What about the loan players (in)? | Page 3 | Vital Football

What about the loan players (in)?

Basha73 said:
Watson and Bridcutt are both slightly more forward thinking than Colback in my eyes. Having the three of them and Gueddy gives us options as to how attacking the two deep lying midfielders are depending on the opposition. The question is whether the manager will do this or if he will tend toward the safety first option.
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If we keep Colback, someone from Watson, Bridcutt and Gueddy will be surplus as I cant see AK playing them all four, and he tends to stick with the same two for many games. Proof of this is that both Gueddy and even more Bridcutt were kept on the bench for too long. In games it looks like both Watson and Colback are indispensable but in truth some of the goals we conceeded lately, was more due to eighter one of them not marking players in our area. Figi and Fox have been consistently good in all the games they played together, but when it comes to set pieces or dead ball situations, I expect the old heads like Watson, to help in organsing the defensive aspect of the team...I am sorry to say that both him and Colback, most of the time are the ones that let the player that they are supposed to mark, free and able to punish us...by the way the Ipswich goal came through an Ozzy mistake ...it was his player that escaped his marking and went on to score...these are the small detail that makes a team unbeatable, until we improve on these...we will keep conceeding
 
Pope John XXIII said:
I'm not sure the influence of Tomlin or Colback in the long term is worth the price they would cost.

You could easily spend £5m or more on them just to keep the team as useless as it is now. That's on top of the £2m or whatever it is for Fig, which at least might be worth it.

Colback is a great player but without quality ahead of him he isn't able to influence results that strongly. You need a good player in the position at this level, not necessarily an outstanding one.

Bridcutt isn't as good as him but put Bridcutt there and spend the money on fullback or up front and you will have spent that money more intelligently.

I don't think it would necessarily be that hard to find a young player with the same influence as Tomlin for a fraction of the cost. Alternatively you could probably get someone twice as effective for the same or a little more of you knew where to look.

That's always the danger with loan a
Players.

It would be different if they had helped us show playoff form. You would think the price is worth it as they would clearly take us to the next level. But they have been part of a squad showing outright relegation form. Why would you pay to sign players like that?

Same as some of the others. Worrall has been consistently part of one of the worst defences in our history. A world class defender manager won't let him near the team. Fine, so he can go and take Mancienne with him. If Osborne can't get in the side apart from being a dreadful left back then it's time for him to move on too.

I don't give a fuck about any of them right now to be honest
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I would keep both Tomlin and Colback given the chance.

Tomlin would be the more likely one to sign; he should not cost much and his wages would not be prohibitive.

Colback is a very different story; Newcastle would not want much for him as they have made it clear they want him off of the books but he is on big wages and still under contract.

They are both great assets to the side bringing quality and leadership and an enthusiasm that clearly rubs off on the players around them.

If we cannot get Colback we do still have Bridcutt; Colback is different class but Bridcutt would be a decent alternative.

The two biggest problems in the side at the moment are the lack of an experienced forward who can act as a fulcrum when we are attacking and two decent full backs.

Brereton as done fantastic so far for a youngster but the team will not make significant progress when we are asking a boy to do a mans job; he needs to go out on loan for a while for the sake of his development.

Darikwa has improved from his early season form but is still not good enough and Osborn is clearly playing out of position.

The full back role carries great importance in Karanka's teams; this is where all of the width comes from and the incumbents are not providing enough, and when they do the quality is just not there.

I lost count on Saturday of the times Darikwa got into a good position but his end product was woeful.

I would be amazed if we are not well down the road towards signing the three players we need for this positions.
 
Whatever you think of Karanka’s playing style you can’t argue with the fact that he had a good go at overhauling the squad and I fully expect that job to continue in the summer.
 
Aside from a decent CB and Lollipop I'm not convinced the cost and lack of resale value of his other signings bodes well.

I'm too lazy to look but did he sign many players at Boro who they've subsequently sold for a decent profit?
 
Is resale value the only marker?

Pantillimon and Watson don’t have much resale value but they have added ‘value’ to the team. Figuerido looks to be worth the outlay and Lolley has looked decent.

Kapinos hasn’t had a chance yet and I think Gueddy is a squad player but of the permanent signings they are the only question marks for me so far.
 
Basha73 said:
Colback is the player who seems to knit things together without you necessarily noticing. He also brings a bit of grit to the side. I think you would notice more when he isn’t there.

If we can get him for the right price then we should but we do have other options and there are other parts of the squad that need more work.
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That's dead right. He does the simple things really well. I watched him specifically on Saturday and he covered his colleagues, tackled well and didn't give the ball away. His passing was assured.

If he's not too expensive, it's definitely from me.
 
