What next for FGR? | Vital Football

What next for FGR?

If football wasn't already dying on its feet that would completely kill it. Pandering to the media. Completely unqualified and not in a month of Sundays would it work. There would be zero respect from the players. This isn't about sexism etc, let them concentrate on their own game. Mens football should be just that. I remember when i was a kid watching Match Of The Day and noticed a girl playing for Arsenal, for weeks i was amazed that a woman was playing in the Premier League, then i discovered about a month later it was a man. It was Glenn Helder.
 
Frankel Bucks said:
If football wasn't already dying on its feet that would completely kill it. Pandering to the media. Completely unqualified and not in a month of Sundays would it work. There would be zero respect from the players. This isn't about sexism etc, let them concentrate on their own game. Mens football should be just that. I remember when i was a kid watching Match Of The Day and noticed a girl playing for Arsenal, for weeks i was amazed that a woman was playing in the Premier League, then i discovered about a month later it was a man. It was Glenn Helder.
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So men can manage women but women can't manage men? Geez. Given there's millionaire women footballers it's only a matter of time before one breaks the mould.
 
Frankel Bucks said:
If football wasn't already dying on its feet that would completely kill it. Pandering to the media. Completely unqualified and not in a month of Sundays would it work. There would be zero respect from the players. This isn't about sexism etc, let them concentrate on their own game. Mens football should be just that. I remember when i was a kid watching Match Of The Day and noticed a girl playing for Arsenal, for weeks i was amazed that a woman was playing in the Premier League, then i discovered about a month later it was a man. It was Glenn Helder.
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This post demonstrates why 'football is dieing on its feet'.
Not wishing to intrude on your personal life, but would you be limiting what job a daughter could/should be able to do?

Anyway, I think Vince of FGR is just a self publicist.

It would work, do you not remember The Manageress on TV with Cherie Lunghi in the late 1980s? That was a documentary as I recall.
 
Not getting a proper pie would be far more offensive than a woman on the bench.
We've had lady physios, lady liners (that sounds wrong), lady chairs etc, so why not a token gesture lady manager, as I feel that a token gesture is all it would be.

I've not got a problem with vegans or vegatarians, but FGR appear to be forcing vegan pies on fans without offering an alternative.

I am partial to a cheese and onion from time to time, but chunkey steak or M&P would always be my first choice.

I wonder how many they will sell if we ever play them?
 
I'd take Emma Hayes or Casey Stoney as Latics manager without a doubt. Far more exciting than the usual managerial merry-go-round men. Not that either of them would have any interest in leaving Chelsea or United. A female managing an EFL side will happen eventually though, sooner rather than later and whoever does it will benefit hugely off the pitch with worldwide coverage and new supporters.
 
If I was FGR I'd worry less about trying to make social statements with my managerial choice and just hire the best best for the job. Rather than looking at the race or gender of a person as a plus point, I'd only be looking at their applicable experience, cv etc.

I think the idea of bringing a female manager into the men's game is incredibly tough. For the simple reason that managing a group of 25 male athletes will be completely different to managing a group of 25 female athletes in both physically and mentally. Even the best woman's manager in the world will be facing a different set of challenges than they are used to, particularly in the psychological and man manager aspect of the game on top of the physicality levels.

One of the biggest challenges is credibility and respect from the players. Just in the way if you took a non league manager and dropped him into a decent Championship team over night, no matter how good their ideas where there would be players who think 'who are you? what have you done in the game that means i should listen to you?'. If you brought someone in from the woman's game (even if it was a man who had been managing in the woman's game successfully) you'd get exactly the same issue of getting players to buy in - not because they're a woman but because they haven't done anything in the men's game to earn any trust. I'm sure some people who are into women's football will think that winning the women's world cup or premier league should give them credibility but i suspect very few of the players they'd be going in to manager would be avid women's football fans watching those games and even if they were - the women's game is understandably not played at the the same level of physicality or speed as the men's game - so it's hard to see them as interchangeable.

We've seen that even experienced and successful men's coaches and U23 managers struggle with the step up - i think a lot of that is authority in the dressing room. I think if you brought in a woman manager into a league side immediately they'd struggle even worse in that regard.

Any women looking to break into men's management probably need to go and work as a coach in the men's game (preferably at a high level) under a decent manager. To get an inside look at how male managers handle things and earn credibility by being successful and showing promise in their work. The woman you bring in might be an expert on the men's game, have a great eye for talent, be a great tactician, etc but trying to get your ideas across, getting players to buy into their philosophy, dealing with bad attitudes, how to handle different personality types in the games is something that you have to get experience of and learn first hand within the men's game.

