Why do we still under appreciate Winks?

[muttley]

I used to be a big fan of Winks , now all I can see is a liability . Getting caught in possession regularly , no vision going forward , not offering a lot of cover defensively .
He must be our longest serving player having been here since he was around five years old , but I feel it’s time he was let go .
Go now while it’s still good to play at a decent level for someone else .
He has been a fantastic servant , but I feel he has reached his limit and is struggling .
An England player for a while , shame about the injuries … I would think he is just cover for Skipp now .

I guess the question becomes can we offload both Hojbjerg and Winks in one summer? It feels like what needs to be done.

Winks has been a fantastic servant, but also a fantastic sub. I'm not sure Pierre makes a good sub though. He starts games rough and takes too long to get into it.

 

[Real Deal]

I was hoping he had turned a corner but he has reverted to type.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

I used to be a big fan of Winks , now all I can see is a liability . Getting caught in possession regularly , no vision going forward , not offering a lot of cover defensively .
He must be our longest serving player having been here since he was around five years old , but I feel it’s time he was let go .
Go now while it’s still good to play at a decent level for someone else .
He has been a fantastic servant , but I feel he has reached his limit and is struggling .
An England player for a while , shame about the injuries … I would think he is just cover for Skipp now .

I think we saw both sides of Winks yesterday. The one in the first half when the opponents are coming on to you. He was pulled all over the place, made a couple of rash challenges (he's not a tackler anyway) and got caught in possession a few times.

Then there was the Winks in the second half when the opponents sat back and he has more time on the ball. He looked more comfortable and played a few more probing forward passes.

Of course in the PL you can't pick and choose your games and scenarios. He should be quite easy to improve upon in the transfer window.

 

[meee93]

It isn't Winks that is underrated. He blows hot and cold all the time. We can't expect him to be consistently showing the better side of his game. He has never been able to do that.

The big underrated players are Hojbjerg and the most important player, Skipp. Can't expect to win football matches if you don't have grafters in midfield able to battle to control the game.

 

[freundorfoe]

I think we saw both sides of Winks yesterday. The one in the first half when the opponents are coming on to you. He was pulled all over the place, made a couple of rash challenges (he's not a tackler anyway) and got caught in possession a few times.

Then there was the Winks in the second half when the opponents sat back and he has more time on the ball. He looked more comfortable and played a few more probing forward passes.

Of course in the PL you can't pick and choose your games and scenarios. He should be quite easy to improve upon in the transfer window.

I said on page 1 he doesn't work in a midfield 2 unless the other player is a proper DM. Here we are nearly 2 years later and people are surprised when he's been great in a 3 and thinking he's maybe turned a corner, then plays poorly in a 2 with Hojbjerg doing his slouchy box to box impression leaving Winks outnumbered or with Bentancour when Lage deliberately flooded the midfield to outnumber them.

It's not rocket science, I don't know why managers keep picking him in a role he's not cut out for. Use him to his strengths or not at all imo.

 

[Pompey Yid]

I said on page 1 he doesn't work in a midfield 2 unless the other player is a proper DM. Here we are nearly 2 years later and people are surprised when he's been great in a 3 and thinking he's maybe turned a corner, then plays poorly in a 2 with Hojbjerg doing his slouchy box to box impression leaving Winks outnumbered or with Bentancour when Lage deliberately flooded the midfield to outnumber them.

It's not rocket science, I don't know why managers keep picking him in a role he's not cut out for. Use him to his strengths or not at all imo.

Spot on, although for me he is a sub when Skippy is fit, thus a triangle of Skippy n Bentacur with Hoj in front of em upsetting getting stuck into our oppositions initial attacking play, thus early.

 

[freundorfoe]

in a 3 I'd have Winks over Hojbjerg all day long. In a 2 I don't want either of them.

 

[muttley]

in a 3 I'd have Winks over Hojbjerg all day long. In a 2 I don't want either of them.

Yep, that's how I feel.

Also curious to know whether Kulu can be part of this equation. He's hardly a speedy winger, but could be that player to sit in front of Skipp and Bentancur and form the 3-man.

 

[Walthamstow wanderer]

When we signed Bentancur and Kulu , I thought we would become hard to beat .
When these two become settled , and Skipp gets fit , i can still see that happening .

