demographics (before the war) joining. Their GDP per capita was the same as Somalia before the war. It has to be much worse now.
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Yes exactly. It's also got the likes of Hungary and Poland who quite clearly don't share the EUs political direction and are trying to usurp the judiciary for controlling purposes, and are in it only for the money it offers.
 
BodyButter said:
We agreed to two agreements (Minsk 1 and 2) saying that Ukraine wouldn't join NATO or the EU and the two eastern provinces would have some kind of federal government. We didn't honour either.

Russia invaded after Zelensky started talking about joining NATO and the EU.

If you back a rat into a corner and then it attacks you, whose fault is it?
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we didn't honour them ?
Russia ignored the 'agreements' and continued the ongoing fighting with their forces in Donbas.

Nonsense to suggest that poor old Vlad has been 'forced' to do anything tbh
 
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