US religious cult at Scottish school | Page 6 | Vital Football

US religious cult at Scottish school

Green Tea - 8/9/2013 15:27

You said you classed yourself closely to Humanism..In the philosophical sense this is the same as materialism.
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Get lost is it. You need a new Dictionary.

You have some imaginary concept that your views make you more moral, more compassionate and less materialistic. I know it's s defense mechanism, in the face of insurmountable evidence, but that is no excuse. If you want to see real materialism, then look no further than your own Religion.

The British Humanist Association defines Humanism as-

• trusts to the scientific method when it comes to understanding how the universe works and rejects the idea of the supernatural (and is therefore an atheist or agnostic)
• makes their ethical decisions based on reason, empathy, and a concern for human beings and other sentient animals
• believes that, in the absence of an afterlife and any discernible purpose to the universe, human beings can act to give their own lives meaning by seeking happiness in this life and helping others to do the same.


Nothing, not a jot, about possessions, money or wealth.

The only person that has made that connection is you, and quite frankly, it's what we've come to expect. A load of claptrap without one single piece of solid evidence to back it up.
 
kefkat - 8/9/2013 14:32

Green Tea - 8/9/2013 13:46

No because life is a masterpiece..= "a work of outstanding artistry, skill, or workmanship."

its all very well teaching that maybe it isnt..But I still think the child needs to be shown the other side of the coin. And thus should leave school with a mind that they can make up themselves.

at present we are heading towards materialism..Which is extremely unfair if all existence does have a creator isnt it? We should not be allowed to have the power to have children leaving school with just a one sided view...And that the only other side can come from the home...- the creationists are fighting this. If they dont stand up, who is - as the life we know just sadly turns into materialism?
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At present GT this life is heading for materialism??????? It always has been like that relative to the day and age we live in. You will know the 10 commandments, however do you understand them completely?


The 10 commandments

The Ten Commandments

You shall have no other Gods but me. (Means don't put material items for example first as they are temporal)

You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it. (As no 1)
You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God. (Don’t swear or blaspheme or take in vain the name of your creator as you choose to believe)

You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy. (All of life belongs to the creator as you understand. Cherish it)

Respect your father and mother. (Pretty obvious)

You must not kill. (Pretty obvious and includes murder by character assassination)

You must not commit adultery. (Obvious)

You must not steal. (Does not just include the stereo-type. It includes the way you spend your time, or take time say by phoning in sick when you aren't. It is all stealing)

you must not give false evidence against your neighbour. (Don’t lie and be honest if you have)

You must not be envious of your neighbour's goods. You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbour. (Anybody stuff male female etc. pretty obvious)

Now to make this clear they couldn't have been written in half measures avail us nothing. They could not say 'do not still but it is O.K if you’re a single Mom with no nappies.

They are the perfect attainment. Progress not perfection.

All of those commandments in 1 way or another are about materialism. Not having false idols/false God/s such as in materialism. Not converting your neighbors property/ not stealing etc?

................................................................

I do agree with your 1st sentence though. Life is a masterpiece-yes! That is why I can not accept that all this is by chance and randomness.

Science & faith work together. Without each other they don't make sense

Plus it is how both sides of the coin are teached which is given to persona of the person wanting to teach it.

It has to be taught in a appropriate non biased way leave open mindedness. That is how the majority of teachers do teach.

There is always a few who don't. Those that make the headlines
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thats all the religions fecked then as think how many disobey the rules they are meant to follow :17:
 
The word materialist also means;

-The term ‘materialist’ also denotes people who believe that a proper understanding of human beings and the world should not make reference to immaterial souls and supernatural gods – to things other than the physical.

-In this sense, humanists are materialists – but note that this is in a very technical philosophical sense! Even within this meaning, some humanists believe that human beings cannot be ultimately understood in the terms used by scientists. After all, are there any scientific laws that use concepts such as ‘promising’ and ‘awe’?

Still, even this position rejects the idea that there need be any reference to souls or gods.

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Im not using materialism in the sense of greed. - yet in the philosophic sense that nothing in existence came from the supernatural.
 
Apologies - I have just read back a few posts properly. You are referring to materialism in the Physical sense, not the Economic one.

You did explain it, but I missed it.

In which case I agree in part, and sorry for getting angry about it. The more accurate term today is Physicalism, which allows a much wider definition. Perhaps we could use this from now on?
 