I don't think it's impossible that a woman could transition to be a successful manager in the men's game one day but think it's a giant stretch to think right now someone could successfully jump from managing a women's team to a professional men's team.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
I don't think it's impossible that a woman could transition to be a successful manager in the men's game one day but think it's a giant stretch to think right now someone could successfully jump from managing a women's team to a professional men's team.
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Women successfully manage men in just about every walk of life. It's beyond belief to think they couldn't do it in a football role. Any problem in that matter would be purely (go on then, mainly) due to the insular attitude of the players.

Tactics, coaching, man-management, they're what counts. Sorry KDZ, but I don't really get why the physicality of the players becomes an issue for the Manager.

Many of the best managers were never particularly successful players ... or even players at all.

I'm not saying that there's any ladies who currently have the necessary skills, experience etc, as I don't know, but to suggest that they wouldn't because they don't play/haven't played the men's game is so wide of the target, it may well be a Marc-Antoine Fortune shot !
 
moonay said:
Women successfully manage men in just about every walk of life. It's beyond belief to think they couldn't do it in a football role. Any problem in that matter would be purely (go on then, mainly) due to the insular attitude of the players.

Tactics, coaching, man-management, they're what counts. Sorry KDZ, but I don't really get why the physicality of the players becomes an issue for the Manager.

Many of the best managers were never particularly successful players ... or even players at all.

I'm not saying that there's any ladies who currently have the necessary skills, experience etc, as I don't know, but to suggest that they wouldn't because they don't play/haven't played the men's game is so wide of the target, it may well be a Marc-Antoine Fortune shot !
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Whoever takes the plunge first will certainly have the cleanest most well ironed kit in the league if nowt else????
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
If I was FGR I'd worry less about trying to make social statements with my managerial choice and just hire the best best for the job. Rather than looking at the race or gender of a person as a plus point, I'd only be looking at their applicable experience, cv etc.

I think the idea of bringing a female manager into the men's game is incredibly tough. For the simple reason that managing a group of 25 male athletes will be completely different to managing a group of 25 female athletes in both physically and mentally. Even the best woman's manager in the world will be facing a different set of challenges than they are used to, particularly in the psychological and man manager aspect of the game on top of the physicality levels.

One of the biggest challenges is credibility and respect from the players. Just in the way if you took a non league manager and dropped him into a decent Championship team over night, no matter how good their ideas where there would be players who think 'who are you? what have you done in the game that means i should listen to you?'. If you brought someone in from the woman's game (even if it was a man who had been managing in the woman's game successfully) you'd get exactly the same issue of getting players to buy in - not because they're a woman but because they haven't done anything in the men's game to earn any trust. I'm sure some people who are into women's football will think that winning the women's world cup or premier league should give them credibility but i suspect very few of the players they'd be going in to manager would be avid women's football fans watching those games and even if they were - the women's game is understandably not played at the the same level of physicality or speed as the men's game - so it's hard to see them as interchangeable.

We've seen that even experienced and successful men's coaches and U23 managers struggle with the step up - i think a lot of that is authority in the dressing room. I think if you brought in a woman manager into a league side immediately they'd struggle even worse in that regard.

Any women looking to break into men's management probably need to go and work as a coach in the men's game (preferably at a high level) under a decent manager. To get an inside look at how male managers handle things and earn credibility by being successful and showing promise in their work. The woman you bring in might be an expert on the men's game, have a great eye for talent, be a great tactician, etc but trying to get your ideas across, getting players to buy into their philosophy, dealing with bad attitudes, how to handle different personality types in the games is something that you have to get experience of and learn first hand within the men's game.

I don't think it's impossible that a woman could transition to be a successful manager in the men's game one day but think it's a giant stretch to think right now someone could successfully jump from managing a women's team to a professional men's team.
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Are you saying that skin colour doesn't come into it when employing a manager, if is doesn't why are there so few from ethnic backgrounds when there is an equal, if not greater, number of black players at the very top of the professional game.
 
moonay said:
Women successfully manage men in just about every walk of life. It's beyond belief to think they couldn't do it in a football role. Any problem in that matter would be purely (go on then, mainly) due to the insular attitude of the players.

Tactics, coaching, man-management, they're what counts. Sorry KDZ, but I don't really get why the physicality of the players becomes an issue for the Manager.

Many of the best managers were never particularly successful players ... or even players at all.

