Who Says No Expectations | Page 5 | Vital Football

Who Says No Expectations

Nottingham said:
I seem to be in a minority of one here. Moonay, stirring things up as usual, has led to some posters misinterpreting what my view is. Put simply, we are, hopefully, entering a new era. We need, in my opinion, fresh ideas to take us forward. Like it or not JJ was involved with the previous management team, which brought the club to the edge of the abyss. He is partly responsible...in my opinion.
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Oh, come off it. How the hell am I stirring things up. Read your words back. I haven't mispresented you in any way whatsoever.

You're now trying to suggest that simply because JJ was "involved" in the previous set-up, that he should be precluded from playing a part going forward ........ previously, you'd made assumptions and cast aspersions on his involvement.

How on earth you attribute any responsibility to him whatsoever is completely beyond me.

As MiW says, he'd previously had concerns re some of JJ's decision making and influence (or lack thereof), but even he wouldn't point the finger in JJ's direction in this instance.

Stick by your comments by all means Notts, and we'll all happily disagree with you ....... vehemently ........ but please, don't try and accuse anyone of misinterpreting your view, given what you yourself have posted.

Have some balls at least.
 
Hampton said:
For those who follow F1
An apology with Moonay as Lando Norris and Nittingham as Lance Stroll 😉🤣
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I don't follow it, so that's meaningless to me ....... so, I googled it........ and now, I'm even more puzzled.

Lando Norris apologised (of a fashion) ........ so why am I he?

You've lost me here Hampton.
 
Nottingham said:
I seem to be in a minority of one here. Moonay, stirring things up as usual, has led to some posters misinterpreting what my view is. Put simply, we are, hopefully, entering a new era. We need, in my opinion, fresh ideas to take us forward. Like it or not JJ was involved with the previous management team, which brought the club to the edge of the abyss. He is partly responsible...in my opinion.
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Notts to help you out he said nothing to the fans when two major announcements were made to the Hong Kong stock exchange about changes of ownerships. His main skill set is that if an accountant and the club was being run in a way in which we were waiting each month (at times it got to the last day of the month) for funds to clear.

You are fighting against the tide of people who believes he can do no wrong and feel learning from past events makes you some how wrong!

If Jackson was going to be on the board could we trust him to speak out when things are going wrong or would he toe the company line (again)?
 
Wlatic said:
Notts to help you out he said nothing to the fans when two major announcements were made to the Hong Kong stock exchange about changes of ownerships. His main skill set is that if an accountant and the club was being run in a way in which we were waiting each month (at times it got to the last day of the month) for funds to clear.
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Wlatic, in his capacity of Chief Exec, and with his training as an Accountant, how do you think he could/should have affected the timeliness of the release of funds from the owners? The release was very often "at the last minute", but never late. Is that a bad thing? What would be the basis for moaning about it?

Wlatic said:
You are fighting against the tide of people who believes he can do no wrong and feel learning from past events makes you some how wrong!

If Jackson was going to be on the board could we trust him to speak out when things are going wrong or would he toe the company line (again)?
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"do no wrong"? I think that's very unfair. We're talking about a specific incident. MiW certainly doesn't think that JJ can "do no wrong", but still isn't in agreement with some/most/all (you tell us MiW) of Notts' comments.

I ask the same question to you as to Notts .................... even if he had "spoken out", what purpose would it have served, other than appeasing his own conscience.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
This was your original response to my post.

Please explain "dubious history".
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Look, matey
TRUE BELIEVER said:
This was your original response to my post.

Please explain "dubious history".
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Look, buddy, my views are not vindictive in any way. Stuff goes on behind the scenes of which none of us fans know anything. People in the management team were running the club, apparently successfully until the notorious transfer of ownership. As a long term supporter, I would quite like to know what was going on. I don't know, you don't know. Does Jonathan Jackson know? We don't know. He was there at the time, so you would think, as an intelligent, qualified man, that he could work out what was going on and do something... whistle blow or whatever. He didn't, which makes me.....and others, incidentally, suspicious. I don't get why I need to apologise. Nobody on this board knows any more than I do about the whole, sorry mess.
 