I will get that link but this one might explain it better;

http://www.bcp.psych.ualberta.ca/~mike/Pearl_Street/Dictionary/contents/M/material.html
 
heh

Link: https://sphotos-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1174746_385620174896982_1400264118_n.jpg
 

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Badge LOL read it properly. The last few lines sum it up. No one can keep them perfectly LOL.
 
CDX_EIRE - 8/9/2013 16:18

heh

Link: https://sphotos-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1174746_385620174896982_1400264118_n.jpg
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Think I am safe the CDX from being a fundi :17:
 
kefkat - 8/9/2013 17:07

Think I am safe the CDX from being a fundi :17:
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The pic of the day thread on another forum was a goldmine today for religious stuff for some reason...

Fear might need to merge these two threads...
 
kefkat - 8/9/2013 17:07

CDX_EIRE - 8/9/2013 16:18

heh

Link: https://sphotos-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1174746_385620174896982_1400264118_n.jpg
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Think I am safe the CDX from being a fundi :17:
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----------------------------------------------------

Safe? I wouldnt worry Kat, it dosnt stop one living a normal life lol..

I hate the word Fundamentalist - sounds creepy, however it is just a word..And if society want to use it then fine...For a start, if im classed as a fundamentalist (although it certainly isnt something I see myself as) I certainly dont push my beliefs onto anyone and I live a pretty private life. My children are extremely bright for their ages and very well mannered and spoken. Im very proud of my family, they are happy and we all live a great life.

They say the five points to be classed as a Christian fundamentalist are;

- Biblical inspiration and the inerrancy of scripture as a result of this
-Virgin birth of Jesus
-Belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin
-Bodily resurrection of Jesus
-Historical reality of the miracles of Jesus

Do I believe in all the above? Yes - therefore society will class me as a Christian fundamentalist. Yet I just see myself as someone that believes in scripture and God.

I will say, that I believe in the bible literally - although the way it speaks to me is that you dont have to act out all it's writings. I find religions that act out as though they are a Jesus Christ themselves, or some kind of divine power - very confusing.
The bible speaks to me as the story of our existence from start to end. How we came about, the way we live and behave(and why) and then where we are going after death.

It would be similar to reading a true account of world war II - you can take it literally as truth, ie its exact words..But you wouldnt act out the role of a Nazi general running a concentration camp. You are old and intelligent enough to understand that you are reading a past true account of a past event - not role playing!
 
Tel Aviv University archaeologist Ze'ev Herzog wrote in the Haaretz newspaper:

This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai.
 
Thing is Heath, for every archaeologist that says one thing against the bible, you can find 3 that are for it.
Would it surprise you that some great minds of today believe in the creation story literally? Why is that, if the scientific evidence against it is so strong?

Would you risk your career as a top scientist in your field (if you were one) to say the creation story has a argument, if it dosnt? Some of these guys lose all credibility in their chosen field and endure quite a bit of verbal abuse. - Why?

Someone do a paper on these guys and find out why such great minds are just NOT convinced with the scientific theory of how we came about...Fact is they are not swallowing it! Loads do and you will have to ask yourself to get on in your career are you going to be one that stands up, or are you going to take the easy way and just follow your peers?
 
The basis of the whole thing is Moses in the Desert, escaping the Egyptians. There is no evidence whatsoever of this, in fact just the contrary. And so, the whole house of cards comes crashing down!!! :119:

And I wouldn't call the Scientists you talk of as "great minds". That they call themselves Scientists at all is an insult to Science. They are dishonest and corrupt.
 
Green Tea - 8/9/2013 18:33

I will say, that I believe in the bible literally - although the way it speaks to me is that you dont have to act out all it's writings. I find religions that act out as though they are a Jesus Christ themselves, or some kind of divine power - very confusing.
The bible speaks to me as the story of our existence from start to end. How we came about, the way we live and behave(and why) and then where we are going after death.

It would be similar to reading a true account of world war II - you can take it literally as truth, ie its exact words..But you wouldnt act out the role of a Nazi general running a concentration camp. You are old and intelligent enough to understand that you are reading a past true account of a past event - not role playing!
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Do you read the bible often GT? If not have you read it many times from start to finish? I actually have one in my room I got when I was in school never been bothered to read it...
Also do you teach the creationist science to your kids or do they look for themselves?

Im just wondering do you deal with the likes of this outside the internet like say your kid questions the teacher then you end having a debate with the teacher... Probably not but it would put a smile on my face if it did just thinking of the teacher trying to be nice with you but thinking you're crazy...
 