I'm not saying that there's any ladies who currently have the necessary skills, experience etc, as I don't know, but to suggest that they wouldn't because they don't play/haven't played the men's game is so wide of the target, it may well be a Marc-Antoine Fortune shot !
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The big difference is football is completely unique to anything else.

If a male coach went to coach a woman's team and and tried to manage a set of women in exactly the same way he'd previously manage men both physically and mentally you'd likely not get particularly great results. If you've never worked in the management of a men's team (or at the very least experienced management from the other side as a player) you're not going to be well placed to deal with it and it is inevitably going to be different from the women's side of the game - likely bigger egos, more confrontational, etc. It's not to say you can't and wouldn't adapt but it's hard to learn on the job when you are also trying to stamp your authority and get buy in. I'd put a man who's never played the men's game in exactly the same category - you need that type of experience.

The physicality plays a part in the way you set up your fitness and training, the decisions you make in games and the personal coaching you can give.

I'd the same about a man who had never been managed or coached in the mens pro level going into a club - you could be a great tactician but it's the experience you need to give you credibility and authority.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
The big difference is football is completely unique to anything else.
.
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I think Mandy Rice-Davies got this one right ... well, you (a man) would say that, wouldn't you!

king_dezeeuw06 said:
If a male coach went to coach a woman's team and and tried to manage a set of women in exactly the same way he'd previously manage men both physically and mentally you'd likely not get particularly great results. If you've never worked in the management of a men's team (or at the very least experienced management from the other side as a player) you're not going to be well placed to deal with it and it is inevitably going to be different from the women's side of the game - likely bigger egos, more confrontational, etc. It's not to say you can't and wouldn't adapt but it's hard to learn on the job when you are also trying to stamp your authority and get buy in. I'd put a man who's never played the men's game in exactly the same category - you need that type of experience..
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It's football. It's the same game. The same played by kids ... and teenagers ... who aren't as physically able as men.

Women manage men, confrontational men, with massive egos every single day. Why should the fact they're a footballer make it any different?

If you're talking lack of experience, then I agree ...... but not ability, or anything else.

king_dezeeuw06 said:
The physicality plays a part in the way you set up your fitness and training, the decisions you make in games and the personal coaching you can give.
.
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Do managers run the fitness side? I'd have thought that would be down to the coach ... who'll have done all the courses ... so even there, what would stop there being women's coaches in the men's game?

king_dezeeuw06 said:
I'd the same about a man who had never been managed or coached in the mens pro level going into a club - you could be a great tactician but it's the experience you need to give you credibility and authority.
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We're in agreement re the experience, but then again, any manager has got to get experience from somewhere. On every other aspect, I fundamentally disagree ... especially with regard to the attitude of the players being a stopper.

By the way, anyone win on the Grand National this weekend. ? There's a barrier no-one thought would be broken !
 
loudmouthblue said:
Are you saying that skin colour doesn't come into it when employing a manager, if is doesn't why are there so few from ethnic backgrounds when there is an equal, if not greater, number of black players at the very top of the professional game.
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This is football - every team in this country has had players of all religions, skin colours and nationalities. I doubt anyone is going to deliberately pass on good player, manager etc if they think they will bring them success and the money that comes from it.

You might find the odd person in the game who might think like that. But i think they would be a very tiny minority.

You mention specifically cases of black managers in the top level, can you name anyone who's cv earned a chance at the Premier League and have been overlooked or denied?
 
moonay said:
I think Mandy Rice-Davies got this one right ... well, you (a man) would say that, wouldn't you!



It's football. It's the same game. The same played by kids ... and teenagers ... who aren't as physically able as men.

Women manage men, confrontational men, with massive egos every single day. Why should the fact they're a footballer make it any different?

If you're talking lack of experience, then I agree ...... but not ability, or anything else.



Do managers run the fitness side? I'd have thought that would be down to the coach ... who'll have done all the courses ... so even there, what would stop there being women's coaches in the men's game?



We're in agreement re the experience, but then again, any manager has got to get experience from somewhere. On every other aspect, I fundamentally disagree ... especially with regard to the attitude of the players being a stopper.

By the way, anyone win on the Grand National this weekend. ? There's a barrier no-one thought would be broken !
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You mentioned in a previous post - 'I'm not saying that there's any ladies who currently have the necessary skills, experience etc' - why is that if not having direct experience in the men's game is a non factor?
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
You mention specifically cases of black managers in the top level, can you name anyone who's cv earned a chance at the Premier League and have been overlooked or denied?
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I may be wrong, but I read it that LMB was referring to an absence of black managers at all levels, given that there are equal number of black players at the very top level.

Are they being given the chances to put their CV together in the first place?
 
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