USA chaos | Page 6 | Vital Football

USA chaos

in_the_top_one said:
No you weren't.

You wrote this...


...in an attempt to nullify the argument and imply that this Vote Leave conservative government never promised that an additional £350m/week would be spent on the NHS as a result of brexit, and that those who believed it were stupid enough to have misinterpreted the bus.
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Just another sidestep. Still waiting to hear how sovereign we are when you need customs declarations to send goods from one part of the country to another.

Sure they hope covid will affect the general memories of everyone so no one remembers too much of the detail.
 
radfordinlondon said:
I know u can spend bitcoin online i.e. buy things but transferring it into hard cash?
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Yes. Withdraw to PayPal and drop in your bank. There is an admin cost from the exchange you use. You can just withdraw straight to your bank too. I use coinbase, but there are many. Annoyingly Coinbase has a habit of crashing during a bull.

That's the whole point of Bitcoin, it's a currency that can be used globally.
 
radfordinlondon said:
A great way to launder money tho mao, so much dirty money passing thru, cant blame banks for wanting a piece of that pie. Still yet to hear of many stories where people have taken profits. Would be expecting a lot more given how well it is doing right now. Classic pump and dump imo
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And that will be the ultimate use for the currency.

We are within a few years of being a totally cash free society; all of the people who work the Black Market; Builders, Tradesmen and Drug Dealers will need a means of carrying on avoiding the Tax man; Cyber currency will provide that.

Unless there is a means of relating Bitcoin to the Dollar, there will always be the volatility.

I take the piss out of some of the guys who play Golf in our group; there are Builders and Tilers and other wheeler and dealers - when I mention that cash is coming to its end, they used to think I was joking.

That was until they all started to get questioned when trying to deposit large amounts of cash into their accounts.

I was collared attempting to deposit £500 after a good day at the races; I had to demand the manager before they would accept the money.

He accepted it but made it clear that any further deposits of amounts like that would need to be accompanied with proof.

They are all shit scared of being accused of washing dirty money.

I cannot wait for time when some of my mates are trying to get to grips with a crypto wallet; these are people who have to get me to download fucking I tunes for them ffs
 
mao tse tung said:
I was thinking other than that.
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Governments across the globe have engaged in unprecedented money printing, the value of which has never before been seen in all recorded financial history. More than $10T was printed across the world to strengthen the traditional finance system.

Governments have been actively devaluing their currency, which is exactly what Bitcoin was built to protect against. Most people don’t think about flooding insurance, until they get flooded, then insurance firms are inundated with requests.

Bitcoin was special purpose built; it is a store of value in a world where governments and banks can’t be trusted; 2008 financial crash was a moment.

Bitcoin has been bought into focus for the world by COVID; and because of this, new market participants are buying: Institutions.

BTC offers a unique store of value that is better than gold and with higher upside potential.

These geezers have recognised Bitcoin is Gold 2.0 since Q4 last year: Fidelity, JP Morgan, Bloomberg, Deutsche Bank, Citibank, Jefferies, Blackrock and more

Buy Bitcoin. Do it now. You will not regret it.
 
in_the_top_one said:
No you weren't.

You wrote this...


...in an attempt to nullify the argument and imply that this Vote Leave conservative government never promised that an additional £350m/week would be spent on the NHS as a result of brexit, and that those who believed it were stupid enough to have misinterpreted the bus.
Click to expand...

Yes. I was answering the date question, which was not there, unlike when Gideon promise us a recession immediately following a vote to leave.
 
Strett said:
Governments across the globe have engaged in unprecedented money printing, the value of which has never before been seen in all recorded financial history. More than $10T was printed across the world to strengthen the traditional finance system.

Governments have been actively devaluing their currency, which is exactly what Bitcoin was built to protect against. Most people don’t think about flooding insurance, until they get flooded, then insurance firms are inundated with requests.

Bitcoin was special purpose built; it is a store of value in a world where governments and banks can’t be trusted; 2008 financial crash was a moment.