 

[freundorfoe]

Yep, that's how I feel.

Also curious to know whether Kulu can be part of this equation. He's hardly a speedy winger, but could be that player to sit in front of Skipp and Bentancur and form the 3-man.

saw him described by a bigger stat nerd than me as extremely press resistant. I can see that could well be true from his small cameos with us so far. Decent strength and close control once it’s under his spell. Too early to tell probably but we’re desperately in need of someone who can just keep the ball under pressure consistently.

 

[Departed]

saw him described by a bigger stat nerd than me as extremely press resistant. I can see that could well be true from his small cameos with us so far. Decent strength and close control once it’s under his spell. Too early to tell probably but we’re desperately in need of someone who can just keep the ball under pressure consistently.

Are we ever! THE most annoying trait in this squad.

 

[RichmondSpur]

We should have taken the proactive step to recruit a manipulator of the ball a long time ago, that player should already be here calling the tune and making us better. But alas for us, we chose to stay with a player on a predicted course of failure.

 

[Real Deal]

We should have taken the proactive step to recruit a manipulator of the ball a long time ago, that player should already be here calling the tune and making us better. But alas for us, we chose to stay with a player on a predicted course of failure.

Still plenty here getting way too much game time. Sanchez, Dier, Davies, Winks and Lucas.

All were squad players under Poch when he had that strong 11. Now all of them are pretty much 1st 11. Says it all really.

 

[Spursex]

Still plenty here getting way too much game time. Sanchez, Dier, Davies, Winks and Lucas.

All were squad players under Poch when he had that strong 11. Now all of them are pretty much 1st 11. Says it all really.

Sadly it does, all very decent squad players, but we should have better starting.

 

[muttley]

Still plenty here getting way too much game time. Sanchez, Dier, Davies, Winks and Lucas.

All were squad players under Poch when he had that strong 11. Now all of them are pretty much 1st 11. Says it all really.

Joined by Hojbjerg and Emerson.

 

[Departed]

Joined by Hojbjerg and Emerson.

We both have to give a little bit on Hojberg because, like it or not, the stats support him. He is still not the level we need but.......

 

[Walthamstow wanderer]

Do the perceived top three have any decent Squad players , or are they all rotating first team players .
Liverpool have Milner , Minnamiho ( sorry about the spelling ) and perhaps one other , but when the “ others “ play , they all seem to easily slip into the team .
Playing without their two centre backs for most of last season still kept then in the CL .
I can’t really name any squad players at city , or the Chavs .

We appear to have decent squad players that are also first pick eleven . Then when the subs come on , they make no impact on the game . The only exception was Bergwijn a while ago at Leicester, but that was a freak show .

 

[muttley]

We both have to give a little bit on Hojberg because, like it or not, the stats support him. He is still not the level we need but.......

Nah, don't have to give anything on Pierre. RD's original point was about who should be squad players becoming regular first teamers. Pierre is exactly that.

If Dier can pull on the shirt 50 times for 3 consecutive seasons in our best spell as a club, then Pierre is fair game. Even more so because he's the current incumbent playing 50 games a season in the massive hole left by Dembele.

Dier is actually making a bigger fist of filling prime Toby's big shoes than Pierre is with Dembele's.

 

[muttley]

Do the perceived top three have any decent Squad players , or are they all rotating first team players .
Liverpool have Milner , Minnamiho ( sorry about the spelling ) and perhaps one other , but when the “ others “ play , they all seem to easily slip into the team .
Playing without their two centre backs for most of last season still kept then in the CL .
I can’t really name any squad players at city , or the Chavs .

We appear to have decent squad players that are also first pick eleven . Then when the subs come on , they make no impact on the game . The only exception was Bergwijn a while ago at Leicester, but that was a freak show .

You see Conte's dilemma when you look at it the other way round. What Liverpool player's would be displaced with our players?

Kane for Firminho as a true number 9, but they also have Sala, Jota, Mane, Diaz so why would they want the Son we've seen this season?

We don't have a single GK, Def or Midfielder at our club that Klopp would want.

What would their second eleven do against our best eleven?

 

[Real Deal]

Joined by Hojbjerg and Emerson.

I would add Doherty and quite possibly Reggie. Still unsure with him.