Wigun v Wikum

[Pubey]

Come on lad, I take you watch almost every game? We've been taking set pieces like that for months no matter what the weather conditions.

There's loads of statistical work that suggests that short corners/set pieces lead to better xG etc. I appreciate that goes against what we want to see in the matches, and my personal view is to mix it up so that you give the opposition different things to worry about. On Tuesday, to be fair, we often took a long corner dropped right on the keeper in the 6 yard box because of the windy conditions.

Maloney is clearly wanting us to keep the ball and not give it away cheaply, where teams can then threaten us in a counter-attack. I think he sees that as a particular vulnerability that we have.

 

[Frank Bullitt]

There's loads of statistical work that suggests that short corners/set pieces lead to better xG etc. I appreciate that goes against what we want to see in the matches, and my personal view is to mix it up so that you give the opposition different things to worry about. On Tuesday, to be fair, we often took a long corner dropped right on the keeper in the 6 yard box because of the windy conditions.

Maloney is clearly wanting us to keep the ball and not give it away cheaply, where teams can then threaten us in a counter-attack. I think he sees that as a particular vulnerability that we have.

Sorry but don't agree, its the all round tactics from Maloney that are making us vulnerable, like I say the tactics are making the players nervous half the time they look as though they don't know what to do next.

 

[moonay]

Sorry but don't agree, its the all round tactics from Maloney that are making us vulnerable, like I say the tactics are making the players nervous half the time they look as though they don't know what to do next.

I'll bet that his instructions are:
1. If you have the ball, pass it to someone, try not to just hoof it.
2. If you don't have the ball, get into a position where you can receive it.

I'm not sure why any player would be confused by that.

 

[Roy Race]

Yet people insist its the players and not the managers tactics that's at fault, what a load of bollocks!

Tinkerbells tactics have got the players nervous bloody wrecks, the players are playing to the managers instructions or I'm 100% sure he would put a stop to it.

I'm sure it's the tactics rather than the grumbling and moaning from the stands every time we look to play it out from the back that makes the players nervous

 

[Pubey]

Sorry but don't agree, its the all round tactics from Maloney that are making us vulnerable, like I say the tactics are making the players nervous half the time they look as though they don't know what to do next.

how are we vulnerable? we've only conceded 2 goals in the last 5 league games.

Maloney has done a great job at making us difficult to score against and beat. The problem is then ensuring we create enough chances to win matches, especially away from home.

 

[Thedriver]

anyone else think that this game only opened up once the new Callum Mcmananman came on.

Felt it was a stone wall pen, and of course his turns that enable the cross to Hughes is perfect.

 

[St. Column Major]

I'll bet that his instructions are:
1. If you have the ball, pass it to someone, try not to just hoof it.
2. If you don't have the ball, get into a position where you can receive it.

I'm not sure why any player would be confused by that.

If they aren't confused with those instructions why is your point 2 not implemented, are you saying they all ignore the manager, it is the biggest thing we are guilty of not doing as a SQUAD whoever plays.

 

[moonay]

Ignore, no. Continually do it successfully, also no. Not try hard enough, maybe.

 

[St. Column Major]

Ignore, no. Continually do it successfully, also no. Not try hard enough, maybe.

Every option but the main one, everyone watching can see how we should move off the ball yet we don't - can Maloney not see that or does he even instruct them to do so it's either one of those or they just ignore him.

 

[moonay]

Every option but the main one, everyone watching can see how we should move off the ball yet we don't - can Maloney not see that or does he even instruct them to do so it's either one of those or they just ignore him.

It sounds like you want a fight on this. Why can't the answer be the one I suggested? Why does it need to be black and white? Why can't it be grey?

I agree, there are times that the players don't do it ... even lots of times ... but then, there are times that they do, ... and sometimes, very well.

He obviously does tell them to do that, as he's said as much in interviews ... he also wants them to be more aggressive when we don't have the ball, another thing we do to different degrees at different times.

 

[Roy Race]

Every option but the main one, everyone watching can see how we should move off the ball yet we don't - can Maloney not see that or does he even instruct them to do so it's either one of those or they just ignore him.

Its called being human, sometimes they do it correctly sometimes they don't, sometimes they're confident enough to do it, other times they aren't, sometimes they miss control it or play a bad pass, other times they don't, sometimes they're off form, other times they aren't. That's life! If they did it perfect every time they'd all be premier league players and the manager would be a premier league manager. The league table, our results and my eyes suggest they're getting it right more times than not. I'm sure as time goes on we'll get it right even more. It's not as black and white as saying the manager isn't giving instructions or the players are ignoring them. No point busting a blood vessel over it and screaming "get it forward" every time we try and play it out or make a mistake at the back as seems to be the norm from some of the speccies sat near me.

 

[St. Column Major]

Its called being human, sometimes they do it correctly sometimes they don't, sometimes they're confident enough to do it, other times they aren't, sometimes they miss control it or play a bad pass, other times they don't, sometimes they're off form, other times they aren't. That's life! If they did it perfect every time they'd all be premier league players and the manager would be a premier league manager. The league table, our results and my eyes suggest they're getting it right more times than not. I'm sure as time goes on we'll get it right even more. It's not as black and white as saying the manager isn't giving instructions or the players are ignoring them. No point busting a blood vessel over it and screaming "get it forward" every time we try and play it out or make a mistake at the back as seems to be the norm from some of the speccies sat near me.

I agree with most of that, but I suggest you read Moonay's original post and my reply, because none of what you posted is relevant.