[QUOTE="Nottingham, post: 2520572, member: 142553"mi


Look, buddy, my views are not vindictive in any way. Stuff goes on behind the scenes of which none of us fans know anything. People in the management team were running the club, apparently successfully until the notorious transfer of ownership. As a long term supporter, I would quite like to know what was going on. I don't know, you don't know. Does Jonathan Jackson know? We don't know. He was there at the time, so you would think, as an intelligent, qualified man, that he could work out what was going on and do something... whistle blow or whatever. He didn't, which makes me.....and others, incidentally, suspicious. I don't get why I need to apologise. Nobody on this board knows any more than I do about the whole, sorry mess.[/QUOTE]
 
Nottingham said:
Look, matey

Look, buddy, my views are not vindictive in any way.
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I refer the "honourable" :hmmm: gentleman to my earlier post, referencing his own earlier (vindictive? ......... certainly very critical, even if unsubstantiated) words.

Nottingham said:
We don't know. He was there at the time, so you would think, as an intelligent, qualified man, that he could work out what was going on and do something... whistle blow or whatever. He didn't, which makes me.....and others, incidentally, suspicious. I don't get why I need to apologise. Nobody on this board knows any more than I do about the whole, sorry mess.
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Other the decision being made to get rid, what signs were there?

What should he said ...... and to whom? What exactly are you suspicious about. ?

As for who knows what on this board, how can you possibly know that? It seems like you're making stuff up now ......... much like your allegations against JJ.

EDIT:
Buddy?........Matey? .......... oooh, passive aggressive. Careful TB, you'll be labelled "Sonny" next !
:LOL:

;)
 
moonay said:
Wlatic, in his capacity of Chief Exec, and with his training as an Accountant, how do you think he could/should have affected the timeliness of the release of funds from the owners? The release was very often "at the last minute", but never late. Is that a bad thing? What would be the basis for moaning about it?



"do no wrong"? I think that's very unfair. We're talking about a specific incident. MiW certainly doesn't think that JJ can "do no wrong", but still isn't in agreement with some/most/all (you tell us MiW) of Notts' comments.

I ask the same question to you as to Notts .................... even if he had "spoken out", what purpose would it have served, other than appeasing his own conscience.
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You call it appeasing your own conscience I call it a moral obligation. There are times it's just a job and you have to be willing to take personal risks/liability.

Money coming in at the last minute is disfunctional, we only had 200k in the bank account when administration happened and this wasn't anywhere enough to pay the bills we had due. The just following orders point of view I don't adhere to.

"Do no wrong" is extemely fair.

That said, if Jackson ultimately becomes the fans voice inside the club, and the organisation is open and transparent, he may do well. I'd personally rather have a completely new start, but based on how long this is all dragging on the most important thing is just getting rid of the admin and the community ownership being sorted and put in place properly.

--edit--

In regards to what good would speaking out have done, it would have given the EFL a very interesting decision to make. A CE showing public concern about a takeover after a change in ownership structure had just been made and then further strangeness in the boardroom shuffles etc. Its hard to say the affect someone speaking out would have had, because no one did.
 
moonay said:
I refer the "honourable" :hmmm: gentleman to my earlier post, referencing his own earlier (vindictive? ......... certainly very critical, even if unsubstantiated) words.



Other the decision being made to get rid, what signs were there?

What should he said ...... and to whom? What exactly are you suspicious about. ?

As for who knows what on this board, how can you possibly know that? It seems like you're making stuff up now ......... much like your allegations against JJ.