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I don't like AK's playing style or his results - 17 points gained in his 16 matches.

But I suppose we'll have to give him the benefit of the doubt because, as so often is proved, continually sacking managers is unsustainable.
 
Basha73 said:
Is resale value the only marker?

Pantillimon and Watson don’t have much resale value but they have added ‘value’ to the team. Figuerido looks to be worth the outlay and Lolley has looked decent.

Kapinos hasn’t had a chance yet and I think Gueddy is a squad player but of the permanent signings they are the only question marks for me so far.
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Nope but it's a particularly important one for a struggling lower midtable championship club.

I'm unconvinced they've added a great deal, Pants has taken the pressure off Smith but otherwise has been unremarkable. Watson looks shot to me, he's yet to take hold of a game and drive us forward. Maybe that will come with fitness but injury prone players rarely have a huge new lease of life at 33+. Especially those who favour being combative over skilful.

I'd much prefer Colback at the right price.
 
Agree with you on Colback but Watson was playing regularly in the Premier for Watford this season so there must be something about him and I think we will see more from him as the team improves. You are quite right he is on the decline but I think we will get at least one decent season.

Pantillimon has looked pretty solid for us so was certainly worth bringing in on loan.

Karanka has brought in two players with no resale value and three who could potentially increase in value so as it stands I am not too worried. I would like to see a few more up and coming players brought in but that didn’t quite work under Warburton so maybe a mix of youth and experience...
 
the jock said:
I have confidence in karanka despite recent form.

he only had a couple of weeks in January. we saw what 1 game v Preston did. he has had a few months now. looking forward to a good summer.
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We had a glaring need in goal, defence & midfield - he addressed those issues, as well as adding a much needed captain/leader.

Sadly, a loss of form/illness & injury have meant that as soon as we tightened up defensively, we ended up then being unable to score.


Cummings, Clough, Walker, Carayol & Ward shipped out, leaving us very light on strikers.

Left back has also remained a problem.

AK knows what he needs to do and I'm certain there will be wholesale changes.
 
Basha73 said:
Colback is the player who seems to knit things together without you necessarily noticing. He also brings a bit of grit to the side. I think you would notice more when he isn’t there.

If we can get him for the right price then we should but we do have other options and there are other parts of the squad that need more work.
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Not wanted at Newcastle & Sunderland getting relegated, so hid preference of staying in the North East limits his options... Boro perhaps?

Unless he moves North of the border?
 
With the dog abuse young Brereton got on Saturday, I wouldnt be surprised if he requested a move. Absolutely shameful
 
Apollyon said:
With the dog abuse young Brereton got on Saturday, I wouldnt be surprised if he requested a move. Absolutely shameful
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People forget he is 18 & leading the line?!

Showed real nerve to score the penalty..... although, that dive for the 1st attempt to secure a penalty was embarrassing!
 
forestonourwayback said:
That's dead right. He does the simple things really well. I watched him specifically on Saturday and he covered his colleagues, tackled well and didn't give the ball away. His passing was assured.

If he's not too expensive, it's definitely from me.
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Its him or Watson to start...if we want a promotion chasing team we need to be more adventurous...with those two in the starting line up ut will be more of the same...nd if we also sign Tomlin...then we need to sign or Suarez or Salah as strikers if we want to push for the play offs...with tbose three in midfield we might not loose many...but we will not win much either...as things stand our counter attack is the worst i have ever seen...no speed no invention...average strikers will struggle in the way we play...nd will look bad thus losing motivation cause they r not scoring...
 
Our Kids Dad said:
Not wanted at Newcastle & Sunderland getting relegated, so hid preference of staying in the North East limits his options... Boro perhaps?

Unless he moves North of the border?
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I think someone like Burnley might take a look at him but yeah he will have to broaden his horizons if he wants regular game time. I would be surprised if there weren’t plenty of Champ and a few Prem sides interested though.
 
Basha73 said:
I think someone like Burnley might take a look at him but yeah he will have to broaden his horizons if he wants regular game time. I would be surprised if there weren’t plenty of Champ and a few Prem sides interested though.
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I thought it interesting on Saturday that AK took Watson off, his skipper - rather than Colback.
 
Our Kids Dad said:
I thought it interesting on Saturday that AK took Watson off, his skipper - rather than Colback.
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Maybe there was an agreement upon him signing for us in January...he came at Forest because he wanted game time...for various reasons...Colback is in the shop window at present...
 
Our Kids Dad said:
I thought it interesting on Saturday that AK took Watson off, his skipper - rather than Colback.
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Fitness? Or showing Colback how important he is to his plans?

Of all the loan players I think Colback is the one AK wants the most. From my point of view I hope he gets him.
 
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