Why do we still under appreciate Winks? | Page 2 | Vital Football

Why do we still under appreciate Winks?

Once Mason had a DM type player next to him he started controlling games. Mason for me was better than Winks.
Me too. Given what is available to Mourinho currently, and as Muttley indicates above, Jose is probably focusing on Winks at the moment to take him up another level. If that doesn't happen, as was the case with Mason he will quite likely be deemed as not quite good enough for what we are looking for, and could well be moved on.
 
To be perfectly honest I like the lad, though I don't know him personally, I like the look of him and the way he plays, will admit there is just that little bit missing, could quite easily be his age, because most of those type of players are at their best in latter years, experience and all that.
 
I honestly think Winks has played well after the break. No issues from me. We need to place a bulldog of a DM behind him to clean up shit and let Winks help move things forward.
 
Liverpools engine room - Fabinho, Hendo, Milner, Wijnaldum, Keita, Ox, Shaqiri, Lallana

Spurs engine room - Ndombele, Gio, Winks, Sissoko, Dele, Gedson, Lamela, Skipp

If we were to add a bit of steel into the base of ours like Klopp did with Fabinho, then it's comparable and probably has a little more talent. At some point it surely becomes really competitive and stays fresh with rotation. That is if Jose can do what Klopp has done and get their intensity and organisation levels through the roof. They also need to realise that they are the engine room despite their clear attacking talents.
 
I love Mason, clearly a top bloke and Spurs through and through but I don't see how he's being put on par (or even said to be exceeding) Winks. It's like the people who say we should bring Townsend back when he scores one of his worldies only to then go 15 games without troubling a keeper... I just don't know if we were watching the same players when they were with us.

Winks has dominated games against some of the best midfields in Europe. On his day he's an absolute rolls royce. He also performs really well for England whenever given the nod. The problem is I just don't think he works in a 2 man midfield, especially if the other man isn't a DM. For now he's a really solid squad player as he's really fighting with Lo Celso for a position in the 2 and GLC offers more in most departments.
 
I love Mason, clearly a top bloke and Spurs through and through but I don't see how he's being put on par (or even said to be exceeding) Winks. It's like the people who say we should bring Townsend back when he scores one of his worldies only to then go 15 games without troubling a keeper... I just don't know if we were watching the same players when they were with us.

Winks has dominated games against some of the best midfields in Europe. On his day he's an absolute rolls royce. He also performs really well for England whenever given the nod. The problem is I just don't think he works in a 2 man midfield, especially if the other man isn't a DM. For now he's a really solid squad player as he's really fighting with Lo Celso for a position in the 2 and GLC offers more in most departments.

Actually, not sure I agree, but not even sure about that :-)

What confused me was how well Winks played with Wanyama. What was also forgotten is how much Wanyama spent hustling and bustling ahead of Winks and the amount of time Wanyama drove forward with the ball at his feet and let Winks sit behind him. It was so different than when Dier just sat and dropped in between the centre halves and that led me to believe Winks was more the old fashioned centre mid. By that, I mean they used to play in pairs and when one went, the other held. Wanyama and Winks were good at that. Ditto with Winks and Dembele, not that we saw them together much.

Like a lot of our conversations on VS, it depends what the other 3 ahead are doing defensively. When we defend as a unit, like we did under Poch for a while, we can make almost any system work. Since we stopped doing that and pander to the prima donnas that don't see defending as their role anymore, we draw these alternative conclusions.

I still believe that if Sissoko had played with more defensive positional discipline and Son, Moura, Dele etc had got their finger out of their arses defensively this season, our perception of Winks might be slightly different. That implies it might be in the future once Jose shapes it differently.
 
Mason was more of a goal threat, he moved up and down the pitch. Winks is more sideways across the pitch dealing with attacks on us. Mason was a tempo player, looked to get forward more. He may not have been so good defensively compared to Winks.
 
Actually, not sure I agree, but not even sure about that :-)

I still believe that if Sissoko had played with more defensive positional discipline and Son, Moura, Dele etc had got their finger out of their arses defensively this season, our perception of Winks might be slightly different. That implies it might be in the future once Jose shapes it differently.

Sissoko showed the other side of his game and used his offensive ability to break opposition lines and get us up the pitch. Otherwise, we were getting 0 to 1% of attacking threat, from the twin cohorts of rubbish last season that were Alli and Eriksen.
 
Sissoko showed the other side of his game and used his offensive ability to break opposition lines and get us up the pitch. Otherwise, we were getting 0 to 1% of attacking threat, from the twin cohorts of rubbish last season that were Alli and Eriksen.

I think you needed to look closer at Eriksen. Whilst he admittedly had an attitude problem, he spent way too much of his time covering holes that Sissoko left. There is a time to break lines and Sissoko clearly spent big chunks of the game just doing his own thing. It had a massive negative tactical impact on the team whilst making him look good on MOTD. He also had no assists and goals to justify the free role he gave himself.

That is why Jose has gone to town on him in this last 6 weeks. You'll see a more disciplined Sissoko now as Jose has spelt out to him what he should have been taught many years ago.
 
So it seems the best way to maximise Winks's strengths are to play him in front of a DM.

Looking at the makeup of our squad I'd say we're more suited to a flexible 4-3-3 formation now. An orthodox DM with two of our more creative players slightly ahead (Winks, Lo Celso, Ndombele). Two attackers either side of Kane (and his backup) with defensive duties to help out our FBs.
 
I think you needed to look closer at Eriksen. Whilst he admittedly had an attitude problem, he spent way too much of his time covering holes that Sissoko left. There is a time to break lines and Sissoko clearly spent big chunks of the game just doing his own thing. It had a massive negative tactical impact on the team whilst making him look good on MOTD. He also had no assists and goals to justify the free role he gave himself.

That is why Jose has gone to town on him in this last 6 weeks. You'll see a more disciplined Sissoko now as Jose has spelt out to him what he should have been taught many years ago.

When a player gives up cheap possession like Eriksen did and being eased of the ball like taking candy from a baby, he better get back and defend.
 
When a player gives up cheap possession like Eriksen did and being eased of the ball like taking candy from a baby, he better get back and defend.

I don't know if you read it, but after two good games for Roma, Eriksen got critisied heavily for doing exactly what you've just said - then of course played out of his skin in their 6-0 win over Brescia.

So he's still blowing hot and cold.
 
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I don't know if you read it, but after two good games for Roma, Eriksen got critisied heavily for doing exactly what you've just said - then of course played out of his skin in their 6-0 win over Brescia.

So he's still blowing hot and cold.

No, I didn't read it, but having watched him for seven years, I knew what to expect. Latterly, in his Spurs career, the 'hot' performances became non-existent. While the 'cold' ones flourished and became an endless and miserable Siberian winter for over a year.
 
No, I didn't read it, but having watched him for seven years, I knew what to expect. Latterly, in his Spurs career, the 'hot' performances became non-existent. While the 'cold' ones flourished and became an endless and miserable Siberian winter for over a year.
He did go MIA more often than not, especially when it mattered the most.
 
I used to be a big fan of Winks , now all I can see is a liability . Getting caught in possession regularly , no vision going forward , not offering a lot of cover defensively .
He must be our longest serving player having been here since he was around five years old , but I feel it’s time he was let go .
Go now while it’s still good to play at a decent level for someone else .
He has been a fantastic servant , but I feel he has reached his limit and is struggling .
An England player for a while , shame about the injuries … I would think he is just cover for Skipp now .