Bitcoin has been bought into focus for the world by COVID; and because of this, new market participants are buying: Institutions.

BTC offers a unique store of value that is better than gold and with higher upside potential.

These geezers have recognised Bitcoin is Gold 2.0 since Q4 last year: Fidelity, JP Morgan, Bloomberg, Deutsche Bank, Citibank, Jefferies, Blackrock and more

Buy Bitcoin. Do it now. You will not regret it.
Click to expand...

FYI the value has gone from $29,300 on New Years' Day to $38,200 now.
That's a 30% increase in a week.

The value of a Bitcoin in July was under $10,000.
 
Strett said:
Governments across the globe have engaged in unprecedented money printing, the value of which has never before been seen in all recorded financial history. More than $10T was printed across the world to strengthen the traditional finance system.

Governments have been actively devaluing their currency, which is exactly what Bitcoin was built to protect against. Most people don’t think about flooding insurance, until they get flooded, then insurance firms are inundated with requests.

Bitcoin was special purpose built; it is a store of value in a world where governments and banks can’t be trusted; 2008 financial crash was a moment.

Bitcoin has been bought into focus for the world by COVID; and because of this new market participants are buying: Institutions.

BTC offers a unique store of value that is better than gold and with higher upside potential.

These geezers have recognised Bitcoin is Gold 2.0 since Q4 last year: Fidelity, JP Morgan, Bloomberg, Deutsche Bank, Citibank, Jefferies, Blackrock and more

But Bitcoin. Do it now. You will not regret it.
Click to expand...

You start off good but wilt very quickly

The actual reason Nakamoto designed Bitcoin was for it to be a Trust-less cash system which by passed the third party intermediaries - intermediaries like:

"Fidelity, JP Morgan, Bloomberg, Deutsche Bank, Citibank, Jefferies, Blackrock and more"

Bitcoin was not designed to be a hedge against anything; claiming that it was invented to protect against devaluation and the vagaries of Currency fluctuations is total Horse shit.

To describe it a form of insurance is criminally insane.

For something to act as a hedge or insurance it has to have a value; to determine how much a Bitcoin is really worth it would need to linked to other Currencies so that there is a point of reference to determine the value - that is the very thing Nakamoto did not want to happen.

All you have at the moment is a stand alone Currency which rises or falls on a whim and the problem of volatility still remains.

Since it’s an intangible asset with limited supply (only 21 million Bitcoins can be mined), its market works on pure speculation and investor sentiment. Its value is what the market perceives it to be, and unlike other tangible asset that hold its value, the chances of Bitcoin coming down rapidly are significantly HIGH.
 
mao tse tung said:
You start off good but wilt very quickly

The actual reason Nakamoto designed Bitcoin was for it to be a Trust-less cash system which by passed the third party intermediaries - intermediaries like:

"Fidelity, JP Morgan, Bloomberg, Deutsche Bank, Citibank, Jefferies, Blackrock and more"

Bitcoin was not designed to be a hedge against anything; claiming that it was invented to protect against devaluation and the vagaries of Currency fluctuations is total Horse shit.

To describe it a form of insurance is criminally insane.

For something to act as a hedge or insurance it has to have a value; to determine how much a Bitcoin is really worth it would need to linked to other Currencies so that there is a point of reference to determine the value - that is the very thing Nakamoto did not want to happen.

All you have at the moment is a stand alone Currency which rises or falls on a whim and the problem of volatility still remains.

Since it’s an intangible asset with limited supply (only 21 million Bitcoins can be mined), its market works on pure speculation and investor sentiment. Its value is what the market perceives it to be, and unlike another tangible asset that holds its value, the chances of Bitcoin coming down rapidly is significantly HIGH.
Click to expand...

I wasn't comparing it to insurance, I was comparing the attitude to it.
 
Can't argue with the logic and I'm sure many would advise against investing in BTC, there will also be many who state it's worth investing as the volatility is conducive to big gains, albeit it's not relatively volatile at the moment. (Altcoins are, which is where shorting can be good fun).

