Ward.

[factchecker]

Apollyon - 11/5/2017 16:07

factchecker - 11/5/2017 08:00

the jock - 10/5/2017 21:45

Apollyon - 10/5/2017 20:47


Osborn in particular had club foot. He also failed to take on his man about 3 million times and passed backwards instead

thank you. i said this and plummer whips out some statistic about key passes. 95% of his passes were backwards

If you like.

2.3 key passes per game puts him 7th in the entire division.

I was referring to Sundays game. I didnt see him take a player on. He tried a couple of long passes that were dreadful and passed back to Mancienne a lot

Im not criticising his season, im critiquing his performance on Sunday. I am not saying he was shit on Sunday, I am saying that on Sunday, out wide, he never took on his man, not once (as far as I recollect)

Conversely, on the other wing, that exactly what Ward did

But Osborn played left wing back on Sunday. That's not really a position where you want him to be taking players on - it's too high risk.

Ward started on the right wing, mirroring Carayol, and switched to support striker when Carayol went off. There's really no comparison between the jobs they were asked to do.

 

[Apollyon]

When on attack and the shape changes in the final third with a one on one, you dont expect the wing back to take him on? If Vaughan was the wingback maybe not but with Mancienne also dropping left and 66% of the pitch between our goal line and the ball, Ive got to question your reasoning FC. Wing back do take on players. Carayol was on the pitch 3 seconds and Jamies best work still came from wide right, particularly (as I have already pointed out) in the second half

Its only my opinion of course

 

[ozzyten10]

Those that don't see Osborn as a good footballer and the value he brings must have not watched us in our good times. I can see him play premiership with ease. He lacks sheer pace and height but I think we have Vaughans replacement already here...

 

[ozzyten10]

Man, re ward.
He single handedly got us going after a sticky 20 minutes last Sunday. He was brilliant and gives us that nasty streak we lack throughout the team.
A brilliant squad player- keep

 

[Strawberry Avenger]

Ward.

Keep.

SA.

 

[factchecker]

Apollyon - 11/5/2017 16:52

When on attack and the shape changes in the final third with a one on one, you dont expect the wing back to take him on? If Vaughan was the wingback maybe not but with Mancienne also dropping left and 66% of the pitch between our goal line and the ball, Ive got to question your reasoning FC. Wing back do take on players. Carayol was on the pitch 3 seconds and Jamies best work still came from wide right, particularly (as I have already pointed out) in the second half

Its only my opinion of course

Sure and I hope we are having a reasoned discussion?

Going past people isn't really Osborn's game - that's why he'll never be a winger per se - when he plays in wide positions, he's a left midfielder not a left winger, a crucial distinction. He doesn't have a trick or a burst of pace. Ward has the latter and is a better crosser.

The fair comparison with players beaten would be Lichaj, who was playing RWB, to Osborn's LWB - Osborn certainly offered more threat in the last third (notwithstanding Lichaj's shot over the bar early on) and was far more prepared to get into central and attacking positions.

The comparison with Ward is also unfair because almost every time Ward got the ball, he had the security of most of the Forest team behind him, so if he got tackled, the risk was low. A high proportion of Osborn's time in possession would have been with just three outfield players behind him and, if he lost the ball, a great opportunity for Ipswich to break and pull Mancienne, in particular, out of position to expose the slower and less mobile Mills and Worrall.

 

[Apollyon]

I agree, his forward passing also went awry many times and he was holding his hand up quite a bit. This was the case across the middle in fairness

 

[Old Red Fart]

Nanpantan red - 11/5/2017 15:26

When I was a kid my mother bought all my shoes from a catalogue. I ended up with a club foot!

(You have to be a certain age to get that)

I'm a certain age Nan, perhaps I'm the only one.

:15:

 

[Old Red Fart]

This thread has run its course and it looks to me as though he's worth keeping, perhaps as a squad player.
But it started me thinking, most of you lot would have played the game so how did you go when you were up against a player like this.
From my own point of view back in the days when we played 2 3 5 I was centre half and it was a position that I enjoyed. From there it was possible to see the way the game was going and at times to dictate play.
But I do remember even though I was pretty fit the only time that I pulled a muscle was when I was guesting on a Sunday and came upon this winger who was fast, very fast in fact. I spent a lot of the game trying to cover up the fact that I was a bit buggered and that this bloke was a lot like Ward. Different class of course, but the effect was the same. I seriously could have chinned him.

I'm all for keeping him.

 

[the jock]

ozzyten10 - 11/5/2017 23:59

Those that don't see Osborn as a good footballer and the value he brings must have not watched us in our good times..

we haven't had good times in 20 yrs. we just finished joint 3rd from bottom.