EDIT:
Buddy?........Matey? .......... oooh, passive aggressive. Careful TB, you'll be labelled "Sonny" next !
:LOL:

;)
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Moonay, announcements to the stock exchange were one sign, the board room shuffle (people being forced out) is another and those are the ones fans are actually privy to. If he wasn't having tough conversations while this strangeness was going on and as a result of those conversations either feeling the need to communicate with the fans (on a positive note) or had severe worries about what was going on he likely didn't have the right conversations (and if he had no conversations see severe worry!)
 
A moral obligation to what though Wlatic? What exactly happened that he could have blown the lid on? ........ Reveal that they wanted to go into Admin a few days before it came out? What could have been done? Who would have done it?!

Money being paid at the last minute is (I would have thought) fairly standard practise across many industries. In our instance, there had never been an inkling of it not being made available previously. As for money in the bank and bills, that's an irrelevant point. The money in the bank wasn't to pay the bills - they were paid by the incoming (last minute) money. Standard financial practise.

No-one has said JJ can "do no wrong" ........ that's why you suggesting they have is unfair.

As for the EFL, what decision would it have given them to make? What could they have done? Precisely nothing I fear.
 
Wlatic said:
Moonay, announcements to the stock exchange were one sign, the board room shuffle (people being forced out) is another and those are the ones fans are actually privy to. If he wasn't having tough conversations while this strangeness was going on and as a result of those conversations either feeling the need to communicate with the fans (on a positive note) or had severe worries about what was going on he likely didn't have the right conversations (and if he had no conversations see severe worry!)
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I'm sure he was having very tough conversations within the bounds of the board. As for you suggestion he should have communicated with the fans .........and say what exactly? ..........for what to be done? It's fantasy that he should have aired his concerns with a view that anything could have been done ................. either by the EFL or the fans, certainly.

Have another go.
 
moonay said:
I don't follow it, so that's meaningless to me ....... so, I googled it........ and now, I'm even more puzzled.

Lando Norris apologised (of a fashion) ........ so why am I he?

You've lost me here Hampton.
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Norris apologised for calling Stroll a "James Hunt" after Stroll made a huge error which wrecked his race 😉
 
moonay said:
I'm sure he was having very tough conversations within the bounds of the board. As for you suggestion he should have communicated with the fans .........and say what exactly? ..........for what to be done? It's fantasy that he should have aired his concerns with a view that anything could have been done ................. either by the EFL or the fans, certainly.

Have another go.
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I guess that's one of the keys to if he'd be suitable to sit on the board for the fans.

What happens when these tough conversations happen again, does he toe the company line or does he communicate to the fans?

It 100% isn't fantasy that he should have aired his concerns in a view that something could have been done. I'd say, as a Latics man through and through, he should have spoke out when he saw things going wrong and was in over his head. If you dont believe he ever got to that stage what does it mean for him being in a position where it may happen again?
 
Nottingham said:
Look, matey


Look, buddy, my views are not vindictive in any way. Stuff goes on behind the scenes of which none of us fans know anything. People in the management team were running the club, apparently successfully until the notorious transfer of ownership. As a long term supporter, I would quite like to know what was going on. I don't know, you don't know. Does Jonathan Jackson know? We don't know. He was there at the time, so you would think, as an intelligent, qualified man, that he could work out what was going on and do something... whistle blow or whatever. He didn't, which makes me.....and others, incidentally, suspicious. I don't get why I need to apologise. Nobody on this board knows any more than I do about the whole, sorry mess.
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Sorry sunshine if I have offended your sensibility.

I asked a simple question, what "dubious history" are you alluding to?

I am not aware that JJ has ever faced any questions from the club as to his conduct and as far as I, and you, know has carried out his duties in accordance with the Directors wishes. He has no reason to be speaking to the fans about anything that goes on in the inner sanctums of the club and could in fact face a legal charge for disclosing sensitive business information.

As you say, we don't know what was said and done but you seem to have found him guilty of misdemeanours without any proof, I on the other hand see a man dedicated to the club who has acted in good faith.

Please submit your proof of his "dubious history" or retract your comments.
 
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