Many will advise against any form of gambling and again it's a personal decision.
 
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Strett said:
Can't argue with the logic and I'm sure many would advise against investing in BTC, there will also be many who state it's worth investing as the volatility is conducive to big gains, albeit it's not relatively volatile at the moment. (Altcoins are, which is where shoring can be good fun).

Many will advise against any form of gambling and again it's a personal decision.
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There is nothing wrong with gambling providing you eliminate most of the risk or as much as is possible.

Knowing when and where to bet is important, but none more so than knowing when to walk away
 
mao tse tung said:
How do you value it?

If you cannot value an asset you are guessing; it really is that simple.

It is not as if there is any correlation between Bitcoin and any other asset; it is not like Gold for instance, and the relationship that has with the Dollar.

I am all for new forms of investment, and not averse to risk, but it has to be a calculated risk; for everything else there is Euromillions
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You're confusing currency with commodity...

I don't really understand your issue, it satisfies just about every requirement for currency (not commodity) and generally far more effectively than traditional money - which hasn't been backed by gold for a long time:

Scarcity: Supply decreases of new Bitcoin by 50% every 4 years, there are around 18m in circulation, 19m in 2 years and isn't at the behest of governments or banks so circulation increases leading to devaluation are far less likely. Decentralised means it's free from whim and control.

Divisibility: Bitcoin is divisible up to 8 decimal places, again far superior to traditional currency.

Utility: the beauty of blockchain technology means that there is no need for trust, again completely different and superior to traditional currency which collapses without it.

Transportability: Again shits all over traditional currency, it's virtually instantaneous no matter the size of the transaction.

Durability: Again as it has no physical property it's can't be lost or damaged. Crypto once more is superior (assuming you don't forget the key to your wallet).

Counterfeiting: Guess what Bitcoin wins here too, in theory a 51% attack is possible in practice the chances are vanishgly small.

As Bitcoin continues to gain traction (and fear from governments) it will only become more powerful and ubiquitous. Undoubtedly it still has the speculative risks of a bubble but that is changing. Draw a line through the value of Bitcoin over time, ignore the peaks and troughs and it's only heading in one direction.
 
Strett said:
Yes. I was answering the date question, which was not there, unlike when Gideon promise us a recession immediately following a vote to leave.
Click to expand...
A he didn't promise anything, it was a prediction
B he's an idiot
C This, in contrast, was a pledge. An impossible pledge based on a simple lie which they knew, were warned about, but continued to peddle regardless. These people are now the prime minister and cabinet.

This behaviour is irresponsible and leads to trouble.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
You're confusing currency with commodity...

I don't really understand your issue, it satisfies just about every requirement for currency (not commodity) and generally far more effectively than traditional money - which hasn't been backed by gold for a long time:

Scarcity: Supply decreases of new Bitcoin by 50% every 4 years, there are around 18m in circulation, 19m in 2 years and isn't at the behest of governments or banks so circulation increases leading to devaluation are far less likely. Decentralised means it's free from whim and control.

Divisibility: Bitcoin is divisible up to 8 decimal places, again far superior to traditional currency.

Utility: the beauty of blockchain technology means that there is no need for trust, again completely different and superior to traditional currency which collapses without it.

Transportability: Again shits all over traditional currency, it's virtually instantaneous no matter the size of the transaction.

Durability: Again as it has no physical property it's can't be lost or damaged. Crypto once more is superior (assuming you don't forget the key to your wallet).

Counterfeiting: Guess what Bitcoin wins here too, in theory a 51% attack is possible in practice the chances are vanishgly small.

As Bitcoin continues to gain traction (and fear from governments) it will only become more powerful and ubiquitous. Undoubtedly it still has the speculative risks of a bubble but that is changing. Draw a line through the value of Bitcoin over time, ignore the peaks and troughs and it's only heading in one direction.
Click to expand...