 

[Strawberry Avenger]

Forest have a low Psycho count. (Something a Man Utd once said to me...) We could do with a few more of Ward's type in the team. Steel. At CH, DCM and up front. One of each along the spine of the team. With any luck they'll be able to play football as well. Add that to the possession and 'attack, attack, attack' footballing ethos of the manager and Forest will finish at least mid-table next season.

I'll be interested to see what type of 4-5 players Warburton brings in.

SA. :14:

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Apollyon - 12/5/2017 07:27

I agree, his forward passing also went awry many times and he was holding his hand up quite a bit. This was the case across the middle in fairness

89% pass success rate...

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Team average was 73%, Ward was 50%, Lichaj 66%.

 

[the jock]

Calvin Plummer - 12/5/2017 14:50

Apollyon - 12/5/2017 07:27

I agree, his forward passing also went awry many times and he was holding his hand up quite a bit. This was the case across the middle in fairness

89% pass success rate...

do you have stats on how many of these were 3 yards in length and backwards?

 

[Mark2310]

Parker wasn't known for taking players on but he did same for Woan and and its the same for Osborn, perhaps taking a player on is not his top attribute but its more than adequate

He would have got regular game time at Newcastle and at Brighton and it would come as no surprise if we are subject to a bid or two from the EPL as Ben Osborn development has only been tested in a shit team, without the pressures of having to be a central figure in us dominating a game in a team where he is burdening that load he could develop even further and quicker

The fact he can play his way through a downturn in form and bounce back over not just a few games but a couple of seasons and how he applied himself when he got a public dressing from Dougie alludes to a seasoned pro in terms of attitude application and effort wrapped up in a 22 year old package with masses of potential

I can only think Eric cleaned up at the awards because Osborn is expected to achieve higher standards than most because for all the poor games (and he's had a few) he's been our best player over 46 games this season by a reasonable margin I'd say

 

[Calvin Plummer]

the jock - 12/5/2017 15:09

Calvin Plummer - 12/5/2017 14:50

Apollyon - 12/5/2017 07:27

I agree, his forward passing also went awry many times and he was holding his hand up quite a bit. This was the case across the middle in fairness

89% pass success rate...

do you have stats on how many of these were 3 yards in length and backwards?

Nope but I'm hoping even you can grasp that passing the ball successfully to a teammate is a fundamental part of football?

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Mark2310 - 12/5/2017 15:11

Parker wasn't known for taking players on but he did same for Woan and and its the same for Osborn, perhaps taking a player on is not his top attribute but its more than adequate

He would have got regular game time at Newcastle and at Brighton and it would come as no surprise if we are subject to a bid or two from the EPL as Ben Osborn development has only been tested in a shit team, without the pressures of having to be a central figure in us dominating a game in a team where he is burdening that load he could develop even further and quicker

The fact he can play his way through a downturn in form and bounce back over not just a few games but a couple of seasons and how he applied himself when he got a public dressing from Dougie alludes to a seasoned pro in terms of attitude application and effort wrapped up in a 22 year old package with masses of potential

I can only think Eric cleaned up at the awards because Osborn is expected to achieve higher standards than most because for all the poor games (and he's had a few) he's been our best player over 46 games this season by a reasonable margin I'd say

 

[the jock]

Calvin Plummer - 12/5/2017 15:17

the jock - 12/5/2017 15:09

Calvin Plummer - 12/5/2017 14:50

Apollyon - 12/5/2017 07:27

I agree, his forward passing also went awry many times and he was holding his hand up quite a bit. This was the case across the middle in fairness

89% pass success rate...

do you have stats on how many of these were 3 yards in length and backwards?

Nope but I'm hoping even you can grasp that passing the ball successfully to a teammate is a fundamental part of football?

who was it again that was made a laughing stock of on another forum?

...o ya

 

[mao tse tung]

Apollyon - 11/5/2017 16:52

When on attack and the shape changes in the final third with a one on one, you dont expect the wing back to take him on? If Vaughan was the wingback maybe not but with Mancienne also dropping left and 66% of the pitch between our goal line and the ball, Ive got to question your reasoning FC. Wing back do take on players. Carayol was on the pitch 3 seconds and Jamies best work still came from wide right, particularly (as I have already pointed out) in the second half

Its only my opinion of course

There is just one problem with that theory; we didnt play with wing backs on Sunday.

We adopted a 3 4 3 formation for pretty much all of the game.

 

[mao tse tung]

Calvin Plummer - 12/5/2017 15:17

the jock - 12/5/2017 15:09

Calvin Plummer - 12/5/2017 14:50

Apollyon - 12/5/2017 07:27

I agree, his forward passing also went awry many times and he was holding his hand up quite a bit. This was the case across the middle in fairness

89% pass success rate...

do you have stats on how many of these were 3 yards in length and backwards?

Nope but I'm hoping even you can grasp that passing the ball successfully to a teammate is a fundamental part of football?

As far as fundamentals go, its the most important one.