It was about one issue alone - item 2 in Moonay's post, movement off the ball and do the team ignore Maloney or does he not instruct them to do so, what ever he or the players do our movement off the ball in our team is abysmal.

As you have posted and I agreed, young/ inexperienced, average standard players and even good ones can have off days more so for the younger ones, but that is no excuse for basic fundamentals of the game pass and move when we ignore the latter.

 

[moonay]

I agree with most of that, but I suggest you read Moonay's original post and my reply, because none of what you posted is relevant.

It was about one issue alone - item 2 in Moonay's post, movement off the ball and do the team ignore Maloney or does he not instruct them to do so, what ever he or the players do our movement off the ball in our team is abysmal.

As you have posted and I agreed, young/ inexperienced, average standard players and even good ones can have off days more so for the younger ones, but that is no excuse for basic fundamentals of the game pass and move when we ignore the latter.

Bloody hell SCM ... in post #130, I thought I responded in a very similar way to Roy ... but it doesn't really matter, does it.

 

[St. Column Major]

It sounds like you want a fight on this. Why can't the answer be the one I suggested? Why does it need to be black and white? Why can't it be grey?

I agree, there are times that the players don't do it ... even lots of times ... but then, there are times that they do, ... and sometimes, very well.

He obviously does tell them to do that, as he's said as much in interviews ... he also wants them to be more aggressive when we don't have the ball, another thing we do to different degrees at different times.

Why should I want a fight on this, you seem to offer the options you prefer but want to pick "a fight" over and ignore the options you don't like or consider.

For reference in all Maloney's interviews I have never heard him mention anything about moving off the ball to give team mates a passing option, though I have heard the ones you quote and as I said to Roy - this issue isn't about up and down performances, our movement is poor on the occasions we play well.

 

[Roy Race]

I agree with most of that, but I suggest you read Moonay's original post and my reply, because none of what you posted is relevant.

It was about one issue alone - item 2 in Moonay's post, movement off the ball and do the team ignore Maloney or does he not instruct them to do so, what ever he or the players do our movement off the ball in our team is abysmal.

As you have posted and I agreed, young/ inexperienced, average standard players and even good ones can have off days more so for the younger ones, but that is no excuse for basic fundamentals of the game pass and move when we ignore the latter.

I have read your posts and my point still remains relevant. As I allude to, why does it HAVE to be one or the other? Sometimes they move well off the ball, sometimes we don't etc etc. Why can't people understand it's not just as black and white as the manager doesn't tell them to do it or they ignore his instructions. Our movement off the ball isn't abysmal. If it was we'd be languishing near the bottom. Could it be better? Yes, Could it be worse? Also yes.

Believe it or not you can coach a group of players day in day out, pass and move, pass and move then on a match day it all goes perfectly then other days it all goes to shit. There are a million and one reasons why it might not go to plan it's not just A or B.

 

[moonay]

Why should I wan a fight on this, you seem to offer the options you prefer but want to pick "a fight" over and ignore the options you don't like or consider.

For reference in all Maloney's interviews I have never heard him mention anything about moving off the ball to give team mates a passing option, though I have heard the ones you quote and as I said to Roy - this issue isn't about up and down performances, our movement is poor on the occasions we play well.

This started as a response to Frank about tactics, and his suggestion that players don't understand what's being asked of them. I gave my view of what they've likely been told.

Maloney says every week about movement and possession, and care of the ball ... but I acknowledge, my "move to give a passing option" was my take on this, based on what Maloney's said he wants.

I'll say again, within the space of any one game, there are times when we do it well, and (maybe longer) times when we don't. How many times have we bemoaned a great first half followed by a shite second, (or vice versa)?

I'm not picking a fight ... I'm just answering "grey", when you said the only two options were black or white.

 

[jocklatic]

Every option but the main one, everyone watching can see how we should move off the ball yet we don't - can Maloney not see that or does he even instruct them to do so it's either one of those or they just ignore him.

As you say SCM, 'everyone watching can see how we should move off the ball'.....without sounding too simplistic, perhaps SM could do with watch a game from higher up in the stands & see how his players are moving / not moving.
At the Wycombe game in the 1st half I sat down low level in ES2, then in the 2nd half watched it in my usual seat alot higher up....the difference in seeing how the game plays out / the movement of players / team positions are huge compared to sitting lower down in the stands....perhaps if SM tried this it might alter his outlook ( btw I'm not advocating he comes n sits by us in the East stand , merely up from his dugout )

 

[alharry]

But that's what he has Graham Barrow high up in the stands to do! Almost every second half I see GB down by the dugout and he should be saying to Shaun that the team are too static and need to make themselves available more. In fact, with modern technology, he should be giving that message a lot earlier. However, as has been said, whether the players have the confidence to do this is a different matter. I've only seen one player do it consistently this season (and even he struggled on Tuesday) and that's Matt Smith!

 

[TRUE BELIEVER]

But that's what he has Graham Barrow high up in the stands to do! Almost every second half I see GB down by the dugout and he should be saying to Shaun that the team are too static and need to make themselves available more. In fact, with modern technology, he should be giving that message a lot earlier. However, as has been said, whether the players have the confidence to do this is a different matter. I've only seen one player do it consistently this season (and even he struggled on Tuesday) and that's Matt Smith!

When Paul Cook was given a touchline ban he went up on the TV gantry above the West Stand. Instructions were then relayed to Liam on the touchline, at the time it was some of the better football we played under him.

 

[Cueball]

On a few occasions on Tuesday I saw Matt Smith play the ball through the defence expecting his teammate to have run into the space to receive the pass but to no avail, however the more games Matt plays the more his teammates will know what to expect of him.