Firstly I am not questioning whether Bitcoin will have longevity or if it will come into common usage; I am certain it will

I'm am questioning its value and stability

If what you say above is true, then why the volatility?

If it had all of those attributes that you claim it would be the most stable of assets, but it is not.

And do not confuse Bitcoin with the Platform it sits on; Blockchain has untold potential

Gold has not been directly linked to the Dollar since the 70's but a link remains nonthethless; the value of Gold is predictable when compared to the performance of the Dollar.

The fact that the likes of Morgan Stanley and the rest of the vultures are breaking their necks to promote Bitcoin should be the biggest warning of the lot.

I understand the attraction of Bitcoin particularly amongst the younger generation, and the middle aged who think they are trend setting, but it will end in tears.

By all means educate me on how to value the currency, if you know how, which I doubt.

No one in their right mind would exclude the peaks and troughs when attempting to gauge pricing or momentum; without those peaks and troughs there is no context, it is just a line.

How can tried and tested technical indicators be constantly confounded by one asset alone?

Why do instruments like Bollinger Bands, and MACD and RSI and SAR and Stochastic and Fibonacci Retracement get it right on all asset classes bar one?

There is one golden rule you should be aware of were investments are concerned; the more you pay for something the less inclined you are to think it is a fake.
 
in_the_top_one said:
A he didn't promise anything, it was a prediction
B he's an idiot
C This, in contrast, was a pledge. An impossible pledge based on a simple lie which they knew, were warned about, but continued to peddle regardless. These people are now the prime minister and cabinet.

This behaviour is irresponsible and leads to trouble.
Click to expand...

A He was the chancellor at the time and his position demands respect for the markets and, ergo any predictions he/she makes

B He is clearly very clever, but he's an idiot because...

C It was not a 'pledge' it was a suggestion for what the money the UK sends to the EU, could be spent on. The value was incorrect, but I would wager that anyone who used that as the basis for voting leave ,would have also done so it the correct value would have been used.

Anyway, we've been here before. We have moved onto Crypto, so get with the programme, sister.
 
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mao tse tung said:
Firstly I am not questioning whether Bitcoin will have longevity or if it will come into common usage; I am certain it will

I'm am questioning its value and stability

If what you say above is true, then why the volatility?

If it had all of those attributes that you claim it would be the most stable of assets, but it is not.

And do not confuse Bitcoin with the Platform it sits on; Blockchain has untold potential

Gold has not been directly linked to the Dollar since the 70's but a link remains nonthethless; the value of Gold is predictable when compared to the performance of the Dollar.

The fact that the likes of Morgan Stanley and the rest of the vultures are breaking their necks to promote Bitcoin should be the biggest warning of the lot.

I understand the attraction of Bitcoin particularly amongst the younger generation, and the middle aged who think they are trend setting, but it will end in tears.

By all means educate me on how to value the currency, if you know how, which I doubt.

No one in their right mind would exclude the peaks and troughs when attempting to gauge pricing or momentum; without those peaks and troughs there is no context, it is just a line.

How can tried and tested technical indicators be constantly confounded by one asset alone?

Why do instruments like Bollinger Bands, and MACD and RSI and SAR and Stochastic and Fibonacci Retracement get it right on all asset classes bar one?

There is one golden rule you should be aware of were investments are concerned; the more you pay for something the less inclined you are to think it is a fake.
Click to expand...

Gold does not back fiat currency, whether it did or not 50 years ago is irrelevant.

Which of those fundamental rules of currency am I wrong on?

Agreed on Blockchain which is as I've already said one of the clear advantages over fiat.

I've already acknowledged it is still currently prone to bubble, but volatility doesn't mean you ignore long term trends.

You value it by how the market values it, appreciate that's difficult for a luddite to wrap their head around as there is no balance sheet but otherwise it's a pretty traditional method:

Demand
Scarcity
Cost to Mine
Competition (difficult to know if we are discussing BC or crypto in general)
Ubiquity - the more it's accepted, the more it's worth.

Surely you've bought good before that are valued at more than just their component worth?
 
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