Reading the bible from start to finish and then understanding it, would be near on impossible. The books are not in chronological order, the writers have differing personalities and come from various backgrounds. Yes ive read it and questioned it many, many times.

No my kids do not believe in a young Earth, from what im aware anyway. And im lucky enough that they are taught in schools where religion plays a huge role. I think it helps them - the young earth thing is massive to you but its not that massive in my everyday life.. I dont go into schools and say, how dare you tell my kids the Earth is billions of years old. - but then again the school dosnt teach that anyway.

I think its good and healthy to question, search etc - my kids do this and find their own paths.
 
GT I am glad to hear you don't push your beliefs on your children for example. Some of the things you say come over as fundamentalist. Though you certainly fit the creationist model.

I think there is an overlap in the majority of us as to what we would fall under in an area of faith or non-faith. I know people who I would call fundamentalist non-believers.

Me I am just unconventional which suits me fine, as that is something I am, an unconventional Christian, an interpretational Christian. To thine own self be true. Yes as my spiritual life grows within my faith, I do shift some of my thinking as that is what spiritual growth is about
 
This link is interesting: I do not agree with all he says on The Bible, I.E about only Christians being saved. I haven't read through it all yet. I have come to other stuff too I don't agree with. However in the beauty of everything including Christianity people are unique in thought processes. He goes through in what I have read so far alot of ideas

I thought I would post the link as I think Heath will certainly be interested in it as well as others and you too GT. Good few days reading in this, depending how much time you have to spare, to read it.

It basically talks of the Christian who believes in evolution. Surprisingly even Pope John Paul II said evolution must be seriously considered. There is some good material in this, whether you agree with it all, or not.

Stick with it, even in the bits that you are eh WTF. There is some interesting thoughts to be digested. It is all learning's and discussion

http://www.theistic-evolution.com/theisticevolution.html
 
HeathfieldRoad1874 - 8/9/2013 19:24

Tel Aviv University archaeologist Ze'ev Herzog wrote in the Haaretz newspaper:

This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai.
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Indeed. Pretty much every archeological investigation has now ceased with no evidence of a slave uprising or inhabitation of 600,000 people of the desert. Of course the 600,000 we read in our english texts depends on how you read the Hebrew! The words used could also be translates "the entire family" in several places.

There is of course president in almost every culture for a 'conquest myth' even the Basques have one which allows them to lay claim to the areas in France and Spain that they do! However in every case there is doubt because the accounts also have a function of saying 'we're bugger and better than you'.

There is evidence that what little historicity there is in the story, may have been based on the Hyskos expulsion which is noted in the writings of Josephus, but it was retooled in the Exodus story to create a mythic history of conquest for the Israelites, and (quite likely) to rebuild a sense of national identity in the wake of the Babylonian exile.

Of course maybe we could also say that some from the Hyskos expulsion ended up in Caanan and settled there, and so an identity grew there. But like the creation myths, a literal interpretation of the exodus holds very little 'truth'.

This is a helpful non technical summary of why this is so from Wikipedia.

"The earliest non-Biblical account of the Exodus is in the writings of the Greek author Hecataeus of Abdera: the Egyptians blame a plague on foreigners and expel them from the country, whereupon Moses, their leader, takes them to Canaan, where he founds the city of Jerusalem.[42] Hecataeus wrote in the late 4th century BCE, but the passage is quite possibly an insertion made in the mid-1st century BCE.[43] The most famous is by the Egyptian historian Manetho (3rd century BCE), known from two quotations by the 1st century CE Jewish historian Josephus. In the first, Manetho describes the Hyksos, their lowly origins in Asia, their dominion over and expulsion from Egypt, and their subsequent foundation of the city of Jerusalem and its temple. Josephus (not Manetho) identifies the Hyksos with the Jews.[44] In the second story Manetho tells how 80,000 lepers and other "impure people," led by a priest named Osarseph, join forces with the former Hyksos, now living in Jerusalem, to take over Egypt. They wreak havoc until eventually the pharaoh and his son chase them out to the borders of Syria, where Osarseph gives the lepers a law-code and changes his name to Moses.[45] Manetho differs from the other writers in describing his renegades as Egyptians rather than Jews, and in using a name other than Moses for their leader,[42] although the identification of Osarseph with Moses may be a later addition.[45][46]"
 
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